As someone who recently went through the pre-fab house market for a weekend/cabin build for a property we own, this product suffers from the same problem nearly every other pre-fab "designer" product we saw out there: the cost is substantially more than custom-built and the time to deliver is as long, or longer.
I mention "designer" since there is a pre-fab market for non-designer homes, which do come pretty close to the mission of being a better value without being a "mobile home" - think Pratt, etc.
Ultimately, we went stick-built on-site and paid roughly 35-50% per sq ft of what a comparable pre-fab designer home would have cost, while allowing us to focus costs on the aspects of the house that mattered most to us, while going budget where it didn't matter as much, and still having full control over the process. FWIW, for less than the price of this unit alone, we had a full custom 1,200 sqft house 3BR/2Bth, metal garage, 800' driveway, well, septic, and 1-acre pond built.
I can see if you're willing to pay the premium on the design aesthetics, but designer modular houses have a long way to go to being a more affordable option for most buyers.
When I was looking at modulars 5 or so years ago, the costs were pretty much the same.
But I generally agree - $390k base price for a 5XXsqft house is ridiculous. But it seems this is marketed towards CA residents (who might be used to much higher costs).
Edit: whoops, I see your's was targeted at "designer" prefab.
I've been looking at the HUD-1 "kit" homes from Home Depot. One example is $33k for an unfinished 450 sq ft multi-room home, but you can put it together yourself in 2-3 weekends. Would have to compare to that a "custom" home from a contractor. Did you consider these type options when you were looking?
Is this a joke? Are these people really so out of touch with reality, or have they really just decided to go all-in on the top 2-3% of the market?
$400k for a prefab 1 bedroom house - with the caveat that costs can go up if you don't have the perfect specifications they require. If you were to actually buy the land to fit this tiny home, you'll likely end up with a bill north of $700k-1M+ depending on your location.
Either I've become poorer or the world has become far richer to afford $400k sheds.
This kinda thing is pretty common in the "tiny house" online community, to the point that it's a ubiquitous joke among commenters. "Oh wow, it only cost you $80,000 after your dad's construction company donated most of the labor and materials and your fiance's family let you park it on their New Zealand ancestral estate."
> If you were to actually buy the land to fit this tiny home, you'll likely end up with a bill north of $700k-1M+ depending on your location.
The house is ridiculously priced, but you're way off about land.
Let's be honest, this doesn't need much land. But you can still easily buy land for $2,000/acre and less. I paid 60k for 40 acres, and that's if I value the EIGHT buildings at $0 (about 6 years ago).
Interestingly, some locals have sold property recently at exorbitant rates by marketing in NYC and similar markets. I think people in the city just have no idea.
Even if the housing market nosedives I think they would still be in business, because they are providing a simple financial and practical equation to consumers where none exists. If you have a home on a big enough plot worth $1mm or more, you could look at how much you would increase your home value with this product and say yes/no. The permits are handled, the construction is handled, the end-product’s aesthetics are almost guaranteed. All this is essential for a full-time employed home owner who doesnt have time for a major home renovation project.
This is priced around what it would cost to build something similar from scratch in the back yard of an existing house in an area like Seattle. The caveats make sense, you can easily spend $100k in permitting, site prep, and foundation if your site is not flat (common in this area).
> or have they really just decided to go all-in on the top 2-3% of the market?
I would say they are targeting the top of the market. Looking at their marketing it looks like they aren't even pitching this as an alternative to a home, rather a n alternative to a backyard "shed". They aren't going after people looking for an affordable prefab home. They look like they are targeting the folks that have a huge backyard and an itch for a designer "shed".
Wow! 389k for a very small trailer/prefab!? The CA housing market must have truly detached from all reality. It really looks like it’s something you would set on a cinder block foundation.
Writing as somebody who grew up around architects and engineers this thing is not worth more than 80k. The price at 400k is an insult to peoples' intelligence.
