[TheYumasi]

As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision.

I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paperweight while every non-iPhone user is fine in the meantime because of the wide adoption of USB-C. It is also ironic how Apple markets heavily on how you can take great RAW photos or videos but somehow you have to use lightning USB2 speeds to transfer them. Lightning is barely smaller than USB-C, and clearly my iPhone thickness will not change if it switches to USB-C.

As for the e-waste generated by "having to throw all of those lightning cables", how is it not e-waste that someone buying an iPhone will have yet another lightning cable that will only be used to charge it. If we want to really be more environmentally friendly, wouldn't it make more sense to have no cable at all with the devices we buy, force the sellers to clearly tell the consumers about it and offer the cable on the side only if needed? With that cable being usb-c, the consumer don't have to think about the cable type, for non-tech savvy people, that would be "the regular charging cable" and that's it. I would also add that all lightning cables won't suddenly go to the landfill in 2024. Many people will keep their iPhones/AirPods for a while after that date. Many would probably donate their old lightning cables to whoever needs them. In the meantime, we all already have an ever growing landfill in our homes called the cable drawer, and it is also an issue that needs to be addressed.

[codexb]

There's nothing wise or moral about this decision.

Mandating a technology standard, purely for personal preference and convenience reasons -- not for reasons related to safety, or pollution, or security -- especially for things that change as fast as phones, is one of the most short-sighted and naive things any government could do.

There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide. Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future. The EU is mandating technological stagnation. They will always be behind the market.

[Jtsummers]

> There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide.

Lightning was good when it came out (compared to the various micro-USB options), but it's not held up. Even Apple knows this and they've moved away from it on their iPads.

[wongarsu]

It gets kind of lost in the summary, but only devices that are rechargeable via a wired cable have to be chargable via USB-C. So going fully wireless is perfectly legal. It's also perfectly legal to offer other charging ports in addition to USB-C, though that's less likely to happen in phones.

And while this regulation puts some limitations on innovation in connectors, Thunderbolt shows that there is lots of room to innovate within the USB-C format (in a way that's compatible to normal USB).

[arcticbull]

Apple hasn't changed the 'fast-changing' lightning connector since 2012, and USB-A lasted from 1996 to, well, present. USB-C came out in 2014 and is likely going to outlive us both. Connectors simply don't change that fast, and I'm not sure why people think they do.

I think even the EU can regulate on that kind of schedule.

[kristiandupont]

>purely for personal preference and convenience reasons

Those are not the reasons.

[Arkhaine_kupo]

> There's nothing wise

There is, for example the fact that the standard is set by comittee means large players have more say but cannot dictate the market. This allows innovation that doesn't benefit one party.

> purely for personal preference and convenience reasons

Not the reason behind the move

> not for reasons related to safety, or pollution, or security

Those are some of the benefits but not all

> especially for things that change as fast as phones

Connectors are standards, plus phones do not change that often, they get marginally better but most of them have looked largely the same for a decade.

> There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide

Previously there was also a long history of interoperability between Apple designs that no longer exists. And before that there was a long history of Apple being a tiny company constantly on the verge of bankruptcy. Long history is a pretty short time nowadays.

> Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future.

I cannot wait to have the slowest charging phone on the market as a selling point.

> he EU is mandating technological stagnation.

The EU mandating GDPR has increased security protection on data around the globe, and decreased bloatware. A large player like europe setting a standard means that companies follow that legislation to not have 2 products one for Europe and one outside.

[birksherty]

It's not for all that reason. But to make companies follow standard. So it's a great decision.

These companies have been doing what they want for far too long like removing headphone jack, removable battery etc.

[kelnos]

> There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above...

Oh please, Apple has barely improved Lightning since its introduction a decade ago (2012!). Yes, back then, it was better than what was available, but the industry has moved on, and Apple has stagnated.

> Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future.

Unlikely. For one thing, wireless charging is still much slower than what you can get with a cable, and for another, users will not tolerate needing to lug around a charging pad (with its own cable), or hope that someone nearby has one. Yes, I know similar things about tolerance were said about the removal of headphone jacks, but I don't think this is quite the same situation.

> The EU is mandating technological stagnation. They will always be behind the market.

I haven't read the text of the law, but I would hope that it's flexible enough to allow for embracing improvements to technology.

