If you ever get invited to the "Future Investment Initiative" aka "Davos in the Desert", NEVER GO THERE.
More like "Despots in the Desert".
I feel for the Saudi people, but fuck their corrupt, useless monarchy. They could at least aspire to be Singapore, but I guess 100 gold-plated Rolls Royces and stupid giant infrastructure projects strokes the ego more - lame as fuck...
* Looks longingly at my invite to Davos in the Desert. *
* Let's it gingerly slip from my fingers into the fire pit, as a single tear falls in the flames. *
/jk.
Sarcasm aside, I don't understand why the West kowtows to Saudi's. I feel like maybe they were more culpable in 9/11 than previously thought, they are constantly doing shit, that even China would think twice about (they'd reeducate and do concentration camps, but perhaps not straight up executions).
I know it probably involves money, etc - but we need to put our partnerships with others to a smell test, if that country that wants to partner up, or do business with Americans has a horrible human rights record, they should be on the banned countries list like NK and Iran.
If only politics weren't legal organized crime, perhaps we could instill some values in our nations leaders and businesses to cease supporting despots.
The thing I find most heartbreaking is that I'm 99% sure this will go the way of the Jeddah Tower (too much corruption/dictatorship for clever plans to be made and the project gets cancelled).
It's also not the smartest project, a quick look at their website shows you genius ideas like this 170km long line they want to build in the middle of nowhere: https://www.neom.com/en-us/regions/theline
Not to mention that Saudi Arabia doesn't even have any issues with population density. They are building these cities like they have some overpopulation issues, such a waste of money. A shame it's not being spent on things that would help Saudi Arabia in the long term.
Neom might just be the best argument against totalitarianism, such stupid ideas wouldn't even be up for consideration in a free(er) country. Just looking at the website makes me so sad, it legitimately feels like some passion project of a megalomaniac who doesn't care for the wellbeing of his people.
If Ryugyong got finished, so will Jeddah. It's not smart investment, but in general monuments aren't. Yet, humanity learns to appreciate them non the less, even fully appreciating the "folly".
Their leader MBS completely got away with murdering Kashoggi in cold blood and having absolutely no repurcussions not even politically. The USA treats them as a first class political ally.
Most of 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
Between murdering reporters, hosting terrorist groups, and horrible human rights abuses....There's literally nothing Saudi Arabia can do to get any repercussions for anything.
Yes. Similarly, Pakistani intelligence knew where Bin Laden was. Oh wait, SOME Pakistani intelligence knew. The issue we're seeing is internecine conflict and a lack of effective governance. Saying the hijackers were Saudis so therefore the entire House of Saud is liable is reductive at best.
I'm not defending said House, but OTOH blaming the most public power base for everything associated with the country ignores the fact that they don't have control over their own power bases (much like Pakistan, a total s-hole that I can't wait until we're disengaged from).
Especially sad given that, in my opinion, this project is doomed to fail anyway— a 21st century Tower of Babel. The plans for a year-round ski resort seem especially ridiculous given the relatively mild climate in the Sarawat mountains.
The tricky thing about calling something a Tower of Babel is that it’s one thing to build the first one, it’s quite something else to build a second knowing about the first. This linear city idea is worse than the planned city they built in, Brazil? That was more 2 dimensional at least.
So this one goes up instead of out, but you’ll notice for instance the gap for the stadium. Stadiums are a bottleneck in regular cities. All traffic in the whole city has to drive past the stadium if they want to get somewhere on the other side, and with the gaps it’s a double choke point.
The Architect’s Sketch, Monty Python:
“Are you proposing to slaughter our tenants?” “… does that not fit in with your plan?” “[…] no it’s just that we wanted a block of flats, and not an abattoir” “Yes, well of course, that’s just the sort of blinkered, philistine pig-ignorance I’ve come to expect from you lot of non-creative garbage.”
The other candidate’s scale model breaks twice, and catches fire and then explodes. They decide that thin, sedentary tenants should avoid those problems.
I don't think that not traveling to Saudi Arabia will effect them at all. It's never really been a tourist destination unless you count Muslims on the haj. If you really want to protest then stop using oil. Sure most oil sold in the US isn't from SA, but if we started using a lot less of the stuff prices would go down and that would effect SA.
At this point, who would want to? Genuinely. I haven't any idea. I'm a huge F1 fan and F1 racing there feels like such a bizarre move, and it's one that has almost put me off the sport. Dirty money and F1 go together like mac and cheese but this feels like a new low for them.
So in other words, by doing nothing in particular. A protest where you don't change your behavior in any way and don't have to bear any cost is not much of a protest.
Actually, the best protest of Saudi Arabia was carried out by Mayoshi Son of SoftBank. He working with such people as Adam Neumann of WeWork lit billions of dollars worth of Saudi money on fire. A few more years of this, and Saudi won't be able to afford to do stunts like this.
This should be a reminder that the U.S. cares nothing for human rights violations and whenever it voices such complaints it does so for other selfish Geopolitical reasons that are maybe not revealed. This goes for any of the other Geopolitical powers as well. Let's not be useful idiots.
