Yeah, I think this unfortunately heralds the end for the international internet. If you're not a core US ally, being heavily dependent on US services is now a risk, so I imagine we'll see a wave of states moving to develop their own like China did.
My impression is that both services are widely used in "Slavic" countries, not just Russia. In particular, my relatives in Ukraine use both mail.ru and VK. I wonder if this will trigger a move to equivalent American services, like Facebook or Gmail, for some.
Gotta love how my accurate characterization of causes of current dived comment was flagged. Russia is divided away from rest, because of Genocide and nuclear threats. Russia acts that way because of their own ideologies, history and feeling of entitlement.
The app store apps removal is very minor and does very little to further already existing divide.
I am a bit conflicted here.
On the one hand I hate VK because it has censorship, they provide tools to police to monitor conversations and crack down on people.
On the other, now that Facebook, Instagram and Twitter are banned it leaves even less means of communication and spreading information inside Russia, as bad as VK was.
If only it was kicked out before Russia banned Facebook (it allowed hatespeach towards Russians) people might have migrated to Facebook or something, now there's going to be a void.
Well, VK Web version is just as functional as the app, so maybe not such a big hit.
Also, in Russia most people use Android, so Google Play ban would be more effective.
The app continue to work for everyone that has already installed it.
And you can still redownload it from your purchased page.
So it shouldn't be a major issue.
VK has not been targeted with sanctions, despite what the article implies (though with scare quotes). VK's CEO is personally sanctioned due to being an "adult child of someone who had been a Russian government official" (source Reuters[0]), but VK the company is not sanctioned.
This is a shameful unilateral decision by Apple, let there be no ambiguity.
>due to being an "adult child of someone who had been a Russian government official" (source Reuters[0]), but VK the company is not sanctioned.
I get the intention behind this rule for applying sanctions, but it still seems unfair to me that the son pays for the sins of the father and can't even atone for him.
If Apple sold phones in Russia, do they also have to delete those apps there? If the answer is yes, that's very troubling, and it goes beyond complying with US regulations IMO.
It is already fragmented by socio-cultural borders.
If you are an Internet user in Europe, or even India, I would expect that you have absolute zero prior knowledge of Lewd Dreams meme. From the western borders of China all the way to Bering Strait it’s as basic of a knowledge as it subtly being inserted into or even exploited in totalitarian state propaganda.
But you haven’t seen it, because you have no reason to(no offense intended); there are invisible cultural borders already, in this global platform.
In all likelihood, it won't be completely unnavigable. North Korea blocks all US traffic, but if you use a proxy located in mainland China, you can browse the North Korean "internet" from the US.
Nah, failed dictatorships are incompetent and can't push their economies overall, on par with regular countries. And due to this economical deficiency their companies will never be globally competitive, including competitive software and webservices. So will be forced to to keep open access to the internet to feed on the major web platforms and services. That's why all these nutjobs like Iran always restore internet access to the outside after some crisis has passed.
The only exceptions could be either successful self sufficient dictatorship (only China today), or complete nutjobs at the end of their rule, who disregard all concerns about local businesses.
Is it possible to understand that Russia is the aggressor but also oppose sanctions? Russia has absolutely committed more atrocities than Iran and Cuba, but none of these countries are democracies, and therefore I find it difficult to support measures that disproportionately affect the citizenry over the ruling class in any of these countries.
I also hope the dialogue in these threads can improve. The quality of the comments, at the time of writing mine, are poor and quippy.
It doesn’t matter what form of government Russia has on paper when they’ve invaded a separate sovereign nation and worst than that: appear to be very serious about genocide and also appear to be very serious about using their nukes in some capacity.
They can stand equal among nations with advanced financial markets, medicine and technology if they want. I have no problem with that, but it comes with a price: checking their territorial ambitions at the door. At this point I would even add on to that fully surrendering their nuclear arsenal because the leaders they’ve either chosen or “chosen” (and for the purposes of this conversation it doesn’t really matter which anymore) have proven to be irresponsible caretakers.
