What the hell Nvidia. Post EVGA breakup, this is a bad look. Seems like they're setting MSRP ridiculously high in order to undercut board partners down the line.
It’s funny, I just had to have 40 feet of wood fence replaced and paid ~4K for parts and 1 day of labor. They also took away the old fence. My point, electronics are cheap. I know this point will not be received well though.
As a side-note, the X-Box series S was the cheapest and most effective way for me to buy a 4K-UHD blu-ray player.
I did try to do some CUDA based AI rendering stuff on my 2080S but 8GB didn't seem to be enough.
Its weird to comprehend the 'stretching' of technology advance over time as I age, especially on the value side. There hasn't ever been the same 'feel' for me from the first leap of moving from software rendered Quake to a 3D-card - despite the various advances since, although I remember bump-mapping as another massive leap.
It's totally unfair in some ways. As an example the control you have over lighting a scene (either in a game or something you're rendering) is way beyond what multi-million dollar studios were using in my younger years.
What happens to society/reality when technology capable of producing video content indistinguishable from reality is affordable to many? Its already happening. Its going to become more commonplace.
The problem of 'truth' becomes massive - is the thing presented to you something that actually happened or was it fabricated?
I completely agree. In the past I dropped a ton of money on gaming rig hardware that aged like milk. With a console you get the advantage of exclusives, majority of PC game releases, and a longer upgrade cycle versus a gaming rig. If you own a PS5, you got the PS VR2 coming out soon at a decent price point. If you own an Xbox, add in the amazing value of the Xbox Games Pass and I just don't see the need to be subsidising Hardware Manufacturers' bottom lines anymore.
Raising MSRP doesn't undercut board partners, it allows board partners to charge more which is what they want.
Personally I think what they're doing is maximizing launch profit without totally crashing the 30x0 market which has a supply glut, something else board partners are worried about.
I'm really not sure why you think this is bad for board partners - you haven't really explained your reasoning and what you did say doesn't make much sense. This is all positive for board partners. It's the cheap founders edition cards that undercut board partners.
> Raising MSRP doesn't undercut board partners, it allows board partners to charge more which is what they want.
My understanding regarding the EVGA debacle is that Nvidia sets really high MSRP along with charging for the chips & giving themselves a headstart and the partners can't go above the MSRP then Nvidia comes in and slashes prices that only Nvidia can compete at (since they can give themselves discounts on the chips along with all of the other advantages they have).
What board partners likely want is either: Nvidia is time-limited to a few months with Founder Cards or Nvidia allows them to sell cards for more money and Nvidia can't make any card except Founder.
GPU prices will trend towards market prices either way. I'd rather them somewhat overshoot MSRP rather than undershoot, which is what happened with the 30-series GPU. It's not fair that scalpers were getting rich while EVGA was operating at a loss.
I am pretty sure EVGA sold directly to miners, likely at a good margin: my day-one EVGA queue was never fullfilled, while miners showed warehouses full of EVGA cards.
While I expected about $1600 for 4090, for the other two, whose GPU sizes are 9.5/16 and 7.5/16 of the top model, I expected prices proportional to their sizes, i.e. about $1000 and $700.
However, NVIDIA added $200 for both smaller models making them $1200 and $900.
It is debatable whether 4090 is worth $1600, but in comparison with it the two 4080 models are grossly overpriced, taking into account their GPU sizes and their 2/3 and 1/2 memory sizes.
They will price the 4080 at $1200 to push people over the line for the 4090. After all, the performance difference for "just" $400 is quite significant.
They are probably working towards cleaning out the 30 series stock given that crypto demand is dying off. It takes a lot to put 3060 prices on a marketing slide for 40 series.
That sort of make sense... I was thinking of upgrading when the 40 series came out, but looking at these prices, it makes the 30 series look a lot more affordable for what I need, even if it's less performant.
Not with even 50% of the FLOPS. The 4090 won't be the best perf/$, but considering how much perf/$ and perf/watt you can get these days, I think it's pretty hard to complain that these are available. If you don't play games, get a Ryzen 5 7600X for $300 with an iGPU more than capable of high-quality desktop computing.