But even if that process is slow, I don't think that's a bad thing. Fast-changing technology generally does not really help users (it can, but I think more often it does not). Yes, benefits can be realized over time, but these sorts of changes create confusion and waste if not done well. I really don't care if Apple wants to put a new connector on iPhones, but it takes them 3 years instead of 1 year to do it because of legal/regulatory issues.

> Mandating a technology standard, purely for personal preference and convenience reasons -- not for reasons related to safety, or pollution, or security

Pollution is* a concern here, though I agree that's probably not the primary reason this law was drafted. I'm with you on the general discomfort around regulations targeted toward preference/convenience. But I think it's a little unfair to call it "personal preference". Lighting is inferior to USB-C in almost every way (the only advantage Lightning has is that it's slightly smaller, but not to a degree that really matters). Apple continues to use Lightning out of stubbornness and NIH syndrome, and that hurts consumers overall.

But consider all the places that have two cables. I've seen dual-cable setups in Lyft/Uber vehicles, and at friendly coffee shops and stuff like that (hell, I still see a few places that additionally have micro-USB cables). What a huge waste of material! And yeah, you can buy single cables that have multiple "heads" on them, but I very rarely see those in the wild. If there was actually a good technical reason why we have this split, then sure,

> especially for things that change as fast as phones

I don't think that's really true anymore. Most smartphones are basically the same as they were 5 years ago. Incrementally better camera hardware, incrementally better display technology, more RAM, faster processors, more storage. But I see very little change year to year. Maybe there will be some big new changes coming soon, but I don't see any evidence of that.

> is one of the most short-sighted and naive things any government could do.*

Heh, I think you underestimate government capacity for short-sightedness. This particular thing seems pretty middling and mediocre to me on that scale.

[rlt]

I'd like to see Apple remove the port completely and rely on wireless charging and communication, only in the EU, just to spite the EU.

[outworlder]

> especially for things that change as fast as phones

USB-C is forward looking. It will be quite a while before it will no longer be useful.

[brokenmachine]

>in favor of wireless charging

So, force people to have more stuff and use the less power efficent option. As well as the glued-in non-replaceable batteries that were such a wonderful futuristic idea before.

Thank the flying spaghetti monster that the EU is "behind the market", because the market is consumer-hostile garbage.

[henvic]

> The EU is mandating technological stagnation. They will always be behind the market.

Well said!

[franczesko]

EU is doing pretty much what Apple does all the time - forcing standards.

[sacrosancty]

Not a fan of metric screw threads? Mandates were needed in some countries to change from imperial to metric because the market can't make such a non-incremental move on its own even if it's good for everyone.

[aaaaaaaaaaab]

>Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future.

Lol. Literally not possible.

[jwr]

USB-C is just a connector.

If we follow this logic, the EU should also mandate which aspects of USB-C PD are required to be supported and enforce that. Otherwise we'll end up with a slew of devices without even the required 5.1k resistors, which can't charge from PD-compliant adapters, but can be charged using a USB-A to USB-C cable.

As an EU citizen, while I do agree that regulation is often required (it did wonders for our roaming charges!), I do not like this development.

[crote]

They do mandate USB PD, actually!

The law [0] reads:

> In so far as they are capable of being recharged by means of wired charging at voltages higher than 5 Volts, currents higher than 3 Amperes or powers higher than 15 Watts, the categories or classes of radio equipment referred to in point 1 of this Part shall:

> 3.1. incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 “Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-2: Common components - USB Power Delivery specification”;

> 3.2. ensure that any additional charging protocol allows for the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery referred to in point 3.1., irrespective of the charging device used.

As to devices supplying less than 15 Watts: the 5.1k resistors are already mandatory in the USB-C connector spec.

[0]: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0338... , page 35

[markus92]

USB-PD is mandated in this directive! The EU press release specifically states any device will be able to charge at the same speed if cable/charger support it. See https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220930IP...

[arcticbull]

I'd argue this is actually great. It's extremely unlikely that type-C connectors would charge from anything other than the in-built charging standard (if for no other reason than physical compatibility) but all the extra pins make it extremely flexible. The Lightning pins can just be routed out of the USB-C connector in a compliant way via alt-mode.

[hedgehog]

Lightning is a better connector for small devices and it's more durable in my experience. USB-C is way better than micro as a connector but you end up with the issue of many kinds of cables that look similar but are not interchangeable. What speed? PD support? Power only? Who knows!