Stick building a 550 sq ft rectangular shaped boxy house with a very boring and standard roof truss design on concrete sonotube piles, screw pilings, footings or a traditional concrete slab foundation is not rocket science.
Your various other costs in rural areas will come in with things like code compliant underground electrical trenching to extend service to its breaker panel, septic tank/connection, water lines, etc.
Holy crap! The price of this thing (not including the land) is like $400K
"Monthly payment assumes line of credit of $389,000 equal to base cost of Dwell House with fixed 4.5% interest rate, a 30-year repayment term, and a 20% down payment."
I don't think I'll ever understand upmarket stuff.
A quick search yields mobile homes range from 784 to 1440 square feet, with an average retail price of $76,400 [1]. This is 540 square feet for $400k. For those unaware, mobile homes are not just the tin can on wheels stereotype. Some look no less gorgeous than this does. Except they're 2-3 times as large, and go for a fraction of the cost.
It's not about value for money, it's a Veblen good for signaling to other wealthy people. Same thing with most audiophile stuff; beautiful design and luxury materials are part of the equation, but it's more about the aesthetics of expense. Nobody needs (or really, even believes) in $1000 oxygen-free copper cables to carry audio signals from record player to amplifier to speakers, but if you've put down $25k on fancy hi-fi components, connecting them up with $50 cables feels poor.
I understand how marketing works, but it still drives me nuts that everyone knows what the main questions will be, but they hide it anyway.
Main page: picture of a pretty house. First question: how much does it cost?
Scroll, scroll, scroll, lots of pictures, here's a floor plan, it works as a pool house too, premium materials, click here to reserve one, oh, hey, a link about pricing.
Pricing page: it's a great investment!
Scroll, scroll...just $1,577 a month! Get out magnifying glass, read fine print. 4.5% interest rate on a 30 year term. Okay, let's get out a calculator, what was the interest rate formula again? Gotta solve for P...about $400,000.
Why do we have to play these stupid games? I don't care that it drives up click-through, you need to tell me how much it costs.
Right? I wanted the price upfront within the first few seconds of browsing the page. When I didn't see it and had to go to another page I knew it was going to be stupid. The title of the cost page is "A great investment" which it most definitely is not.
I can have a local builder do two of these in my backyard for well under that price. I don't live in a HCOL but MCOL? in Colorado but for $225k including permits you can build a 1300sqft livable space (3/2), two story with two car garage. Now it's not using high end fixtures or flooring but working with the local builder you have an allowance for each room and if you want to stay within budget you can or you can go over or under.
What's the advantage of this thing? Ease of use and quick delivery? No disruption from construction for a few months?
$720/sqft is INSANE. Pay bay area prices anywhere in the US!
I looked at getting a nice small office for my backyard. I looked at prefabs, thinking they should have been the way to go. They were all super expensive, products. I'm a pretty well off guy, but I don't really want to pay >$200k for an office.
I ended up buying a 6x9 shed (https://cedarshed.com/products/cedar-studio-shed) for about $5k delivered. I then spent about $9k to have it assembled, outfitted with drywall, filled with noise cancelling insulation, electricity to the unit, lights, plugs, blinds, laminate flooring, and painted. Most of the work was done by 2 handyman for about $5k. Electrical was about $1k. Materials were about $1k. AC including installation was about $1.5k. I helped out, and it was definitely some work on my part, but in the end it turned out great and was all in about $14k. All this was done in the last year.
Now this isn't directly comparable to their product (no bathroom/kitchen and it is about 10% the size) but I am tired of all these super luxury prefab homes, and I want to see costs come down for construction.
The usual secret is to disconnect the exterior protection of the building from the interior; hence the resent obsession with "barndominiums" which are just converted pole-barns. If you can throw foundation, walls and roof with insulation for $x, you can take your time on the insides which are now entirely protected.
I love the designs that Dwell highlights, but the price ($720/sqft) is eye watering. It's the opposite of the spirit of the pretty nice and low cost furniture they did with Target some years ago:
For reference, I completed a custom full house rebuild about a year ago in the insanely pricey Bay Area construction market, built to an equivalent high-end design and construction quality as this, and construction costs were still $450/sqft. I brought the $ cost down even a bit further with sweat equity.