It is not only about russians using apps but russian game developers not profiting example my.games small branch owned by vk made 10m $ profit only last ( 7 mil ios 3 android) month majority of vk is owned by gasprom therefore that way money is still flowing even though. It doesnt matter that russians dont have option ti do purchases in app, people world wide buy stuff in game and money is flowing to russia other ways.
I laugh at comments like this. Every major social media network in the US feeds all data directly to the NSA without any kind of warrant.
Did everyone forget about the Snowden leaks? Or did everyone just decide to trust the same people who lied to us about committing the crime in the first place when they said they stopped?
Where I work we were told to remove the option to choose the russian language from any drop down and delete all russian translations from the database. That didn't quite seem right to me since there are people who speak russian who don't live in russia, but they seem to be trying to remove all traces of any sort of connection with russia (the country).
> In January 2016, China banned VKontakte, claiming that it was manipulating web content and cooperating with the Kremlin. According to Russia's media watchdog, the network estimates around 300,000 users based in China.[63] As of 14 February 2018, China authorities unblocked VKontakte and it was fully accessible in the country.[64]
This whole thing has given HarmonyOS a second market. I thought the whole thing would stay China only but it seems that as a result of sanctioning Huawei and by extension HarmonyOS based devices they have now opened a second (fairly big market) to HarmonyOS. I don't understand how there is no one left around these people to advise them of the unintended consequences for their policy decisions.
Interesting how they provide evidence that the apps were removed from the Apple store, but they make the very strong claims that apps are "almost 100% owned" by a governmental agency without providing any links as a source, further proof, or more reading. Doesn't seem like strong journalistic standards... Does anybody have a link for me to do some more reading? Not sure what to search for that won't pull up mainstream media articles instead of primary sources.
I think it's very concerning to see society actively wanting to suppress "harmful" information/apps that've been deemed "harmful" by Governments, and by extension, corporate interests. Society sees these massive companies doing it with statements like "removing harmful misinformation", "aiding in the 'fight against the evil russians!'", etc. etc. etc.
I understand that "yes, Apple is a private company with their own catered app-store experience and can control what they do and don't allow on it".
What I don't like is that there are so few competitors in the phone space - Android app store, and Apple store, the rest are single-digit percentage or low double-digit percentage market shares. And, these current companies do everything in their power to make sure no other competitors enter the scene, even though there's high barriers/costs to enter the mobile device market.
Apple (and all gigantic tech companies) have so much power to sway society and sway public opinion, purely by restricting what apps or content you can or cannot have on your devices - further more they make corporate decisions (which I am undoubtedly sure are done behind closed doors with execs from other companies and/or the US Government) that affect so many people without even a thought. Whether it's been designed that way to allow the US government to have more soft-power over it's people rather than hard power like other countries (China, Russia) or not, it's harmful to everybody.
I wish there was more active/worthy competition in the mobile phone space.
What the hell are you talking about “false pretences”? Trying to tie all that stuff about reddit etc together with the current treatment of Russia, given that is a direct result of their cruel and pointless invasion of Ukraine, is ridiculous.
More broadly than the VK and mail.ru apps mentioned in the article as being pulled by Apple, but not (yet?) Google, there's an Ars article today [1] looking at a bigger picture:
> Google and Apple have removed hundreds of apps from their app stores at the request of governments around the world ...
[+] [-] carvking|3 years ago|reply
Great for deepening the divide between people & countries.
[+] [-] ImprobableTruth|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AlexandrB|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marginalia_nu|3 years ago|reply
Genuinely uncertain if this refers to Apple or the kremlin.
[+] [-] seydor|3 years ago|reply
i think people are asking for it
[+] [-] watwut|3 years ago|reply
The app store apps removal is very minor and does very little to further already existing divide.
[+] [-] newtritious|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] watwut|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] swe_dima|3 years ago|reply
On the other, now that Facebook, Instagram and Twitter are banned it leaves even less means of communication and spreading information inside Russia, as bad as VK was.
If only it was kicked out before Russia banned Facebook (it allowed hatespeach towards Russians) people might have migrated to Facebook or something, now there's going to be a void.