Maybe switching to a less durable connector or no connector is fine given that Qi support has gotten pretty good. Most of the Lightning cables I've purchased are still in circulation, I'd prefer not to replace them.

If the EU really cared about solving a problem they'd ban micro, that connector is really fragile and totally superseded by type C.

[klempner]

There is no such thing as a C to C cable that is "power only" or doesn't support PD, unless it is grossly spec incompliant.

The minimal spec C to C cable is USB 2 data and supports power delivery with currents up to 3 amps (i.e. 60 W at 20V 3A)

This is enough for most phones, and almost all of the exceptions use proprietary charging that isn't going to work on a C to C cable anyway.

The labeling issue of all these cheap shit cables is a serious problem, but it is a nonissue in the phone charging context.

[themitigating]

They are interchangeable but may not charge as fast or transfer data as fast. So they are still useful.

[jonny_eh]

> Lightning is a better connector for small devices it's more durable in my experience

It's less durable in my experience. I can do this all day.

[blue_light_man]

This is such a short sighted view.

What just happened is, EU, a political organization enforcing the use of a technology on a company which operates on free market. It's Apples best interest to make technology that the consumers want so that they can sell more units of that. A political organization like EU has no say in this. EU citizens already make this decision for themselves by voting with money and choosing to buy/not buy an iPhone.

Today is one of the dark days of EU. In short sight it's a victory. But in long sight it's a hinderence to progress by enforcing a technology on the market instead of letting the free market decide the technology.

[sbf501]

> on a company which operates on free market.

You probably shouldn't have based your argument on this statement, which is generally regarded as a myth. It is a myth in the sense that Apple exists in a free market: it is a near monopoly but is savvy enough not to wade into the area other companies did in the 90's and were penalized.

Second, governments have the right to enforce environmental protection acts to protect the health and safety of its people. Technology companies are subject to this from day one at many levels (e.g., fabs have limits on how much toxic waste they can pump into the air).

The EU is leading the way for cracking down on trillion-dollar companies who choose to treat you as a product rather than a person. I hope the rest of the world follows.

[funklute]

> A political organization like EU has no say in this.

This is the short-sighted view. The unguided free market very often makes "decisions" that are detrimental to society as a whole, and it is absolutely necessary for political organisations to correct for this.

[Swenrekcah]

Respectfully, I would claim it's short-sighted to believe that the individual consumer has any real say in what they want, need or get with respect to offerings by trillion-dollar international conglomerates.

There is no such thing as a free and unregulated market. Well, it exists but we call it the law of the jungle.

This is not to say that any regulation is sensible, but this kind of standardization to avoid vendor lock-in and waste is one of the prime examples of sensible stuff.

[xdennis]

> This is such a short sighted view.

It's not. The EU tried to do it the easy way, where companies would agree amongst themselves. This was finally accomplished in 2009[1] by every one except Apple.

[1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/06/10-companies-agree-t...

After 13 years, the EU is finally forcing Apple.

> EU citizens already make this decision for themselves by voting with money

We're also voting with our votes and most of us agree with that the EU is doing here.

[Fiahil]

> by voting with money

"voting with money" or "voting with your wallet" is a complete non-sense. There is no -absolutely no- way for anyone in the industry to attribute a lost sale to a "missing" feature.

I think this also a symptoms on how Americans view the world through means of consumption. Everything HAS TO be consumed one way or another.

[doikor]

> A political organization like EU has no say in this.

EU and most people living within it would disagree with this statement.

[_abox]

> A political organization like EU has no say in this. EU citizens already make this decision for themselves by voting with money and choosing to buy/not buy an iPhone.

I think it's important to point out that most EU countries do not subscribe to the exact same free-market vision that the US does. And the biggest country that did has recently left it.

Most of Europe is totally happy with a much more restricted free market than the US would ever allow. This is not something imposed on us people. It's what the majority wants, aka democracy.

[mort96]

> It's Apples best interest to make technology that the consumers want so that they can sell more units of that.

This is so hilariously wrong. It's in Apple's best interest to do whatever makes them the most money. Sometimes that happens to coincide with what customers want, but it often doesn't, _especially_ in a market with a duopoly with an incredibly high affinity for lock-in.