To be fair to them, $ per sq ft is not the best comparison unless you factor for square feet - a 560 sf ft house is much more "dense" than a 2,000 sq ft house, and much of the extra sq footage is pretty cheap. For example, expanding a living room ten feet deeper to add 100 sq ft is the cost of additional foundation, roofing, and flooring and a bit of electrical/heat/cooling load; the cost of an additional bathroom might be much more for the same square footage.
Most homes will cost $150 per square foot to build, give or take $50 either way.
This costs over $700 per square foot, and even if you have the land for it, that cost doesn't include the infrastructure to pull electricity and plumbing to the site. Or a foundation.
Based on my experiences with some of the board members of Dwell, I'm not at all surprised that they've ripped off someone else's idea and presented it as their own innovation. But really, I can't believe they're trying to charge people more than double the cost of the MUJI design they've ripped off, which is also double the square footage:
The benefits of prefab housing - cost savings/modularity/flexibility - never seem to materialize and benefit the end consumer in this space. And I've been a prefab following junkie for at least 15 years now.
Any cost savings is eaten up by greedy companies through marketing to the affluent and any flexibility and modularity is eaten up by your local bureaucracy, NIMBYs and absolutely draconian building codes.
Until the latter points change, I'm afraid prefab benefits will never see the light of day and we'll stick to traditional housing that costs, you know, under $500/sqft (lol)
389k is kind of insane for something this small. My plan is to build something myself but I’m always eager to see what is being put out there by bigger players. This just doesn’t make a lot of financial sense to me.
One way to look at that price is that a skilled craftsman may make $150k a year say (ok let's give him $200k) and that still leaves $189k and a whole damn year to build something that size.
Wow, this is just out of this world. $300K plus for a prefab house and only 540 sq/ft? I was expecting, $50k possibly up to $99k, but this is just wow. Not a customer, most definitely.
To echo every other comment here: $400K+ / 540sqft = $740/sqft, which is beyond astronomical. That’s on par with the most expensive neighborhoods in the most expensive cities in the US (e.g. Georgetown, DC).
> Monthly payment assumes line of credit of $389,000 equal to base cost of Dwell House with fixed 4.5% interest rate, a 30-year repayment term, and a 20% down payment
… my mortgage on 5-bedroom, ~1.8K sq ft home on a half acre lot in a small town in the South is <$825.
I understand property values vary widely - that’s why I live where I do - but this is still ridiculous. Consider also that to buy this, you already have to have the land to put it on. The comparison to rentals includes the cost of the property, upkeep, and overhead amortized into it. It’s not a fair comparison.
If you already have land suitable for this, why not just build a small house? The average cost per sq ft in the US is around $100-$150 for new construction. This thing is 532 sq ft; to be competitive with traditional construction it would need to be priced at <$80k…
[+] [-] drone|3 years ago|reply
I mention "designer" since there is a pre-fab market for non-designer homes, which do come pretty close to the mission of being a better value without being a "mobile home" - think Pratt, etc.
Ultimately, we went stick-built on-site and paid roughly 35-50% per sq ft of what a comparable pre-fab designer home would have cost, while allowing us to focus costs on the aspects of the house that mattered most to us, while going budget where it didn't matter as much, and still having full control over the process. FWIW, for less than the price of this unit alone, we had a full custom 1,200 sqft house 3BR/2Bth, metal garage, 800' driveway, well, septic, and 1-acre pond built.
I can see if you're willing to pay the premium on the design aesthetics, but designer modular houses have a long way to go to being a more affordable option for most buyers.
[+] [-] giantg2|3 years ago|reply
But I generally agree - $390k base price for a 5XXsqft house is ridiculous. But it seems this is marketed towards CA residents (who might be used to much higher costs).
Edit: whoops, I see your's was targeted at "designer" prefab.
