[FooHentai]

I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simply never murder anyone.

Honestly, bravo. He's at the point in his career that he really doesn't need to prove anything, and as such is uniquely positioned to make this kind of statement with at least a vague chance that it will be heeded.

[WastingMyTime89]

> I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good.

That’s absolutely not the rule and neither you nor Carlsen get to decide that.

There is no permissiveness here. Hans has played according to the rule of the tournament. There is no evidence of cheating. That’s it.

Unless you have proof of what you are advancing, you are just bullying a teenager. The conduct of the chess community has a whole has been nothing short of shameful in this instance.

[KingMob]

He's admitted to cheating in the past. The Bayesian priors for him currently cheating are not the same as for other people.

[Nokinside]

> That’s absolutely not the rule and neither you nor Carlsen get to decide that.

That should be the rule.

Everyone can help to make this new norm by refusing to play against players who have cheated. Carlsen is helping to make it the rule.

[FooHentai]

Does any of what you just said not also apply to Carlsen?

[bayindirh]

> There is no permissiveness here.

Shall we permissive against people who cheated, or who admitted to have cheated?

If this is permissible, or even acceptable why we have a word for this?

Note: Consider this as a meta question. This is not related to Hans or Magnus, but to humans at large, incl. me and you.

[Tenoke]

The only confirmed cheating we know is online, in a no prize money setting at ages 12 and 16. This is hardly sufficent for banning him for life in FIDE OTB Tournaments as an adult if they don't have other evidence. It's like banning a sports player for life for cheating in high school games or an academic for cheating in their math test as a kid.

[xalco]

So... From now on, all teenagers between 12 and 16 should be allowed to cheat in online no prize money settings...

[jpgvm]

A good counter-example is s1mple from the Counterstrike: Global Offensive scene. He was known to have cheated when he was a teenager but went on a redemption arc that has seen him become not only the statistically best player to ever play the game but also one of its most mature and respected players. All the while under intense scrutiny for cheating because of his history.

I don't think one and out forever is really the way to deal with cheating in teenagers, they are yet to fully understand the consequences of their actions or how to deal with pressure/emotions - especially in online settings when the temptation is higher and the fallout less obvious.

[kevinmchugh]

It probably is also not a standard that can be practically upheld in an online setting. In both of these cases as I understand them, the cheater did so on their main account. If they'd created a new account to cheat on, would people have known?

[fileeditview]

I am absolutely not decided on the issue but you should always remember that the "guy" caught cheating was 12 and 16 when it happened.. I mean he was a kid. Kids do stupid things. So we should not overrate what happened in the past.

[willsmith72]

The "kid" is only 19. If this were 10 years ago I would get your point, but "kids do stupid things" doesn't apply when he already admitted to doing it only 3 years ago as a 16 year old.

[linkdd]

> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good

Yeah, justice!

If you steal something once in your life, straight to jail, for good. If you have a speeding ticket, no more driver license for the rest of your life.

After all, people don't change, any mistake in life should be fatal and destroy your entire future.

</sarcasm>

[manojlds]

Great comparisons. Lance Armstrong has not been allowed to cycle to the grocery store a well

[Nokinside]

In some areas of life the rule is more strict. Even a lowlife should be allowed to seek jobs etc.

But lowlife should not be allowed in professional chess, and professional chess is not place for second changes.

[stonogo]

Chess is a game.

[Scarblac]

But online blitz chess when you're 16 is not "part of a professional competitive career".

[6nf]

Chess.com put out a statement refuting Hans' claims that he only cheated twice and Hans has not responded yet.

[vintermann]

It can be. Being professional doesn't mean being good, it means doing something for money, and there is money at stake in some online blitz tournaments.

One important question is whether Niemann has cheated in tournaments with prizes or "only" in ladder-type games (he's only admitted to the latter as I understand)

[Andrew_nenakhov]

> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good.

No, you shouldn't. People make mistakes, especially children. It is simply immoral to close any path to redemption for them. Also, anti-cheating measures on second-rate chess site chess.com are known to produce a lot of false positives. Niemann was never caught cheating in over the board games, so people trying to kill his career because of Carlsen's unspoken allegations should be ashamed of themselves.