[gbanfalvi]

> It's Apples best interest to make technology that the consumers want so that they can sell more units of that.

It's Apple's best interest to do what makes them money, and it often aligns with what customers want.

> A political organization like EU has no say in this.

Standards bodies in the EU have be defining things like this for decades.

> EU citizens already make this decision for themselves by voting with money and choosing to buy/not buy an iPhone.

As an Apple customer I might be voting with my money, but not on the connector specifically -- just on whether the product's collective pros outweigh their cons (and whether it's better than the competitor's, ofc). If I could vote, I would've voted for USB-C a long time ago, but I just get to choose between a set of products with varying compromises. Don't know why you try to make it seem like a democratic choice.

> Today is one of the dark days of EU. In short sight it's a victory. But in long sight it's a hinderence to progress by enforcing a technology on the market instead of letting the free market decide the technology.

If the free market had its say, it'd be choosing profits over the environment, consumer safety and worker rights every time. Or..? Why hasn't the US, with much laxer regulations free-marketed itself to utopia?

[tunap]

>But in long sight it's a hinderence to progress by enforcing a technology on the market instead of letting the free market decide the technology.

No, it's not in any way a hindrance to the market, merely one player who desires rent seeking. What it is doing is enforcing standards on manufacturers instead of the other way around.

[ddoolin]

It's a phone charging port. It's not that serious. It's better for consumers if we all have the same one for everything, if possible. Unless you can tell me why not?

[cptskippy]

> It's Apples best interest to make technology that the consumers want so that they can sell more units of that.

And in the absence of a competitive advantage, you create a captive market. Apple was smart in quietly creating a captive market as they built out their ecosystem because they saw this eventuality. One of the ways they created it was by making the ecosystem both expensive to enter and leave. You're heavily invested in proprietary hardware and all of your digital assets are locked to the ecosystem and cannot be utilized outside it.

The Lightning port was innovative at the time it was introduced but it has been eclipsed in most ways by USB-C. Now it's just a DRM'd lock-in mechanism.

My partner recently switched to an iPhone. I bought a USB-C Charger, and some *certified* Lightning to USB-A cables in various lengths from various manufacturers to enabled the device to be charged all over the home and in the cars. Suddenly after 3 months the iPhone refuses to charge from any of the cables or using the USB-C cable that came with the phone plugged into the USB-C Charger. The cables work however when I use an old iPhone 6 or if I plug the new iPhone into a computer using one of the cables. No errors, no warnings, just nothing; the iPhone just refuses to charge from them.

Apple says the DRM exists to protect users from dodgy or counterfeit cables that might pose a risk to the users. Unsurprisingly [this official Apple cable](https://i.imgur.com/icsPxJx.jpg) will charge the iPhone just fine at full speed.

I for one welcome this regulation though I'm sure Apple will find a way to nerf it.

[lelanthran]

> What just happened is, EU, a political organization enforcing the use of a technology on a company which operates on free market.

Where are you living that your free market isn't regulated for the benefit of the consumer?

[germinalphrase]

You think Apple is dragging its feet on iPhone USB-C adoption because it's in the best interest of consumers to do so?

[Arrath]

You seem to be placing a lot of doom and gloom onto the proscription of a given physical port.

Its not as if the EU mandated flawed encryption, or silicon manufactured only within the bloc.

[remeq]

EU is not trying to impose regulation or standardization on highly innovative areas of hardware or chipset design or software design or anything of that matter. They are imposing it for something that has largely been understood and comoditized (electric charging of phones via cable and data transfer using open communication protocol) where there is little room for getting any kind of competitive advantage or differentiation or some significant innovation. Speaking about hindrance of progress is largely far fetched and not based on reality. Things like this are really not blocking any meaningful progress but they indeed are largely abused by enterprises to push proprietary things to consumer so that it can be monetized and consumer locked in the vendor ecosystem.

[fennecfoxy]

>It's Apples best interest to make technology that the consumers want so that they can sell more units of that Consumers wants? More like Apple wants to use one of the few proprietary technologies that they can get away with, so they can sell you cables, whilst fostering an almost cult-like adulation of their company & what they do so that any time Apple's decisions are questioned, legions of people defend them for no reason.

The lightning connector is outmoded. The cables Apple makes are designed to fail, mostly around the heatshrink area. The digital standards that lightning supports are outdated: 0.480Gbps vs 20-40Gbps for USB C/+TB.