You can also get a brand new laptop for $130 right now https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-14-0-laptop-intel-celeron-... , which is $57.37 in 1990 dollars. (according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ ). The high-end is more expensive than ever, and the low-end is cheaper than ever. The Apple Lisa was $10k in 1983, which is about $30k today. You can get a Boxx Apex with multiple $10k Quadro GV100 GPUs and 8TB SSDs for that money today, or roughly a dozen high-end (but not TOTL) gaming PCs.
Yea this is insane. Screw Nvidia and wait for the second hand market to hit rock bottom (I would estimate this will start to happen in 1 to 3 months) and buy a used card for dirt cheap.
they're setting prices high (and delaying the launch of the mainstream and lower-tier cards) because they have huge stockpiles of Ampere chips they need to burn through. Launch the stuff at the top to get the sales from the whales (VR, enthusiast gaming, etc) who are willing to pay for performance and delay the lower cards that would compete with your ampere inventory.
It's the Turing strategy all over again - when you have a stockpile of older cards, you don't make your new cards too attractive. And yes, they also have a big TSMC allocation too - but they gotta get rid of the Ampere stuff first, the longer it sits the more it will have to be marked down, launching new cards that obsolete the inventory they're trying to sell would just make things worse.
AMD is going to be doing the same thing - they pushed back the midrange Navi 33 and will be launching only the high-end Navi 31 until that miner inventory burns through a bit. Similarly to NVIDIA, that likely implies they'll be launching at a high price, they'll undercut NVIDIA by $100 or $200 or something and take the margins but they're not gonna be the heroes of the $700 market either.
---
The EVGA thing is a tempest in a teapot though, the losses he's talking about are something that's happened in the last month (he supposedly decided to quit back at the start of the year) and not representative of the (large, 10x normal) margins that board partners have been making in recent years. I personally didn't see much evidence of "price caps" with partner's first-party storefronts selling 3080s at 2.50-3x FE MSRP either.
And yes, jensen is an asshole and being a partner is a low-margin business, everyone already knows that.
EVGA is losing money because of some of it's CEO's ridiculous prestige side-projects (custom motherboards, enthusiast monitors, video capture cards that turned out to be falsely advertised, pcie sound cards, etc) and generous warranty support (long and transferable with absurdly cheap extended warranties) coupled with a higher-than-average failure rate (because they contract out assembly) and a generally lower-than-industry margin (because they contract out assembly) and they're just being drama queens on the way out.
Especially when they've been have lower than expected revenue because of the crypto crash. You'd think that they would drop the price a bit to entice the people who've been waiting for GPU prices to drop to buy the new version.
Philip-J-Fry|3 years ago
Reminder that the 780ti was $700. The top spec SKU.
Nvidia has took the GPU shortage and now set that pricing as the norm. And people will eat it up like suckers.
bigmattystyles|3 years ago
tromp|3 years ago
Pricing can't be insane and causing huge demand at the same time...
quacker|3 years ago
$700 USD in 2013 is worth $900 USD in 2022. Almost a decade of inflation.
Also, the GTX Titan was $1000 USD msrp, which was essentially the 780Ti with double the memory.
postalrat|3 years ago
behnamoh|3 years ago
segadreamcast|3 years ago
partomniscient|3 years ago
I did try to do some CUDA based AI rendering stuff on my 2080S but 8GB didn't seem to be enough.
Its weird to comprehend the 'stretching' of technology advance over time as I age, especially on the value side. There hasn't ever been the same 'feel' for me from the first leap of moving from software rendered Quake to a 3D-card - despite the various advances since, although I remember bump-mapping as another massive leap.
It's totally unfair in some ways. As an example the control you have over lighting a scene (either in a game or something you're rendering) is way beyond what multi-million dollar studios were using in my younger years.
What happens to society/reality when technology capable of producing video content indistinguishable from reality is affordable to many? Its already happening. Its going to become more commonplace.
The problem of 'truth' becomes massive - is the thing presented to you something that actually happened or was it fabricated?
capableweb|3 years ago
icu|3 years ago
jgtrosh|3 years ago
cma|3 years ago
honkycat|3 years ago
apazzolini|3 years ago
mechanical_bear|3 years ago
LegitShady|3 years ago
Personally I think what they're doing is maximizing launch profit without totally crashing the 30x0 market which has a supply glut, something else board partners are worried about.