Well, VK Web version is just as functional as the app, so maybe not such a big hit.
Also, in Russia most people use Android, so Google Play ban would be more effective.
[+] [-] mrleblanc101|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lostmsu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] concinds|3 years ago|reply
This is a shameful unilateral decision by Apple, let there be no ambiguity.
[0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/vk-results-idINL5N2V601G
[+] [-] claudiawerner|3 years ago|reply
I get the intention behind this rule for applying sanctions, but it still seems unfair to me that the son pays for the sins of the father and can't even atone for him.
[+] [-] cgb223|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bilal_io|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] restore_creole_|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anonym29|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] endisneigh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] numpad0|3 years ago|reply
If you are an Internet user in Europe, or even India, I would expect that you have absolute zero prior knowledge of Lewd Dreams meme. From the western borders of China all the way to Bering Strait it’s as basic of a knowledge as it subtly being inserted into or even exploited in totalitarian state propaganda.
But you haven’t seen it, because you have no reason to(no offense intended); there are invisible cultural borders already, in this global platform.
[+] [-] anonym29|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Yizahi|3 years ago|reply
The only exceptions could be either successful self sufficient dictatorship (only China today), or complete nutjobs at the end of their rule, who disregard all concerns about local businesses.
[+] [-] mc32|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DIARRHEA_xd|3 years ago|reply
I also hope the dialogue in these threads can improve. The quality of the comments, at the time of writing mine, are poor and quippy.
[+] [-] SllX|3 years ago|reply
They can stand equal among nations with advanced financial markets, medicine and technology if they want. I have no problem with that, but it comes with a price: checking their territorial ambitions at the door. At this point I would even add on to that fully surrendering their nuclear arsenal because the leaders they’ve either chosen or “chosen” (and for the purposes of this conversation it doesn’t really matter which anymore) have proven to be irresponsible caretakers.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] xoi0x|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kergonath|3 years ago|reply
This is not suspicious at all.
[+] [-] anonym29|3 years ago|reply
Did everyone forget about the Snowden leaks? Or did everyone just decide to trust the same people who lied to us about committing the crime in the first place when they said they stopped?
[+] [-] irrational|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stunt|3 years ago|reply
It definitely doesn't sound right.
[+] [-] slezyr|3 years ago|reply
This is hilarious.
[+] [-] rjzzleep|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jupp0r|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ezfe|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jcmontx|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwie_wayward|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] zandroid|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scohesc|3 years ago|reply
I think it's very concerning to see society actively wanting to suppress "harmful" information/apps that've been deemed "harmful" by Governments, and by extension, corporate interests. Society sees these massive companies doing it with statements like "removing harmful misinformation", "aiding in the 'fight against the evil russians!'", etc. etc. etc.
I understand that "yes, Apple is a private company with their own catered app-store experience and can control what they do and don't allow on it".
What I don't like is that there are so few competitors in the phone space - Android app store, and Apple store, the rest are single-digit percentage or low double-digit percentage market shares. And, these current companies do everything in their power to make sure no other competitors enter the scene, even though there's high barriers/costs to enter the mobile device market.
Apple (and all gigantic tech companies) have so much power to sway society and sway public opinion, purely by restricting what apps or content you can or cannot have on your devices - further more they make corporate decisions (which I am undoubtedly sure are done behind closed doors with execs from other companies and/or the US Government) that affect so many people without even a thought. Whether it's been designed that way to allow the US government to have more soft-power over it's people rather than hard power like other countries (China, Russia) or not, it's harmful to everybody.
I wish there was more active/worthy competition in the mobile phone space.
[+] [-] Yizahi|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Garvi|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] megous|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] te_chris|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NeverFade|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Mikeb85|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rabuse|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] seydor|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samizdis|3 years ago|reply
> Google and Apple have removed hundreds of apps from their app stores at the request of governments around the world ...
[1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/09/apps-...
EDIT to add that the Ars article was originally published in The Conversation - https://theconversation.com/the-same-app-can-pose-a-bigger-s...