[mountainriver]

Yup this is huge government overreach and the EU increasingly looks hostile to tech companies which produce most of the value in modern economies.

Don’t like the lightning cable? Buy a different phone, it’s really that simple

[andmarios]

Then what about EU enforcing more energy efficient buildings and home appliances, electric vehicles and more?

EU is not a political organization, it is a political and economical union. If companies are left alone, they will never make a decision that does not benefit themselves. This is why we need EU, to make the decisions that benefit the planet and the people, thus leveling the field, so companies can compete within sane limits.

[birksherty]

I don't care about private companies, if they want to operate with people they must follow a standard and so the news is good. All the time these companies do whatever they want like ditching headphone jack, fixed batteries, even if people don't want it. They force the change and we have to comply.

So yeah it's great for long term.

[jlarocco]

Phone’s already aren’t a free market.

Do you, or any consumer, have perfect information about the phone market? No. Does your phone comply with FCC and EU rules? Yes. Does it contain mercury? No. Are there any taxes or tariffs on them? Probably. All of those and more mean we don’t have a free market.

Corporations exist because we let them, and they play by the rules we decide.

[jhoechtl]

Out of curiosity: You are from the US, own lots of Aple appliances and hold APPL stock? Which one of my bets is wrong?

[jackvalentine]

> A political organization like EU has no say in this. EU citizens already make this decision for themselves by voting with money and choosing to buy/not buy an iPhone.

Surely this goes both ways - if you don’t want to play by the rules you can vote with your business and not sell in to that market?

[soulofmischief]

The market is not free. Apple already enjoys the fruits of lobbying and market consolidation. Users are not free.

[dainiusse]

Sorry, but can't agree here. Lightning is USB2. The only thing Apple uses it for, is thei cable business

[krzyk]

If it is a free market, let me install a different app store than the apple one.

[twen_ty]

Oh please - Apple had more than a decade to improve on the lightning cable - you somehow infer that progress will be hindered now because of this ruling? You do realise why standards actually exist?

[poulpy123]

Actually the only thing that EU is interesting is for standardizing stuff

[joenot443]

Political organizations like the FCC already control parts of what an iPhone is and isn't allowed to do. Apple's never been in a position where they can offer exactly what the consumer wants without any political regulation, they've always had to follow some rules.

I don't think this will go down as an important or sector-changing decision. I remember hearing the same thing online about the 2009 common external power supply law and if anything it feels like the consumer is better off.

As others have said much more eloquently than I could, the answer for a happy market probably isn't total unregulated capitalism _or_ full government control, but likely somewhere in the middle. I've been an iPhone user since the 3GS and I'm pleased with this decision.

[fsckboy]

depending on your definition of "free market", if you're looking for the benefits of a free market, apple's monopolistic behavior is also a source of market failure

[rs999gti]

> What just happened is, EU, a political organization

An unelected political organization

[minimaul]

> "the regular charging cable"

This is the problem I have with this choice. USB-C isn't one cable. It's a big variety of poorly-labelled possible cables, complying with a ton of different standards.

USB-C can be just USB2.0 capable, 3.1 Gen1, 3.1 Gen2, Thunderbolt 3 capable, etc. Some cables can carry 3A. Some 5A.

When your 'universal' charging cable doesn't provide fast charging, is it because your charger doesn't provide the right voltages/wattage? Is it a broken USB-PD implementation (eg the Nintendo Switch)? is it that the cable is underspecced (and a lot of USB-C cables on the market don't actually meet the spec)?

I think the intention is good but USB-C carries so much complexity that I don't think this helps consumers as much as everyone is making out.

[jacobr1]

USB-A had a similar problem (but on a much smaller scale). There also was heterogeneity in build quality. But over time features and quality converged. I think we should expect something similar here.

[Rebelgecko]

The new labeling requirements will hopefully help with that

[kmlx]

> I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C.

yes, this is an interesting statement. and it's true.

basically in the countries that form the European Union Android has a higher market share than iOS. in some big countries like Germany, Spain, France and Italy Android has between 60% to 70% of the market.

but what's more interesting is this: in the UK, Canada, Australia and the US the iPhone has more market share (and in NZ it's very close).

anecdotally, in the UK pretty much everyone in big cities have iPhones. i very rarely see an Android device.

i do wonder why. it could have to do with cheaper prices for Android and a general lower penetration of technology in those countries, but i think this seems too facile.