[+] [-] Consultant32452|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitxbitxbitcoin|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spaceman_2020|3 years ago|reply
$400k for a prefab 1 bedroom house - with the caveat that costs can go up if you don't have the perfect specifications they require. If you were to actually buy the land to fit this tiny home, you'll likely end up with a bill north of $700k-1M+ depending on your location.
Either I've become poorer or the world has become far richer to afford $400k sheds.
[+] [-] tshaddox|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mod|3 years ago|reply
The house is ridiculously priced, but you're way off about land.
Let's be honest, this doesn't need much land. But you can still easily buy land for $2,000/acre and less. I paid 60k for 40 acres, and that's if I value the EIGHT buildings at $0 (about 6 years ago).
Interestingly, some locals have sold property recently at exorbitant rates by marketing in NYC and similar markets. I think people in the city just have no idea.
There's a whole country out here.
[+] [-] AyyWS|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] riazrizvi|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hedgehog|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _fat_santa|3 years ago|reply
I would say they are targeting the top of the market. Looking at their marketing it looks like they aren't even pitching this as an alternative to a home, rather a n alternative to a backyard "shed". They aren't going after people looking for an affordable prefab home. They look like they are targeting the folks that have a huge backyard and an itch for a designer "shed".
[+] [-] duxup|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dougmwne|3 years ago|reply
A trailer about this size would go for maybe 75k.
https://www.thehomesdirect.com/homes/palm-harbor-homes/casa-...
[+] [-] brightball|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crooked-v|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] walrus01|3 years ago|reply
Stick building a 550 sq ft rectangular shaped boxy house with a very boring and standard roof truss design on concrete sonotube piles, screw pilings, footings or a traditional concrete slab foundation is not rocket science.
Your various other costs in rural areas will come in with things like code compliant underground electrical trenching to extend service to its breaker panel, septic tank/connection, water lines, etc.
[+] [-] Ancapistani|3 years ago|reply
Happy to see someone shares my back-of-the-envelope calculation.
[+] [-] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
Now some of that stuff listed can be quite pricy, septic systems can run upwards of $50k but this thing is designed to be stuck in a backyard.
[+] [-] treis|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spaceman_2020|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RegnisGnaw|3 years ago|reply
"Monthly payment assumes line of credit of $389,000 equal to base cost of Dwell House with fixed 4.5% interest rate, a 30-year repayment term, and a 20% down payment."
[+] [-] somenameforme|3 years ago|reply
A quick search yields mobile homes range from 784 to 1440 square feet, with an average retail price of $76,400 [1]. This is 540 square feet for $400k. For those unaware, mobile homes are not just the tin can on wheels stereotype. Some look no less gorgeous than this does. Except they're 2-3 times as large, and go for a fraction of the cost.
[1] - https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/how-much-...
[+] [-] anigbrowl|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CobrastanJorji|3 years ago|reply
Main page: picture of a pretty house. First question: how much does it cost?
Scroll, scroll, scroll, lots of pictures, here's a floor plan, it works as a pool house too, premium materials, click here to reserve one, oh, hey, a link about pricing.
Pricing page: it's a great investment!
Scroll, scroll...just $1,577 a month! Get out magnifying glass, read fine print. 4.5% interest rate on a 30 year term. Okay, let's get out a calculator, what was the interest rate formula again? Gotta solve for P...about $400,000.
Why do we have to play these stupid games? I don't care that it drives up click-through, you need to tell me how much it costs.
[+] [-] illegalsmile|3 years ago|reply
I can have a local builder do two of these in my backyard for well under that price. I don't live in a HCOL but MCOL? in Colorado but for $225k including permits you can build a 1300sqft livable space (3/2), two story with two car garage. Now it's not using high end fixtures or flooring but working with the local builder you have an allowance for each room and if you want to stay within budget you can or you can go over or under.
What's the advantage of this thing? Ease of use and quick delivery? No disruption from construction for a few months?