I'm really not sure why you think this is bad for board partners - you haven't really explained your reasoning and what you did say doesn't make much sense. This is all positive for board partners. It's the cheap founders edition cards that undercut board partners.
madamelic|3 years ago
My understanding regarding the EVGA debacle is that Nvidia sets really high MSRP along with charging for the chips & giving themselves a headstart and the partners can't go above the MSRP then Nvidia comes in and slashes prices that only Nvidia can compete at (since they can give themselves discounts on the chips along with all of the other advantages they have).
What board partners likely want is either: Nvidia is time-limited to a few months with Founder Cards or Nvidia allows them to sell cards for more money and Nvidia can't make any card except Founder.
Aunche|3 years ago
coolspot|3 years ago
ls612|3 years ago
terafo|3 years ago
Philip-J-Fry|3 years ago
Nokinside|3 years ago
3090 is still just fine and generates profits.
The price is right if you sell all you produce. Empty shelves means you charge too little.
adrian_b|3 years ago
However, NVIDIA added $200 for both smaller models making them $1200 and $900.
It is debatable whether 4090 is worth $1600, but in comparison with it the two 4080 models are grossly overpriced, taking into account their GPU sizes and their 2/3 and 1/2 memory sizes.
Philip-J-Fry|3 years ago
omegalulw|3 years ago
sheepybloke|3 years ago
mnd999|3 years ago
seanp2k2|3 years ago
Not with even 50% of the FLOPS. The 4090 won't be the best perf/$, but considering how much perf/$ and perf/watt you can get these days, I think it's pretty hard to complain that these are available. If you don't play games, get a Ryzen 5 7600X for $300 with an iGPU more than capable of high-quality desktop computing.
You can also get a brand new laptop for $130 right now https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-14-0-laptop-intel-celeron-... , which is $57.37 in 1990 dollars. (according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ ). The high-end is more expensive than ever, and the low-end is cheaper than ever. The Apple Lisa was $10k in 1983, which is about $30k today. You can get a Boxx Apex with multiple $10k Quadro GV100 GPUs and 8TB SSDs for that money today, or roughly a dozen high-end (but not TOTL) gaming PCs.
Melatonic|3 years ago
paulmd|3 years ago
It's the Turing strategy all over again - when you have a stockpile of older cards, you don't make your new cards too attractive. And yes, they also have a big TSMC allocation too - but they gotta get rid of the Ampere stuff first, the longer it sits the more it will have to be marked down, launching new cards that obsolete the inventory they're trying to sell would just make things worse.
AMD is going to be doing the same thing - they pushed back the midrange Navi 33 and will be launching only the high-end Navi 31 until that miner inventory burns through a bit. Similarly to NVIDIA, that likely implies they'll be launching at a high price, they'll undercut NVIDIA by $100 or $200 or something and take the margins but they're not gonna be the heroes of the $700 market either.
---
The EVGA thing is a tempest in a teapot though, the losses he's talking about are something that's happened in the last month (he supposedly decided to quit back at the start of the year) and not representative of the (large, 10x normal) margins that board partners have been making in recent years. I personally didn't see much evidence of "price caps" with partner's first-party storefronts selling 3080s at 2.50-3x FE MSRP either.
And yes, jensen is an asshole and being a partner is a low-margin business, everyone already knows that.
EVGA is losing money because of some of it's CEO's ridiculous prestige side-projects (custom motherboards, enthusiast monitors, video capture cards that turned out to be falsely advertised, pcie sound cards, etc) and generous warranty support (long and transferable with absurdly cheap extended warranties) coupled with a higher-than-average failure rate (because they contract out assembly) and a generally lower-than-industry margin (because they contract out assembly) and they're just being drama queens on the way out.
Someone else with a personal axe to grind (EVGA tried to blacklist him for a critical review), but relaying some commentary from the other board partners: https://www.igorslab.de/en/evga-pulls-the-plug-with-loud-ban...
sylens|3 years ago
perryizgr8|3 years ago
sheepybloke|3 years ago
izacus|3 years ago
datalopers|3 years ago
leetcrew|3 years ago