[f1shy]

I have a feeling the iPhone market penetration, in the named countries (Central EU vs Common Wealth) has a strong correlation with other aspects of the daily life in said markets (for example Facebook use, MSN Messanger --ok, some 10 years ago-- use of cash in daily purchase) At least that is my feeling, which of course can be completely biased. I would find really interesting a study in that.

[rozularen]

Not only that Android is cheaper but also the mean income in countries where Android is prevalent is lower than those where iOS is, with exceptions like Germany, France (I'd need to see market share data from these exceptions)

[spookthesunset]

Going wireless charging only is probably not gonna happen anytime soon. Wireless charging is significantly less efficient than wired. The difference might not matter much if you are using power from the wall*, but if you are charging off a battery bank you want as much efficiency as you can--you don't want to waste power!

*(being less efficient while charging from wall might not matter to you as an individual but consider if everybody was charging with such an inefficient means... that might add up to a lot of waste)

[CharlesW]

> The difference might not matter much if you are using power from the wall, but if you are charging off a battery bank you want as much efficiency as you can--you don't want to waste power!

Wireless power banks are already a thing, and they're great because you don't have to mess around with cables. For those of you not using iPhones, they support standard Qi charging as well as faster and more efficient MagSafe charging.

I care about wireless charging efficiency as much as I care about plug-in USB charging efficiency, which is not a lot. If wireless charging is half as efficient, it's costing me a couple bucks extra per year.

[speleding]

The main problem I have with USB-C is that it is not a particularly good standard for power delivery. For one, USB-C is not "IP rated" for use in the kitchen or the bathroom, so you still need separate chargers there. Also the USB-C connector supports fast data delivery, which makes it a lot more expensive than a connector that focusses on power only.

A standard that would do just power delivery <100W and works in damp environments, so it could cheap and universal, would have been so much better.

[thatfrenchguy]

> A standard that would do just power delivery <100W and works in damp environments, so it could cheap and universal, would have been so much better.

Don't you just have a RCD/GFCI on your outlet / breaker for this purpose?

[crote]

Agree on the IP rating, that is definitely not ideal - although excusable in practice.

Regarding cost: the fast data is optional. Charging-only usb-c receptables are available for $0.025 / each. To be fair, a micro-b can be found for $0.015 so it is more expensive, but it's not exactly going to bankrupt anyone.

[Terretta]

> e-waste

The irony of, e.g., Brazil, passing laws that Apple can't leave the cable and charger out of the box.

Meanwhile, who with a current phone uses a cable to charge any more? Even before MagSafe the wireless is far more convenient, now with MagSafe and a zillion brands of stands that do phone + watch + AirPods all wireless, not to mention even MagSafe for cars that charge and don't drop the phone on bad roads, cables are redundant. And while they won't all do the same top speed, in general the coasters charge both Android and iPhone happily.

But, speaking of docks, that's the real issue -- lightning works beautifully when docking a phone into a stereo or alarm clock or etc, USB-C not so much. Basically, on lightning if the tab breaks you get a new cheap cable, on USB-C if the tab breaks, you need a new dock.

[kelnos]

Raises hand. I don't have an iPhone, but I find wireless charging to just be kinda annoying. The only place I use it is in my car, which has a built-in charging pad, with good mechanical design that keeps the phone from moving around (and possibly losing the wireless charging "connection"). Otherwise, everywhere else, I'm always wired when I charge, and I kinda don't care about wireless charging.

> But, speaking of docks, that's the real issue -- lightning works beautifully when docking a phone into a stereo or alarm clock or etc, USB-C not so much.

I mean, there are still docks out there that have the old 30-pin Apple iPod/iPhone/iPad connector (not many; I think I saw one in an old hotel last year, but that's it). If USB-C is the primary connector used, then that's what dock manufacturers will use. And, bonus, manufacturers that actually support more than one connector can eventually drop Lightning as an option, and save on costs.

> Basically, on lightning if the tab breaks you get a new cheap cable, on USB-C if the tab breaks, you need a new dock.

Er, what? If the tab in a dock breaks, you need to get a new dock with either connector. The Lighting connector tab is just as breakable (if not more so, as it's thinner) than a USB-C plug, and if the one in your dock breaks, you're just as out of luck.