$720/sqft is INSANE. Pay bay area prices anywhere in the US!
[+] [-] mchusma|3 years ago|reply
I ended up buying a 6x9 shed (https://cedarshed.com/products/cedar-studio-shed) for about $5k delivered. I then spent about $9k to have it assembled, outfitted with drywall, filled with noise cancelling insulation, electricity to the unit, lights, plugs, blinds, laminate flooring, and painted. Most of the work was done by 2 handyman for about $5k. Electrical was about $1k. Materials were about $1k. AC including installation was about $1.5k. I helped out, and it was definitely some work on my part, but in the end it turned out great and was all in about $14k. All this was done in the last year.
Now this isn't directly comparable to their product (no bathroom/kitchen and it is about 10% the size) but I am tired of all these super luxury prefab homes, and I want to see costs come down for construction.
[+] [-] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danans|3 years ago|reply
https://corporate.target.com/article/2016/10/modern-by-dwell
For reference, I completed a custom full house rebuild about a year ago in the insanely pricey Bay Area construction market, built to an equivalent high-end design and construction quality as this, and construction costs were still $450/sqft. I brought the $ cost down even a bit further with sweat equity.
[+] [-] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codingdave|3 years ago|reply
This costs over $700 per square foot, and even if you have the land for it, that cost doesn't include the infrastructure to pull electricity and plumbing to the site. Or a foundation.
[+] [-] Terretta|3 years ago|reply
There's a lot of variability in how to build.
No idea how this is built; just noting.
[+] [-] theluketaylor|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] numair|3 years ago|reply
https://www.muji.net/ie/younoie/
Glad to see that the commenters here on HN recognize this as a totally obnoxious concept.
[+] [-] cosmodisk|3 years ago|reply
Here's a very interesting read on how things were almost a century ago. Surely we can do better than $300K prefab nowadays.. https://thecraftsmanblog.com/the-history-of-sears-kit-homes/
[+] [-] antisthenes|3 years ago|reply
Any cost savings is eaten up by greedy companies through marketing to the affluent and any flexibility and modularity is eaten up by your local bureaucracy, NIMBYs and absolutely draconian building codes.
Until the latter points change, I'm afraid prefab benefits will never see the light of day and we'll stick to traditional housing that costs, you know, under $500/sqft (lol)
[+] [-] whalesalad|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jakupovic|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SMAAART|3 years ago|reply
No clear price, just the monthly payment, how much one (supposedly) can rent it for, and the expected profit.
I find this a turn-off and a clear sign of the company's practices.
Unfortunately I am the minority, I know.
[+] [-] fishtoaster|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amluto|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ebiester|3 years ago|reply
It's there, just not at the top. Does that count?
[+] [-] jointpdf|3 years ago|reply
But if you like the design, Den Outdoors sells similar house plans: https://denoutdoors.com/collections/small-modern-farmhouse-p...
[+] [-] braingenious|3 years ago|reply
I love ideas like this, but this one isn’t in the same universe as something I would consider for practical purposes.
[+] [-] Ancapistani|3 years ago|reply
> MONTHLY DWELL HOUSE PAYMENT > $1,577
> Monthly payment assumes line of credit of $389,000 equal to base cost of Dwell House with fixed 4.5% interest rate, a 30-year repayment term, and a 20% down payment
… my mortgage on 5-bedroom, ~1.8K sq ft home on a half acre lot in a small town in the South is <$825.
I understand property values vary widely - that’s why I live where I do - but this is still ridiculous. Consider also that to buy this, you already have to have the land to put it on. The comparison to rentals includes the cost of the property, upkeep, and overhead amortized into it. It’s not a fair comparison.
If you already have land suitable for this, why not just build a small house? The average cost per sq ft in the US is around $100-$150 for new construction. This thing is 532 sq ft; to be competitive with traditional construction it would need to be priced at <$80k…
[+] [-] anm89|3 years ago|reply
There are way better priced similar options already. There are similarly sized mobile trailers that are just a bit less fancy around 120k.