[philihp]

> who with a current phone uses a cable to charge any more?

I think you may be living in a bubble.

[3836293648]

You're living in a bubble. Cable based charging is still far more common than wireless. There are still people who refuse to use bluetooth headphones. I am not carrying around another device that requires charging

[cm2187]

tbh it's kind of ridiculous that I need a different dongle for my ipad and my iphone. I know that Apples makes money selling dongles, but that's a crap UX.

[m00dy]

As a Turk living in EU, I second the comment above.

[assetlabel]

Technology is still changing fairly rapidly. Regulation is not.

There will come a time when flashy new tech that everyone is drooling over will not be available in the EU due to this law.

[alpaca128]

This whole discussion is only a thing because Apple's tech isn't changing rapidly enough for regulation, the exact opposite of your scenario. Also good luck producing a functioning smartphone that's too thin for the USB-C connector before the EU can react (the new iPhone 14 has exactly 3 times the thickness, so it'll take a while).

The much more realistic reason for a new phone not being released here is the new proposal to enforce 5 years of replacement parts for all phones among other things.

[mgraczyk]

Serious question, why is is it a problem to put a tiny cable in a landfill? The amount they leach is essentially zero. The EU would have done more for the environment by spending $20k cleaning up an extra few car batteries. This is so obviously pandering and protectionism and it's surprising to me people believe the "e-waste" justification.

Seriously, is there an accounting of the environmental damage caused by cell phone cables (not power converters)? Everything I've seen points to the damage being substantially less globally than a single digit number of cars or batteries.

[crote]

The problem is that it is a lot of tiny cables, and a lot of chargers with them.

Additionally, it also protects the consumer by preventing companies from locking consumers into buying device-specific chargers at greatly inflated prices. It might even become common for devices to come without chargers: why have 10 chargers lying around when all your devices use the same charging connector?

[dwaite]

> It is also ironic how Apple markets heavily on how you can take great RAW photos or videos but somehow you have to use lightning USB2 speeds to transfer them. Lightning is barely smaller than USB-C, and clearly my iPhone thickness will not change if it switches to USB-C.

There is nothing about a USB-C cable or port that mandates SuperSpeed (err, 5GB or higher) data transfer rates. Most compliant charging cables are still Hi-Speed (480 mbps), and capped at 30W (higher requires an active component in the cable).

Similarly, there is nothing about Lightning that restricts the transfer speed to Hi-Speed. There were iPad Pro models with lightning that supported a USB 3 adapter, which had (I believe) 5 Gbps transfer speed. However, the decision was made to switch the subsequent generations of Pro models to USB-C, leaving that part as a bit of a curiosity.

I suspect because of the sheer volume of lightning cables out there, Apple simply doesn't want to cause confusion by creating 'tiers' of certified cables that have the same set of plugs on the ends and which thus look identical, but which have different properties. If only the USB-IF considered such things.

> If we want to really be more environmentally friendly, wouldn't it make more sense to have no cable at all with the devices we buy, force the sellers to clearly tell the consumers about it and offer the cable on the side only if needed?

One could hope! This should also shrink the packaging down further, having a measurable cost reduction on shipping as well as packaging waste.

I go through a lot of phones, but have relatives who are on a 3-4 year upgrade cycle. Thus, I've been able to find good homes for any excess USB-C to lightning cables (and they've been ecstatic when I've given them powerful multi-port USB-C chargers as gifts as well).

Hopefully we'll see countries continue to change their laws so that you don't need to bundle cables, chargers and/or headsets with purchases. France I believe finally changed their laws requiring a bundled headset, and it went into effect this year.

> I would also add that all lightning cables won't suddenly go to the landfill in 2024. Many people will keep their iPhones/AirPods for a while after that date. Many would probably donate their old lightning cables to whoever needs them

I'd expect the vast majority to be trashed by 2029, along with the majority of USB-A chargers. I've had support issues where family has thought their devices had bad software or failing batteries, but it turns out they had accidentally switched to some cheap, low wattage USB-A charger.

I somewhat expect the wide array of differences between USB-A, USB-C power delivery support, and active vs passive cables will mean that devices may start to give troubleshooting guidance for slow charging. At this point, I would expect quite a few USB-A chargers and cabling to go to the trash.