A better way to look at this is to recognize that geopolitics involve a multitude of political, economic, cultural, etc aspects. It's not that the US cares nothing for human rights violations, it's that we often prioritize different aspects. Caring does not imply a specific action.
Absolutely not trying to justify the relationship between the US and UAE. However, a maximalist position rarely leads to a positive change when so many parties and interests are involved.
The US is not monolitic. People who characterize it thusly do so do not capture the intentional-by-design unstable nature of the system. It remains, nonetheless, up to to 'us' to be not useful idiots.
The "line city" is possibly the worst idea of the 21st century. I will honestly be shocked if it goes over any better than the "world islands" they tried to build in Dubai.
I had not read this concept before now, but it really sounds as if someone played too much halo and didn't understand the real-world math that makes that a "good idea" in space.
In my eyes this appears to be further evidence as to why a combination or extreme wealth inequality and centralized authority is counterproductive to a nation's continued prosperity.
For all its concentration of wealth and authority, Saudia Arabia is clearly squandering its power in favor of misguided projects of ego.
I do not see a long-term future for a government such as this which has decided to behave in the same manner as a spoiled mewling child.
Personal guilty pleasure: love me some stupidendously wasteful ego driven mega monuments. A mega city in the desert even better. Not enough grand architecture by liberal world order. There are insideous human costs to everything, and all things considered, rare hubris mega construction projects are pretty good generational cultural value. Even after they fall into to ruin.
Sounds like normal day in Belarus or other less democratic country. I really don’t understand why these people choose death over other alternatives. It’s not that they didn’t know what is awaiting them. Killing some protesters is absolutely normal is less democratic country.
While Neom project is cool for sure I am not so sure if it’s clever one. But let’s see how this car-less city in a desert experiment ends. It’s better in my eyes than stealing all the oil money and buying yachts for the buddies like russian government did it.
The West stands for many things. The West also prioritizes different things at different times. Getting into a conflict with UAE while Europe is on the brink of a massive energy supply crisis would potentially weaken the West even more. I am sure the West is not loving the situation with human rights in UAE, but picks its battles wisely (albeit at the cost of human suffering in UAE).
If you care about this, now is the time to call your representatives. There is a sea change underway in Congress on Riyadh [1]. It’s on a precipice. This isn’t campaign-issue material. If Americans don’t care to reach out, the status quo will hold.
Yep, they're helping Europe replace some of the oil and gas from Russia. Best European friends these days! As long as they don't invade a neighbour they're great... oh wait, weren't they heavily involved in the worst war in the world at present, in Yemen, with over 150k dead and the prospect of 10 million dead of starvation directly caused by that [1]?! Right, but those people dying are not white European so no one gives a shit.
Everybody already knows about the impending breakup. All that's left is for the two parties to make it official.
The US is tired of the relationship, the Saudis are sort of getting along with Israel, and they are quipping about how they can get thier weapons from Russia.
I'm wondering why the USA hasn't used its military muscle to force regime change in Saudi Arabia. They have valuable resources, and I don't think any major country would stand in the USA's way.
The people already live under a brutal repressive dictatorship. Why not replace it with something more tolerable?
My best guess is that doing so would dramatically increase terrorism in the region.
Venezuela would be another area in need of intervention, IMO.
Update: I'm as anti-war as it gets, but consider: when is there a moral imperative to act? If you could stop the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, should you? If you can stop your neighbor from going on a murdering spree, should you?
[+] [-] nickpinkston|3 years ago|reply
More like "Despots in the Desert".
I feel for the Saudi people, but fuck their corrupt, useless monarchy. They could at least aspire to be Singapore, but I guess 100 gold-plated Rolls Royces and stupid giant infrastructure projects strokes the ego more - lame as fuck...
Sic Semper Tyrannis
[+] [-] gremlinsinc|3 years ago|reply
* Looks longingly at my invite to Davos in the Desert. *
* Let's it gingerly slip from my fingers into the fire pit, as a single tear falls in the flames. *
/jk.
Sarcasm aside, I don't understand why the West kowtows to Saudi's. I feel like maybe they were more culpable in 9/11 than previously thought, they are constantly doing shit, that even China would think twice about (they'd reeducate and do concentration camps, but perhaps not straight up executions).
I know it probably involves money, etc - but we need to put our partnerships with others to a smell test, if that country that wants to partner up, or do business with Americans has a horrible human rights record, they should be on the banned countries list like NK and Iran.
If only politics weren't legal organized crime, perhaps we could instill some values in our nations leaders and businesses to cease supporting despots.
[+] [-] nxmnxm99|3 years ago|reply
Why would they want to be Singapore?
[+] [-] rany_|3 years ago|reply
It's also not the smartest project, a quick look at their website shows you genius ideas like this 170km long line they want to build in the middle of nowhere: https://www.neom.com/en-us/regions/theline
Not to mention that Saudi Arabia doesn't even have any issues with population density. They are building these cities like they have some overpopulation issues, such a waste of money. A shame it's not being spent on things that would help Saudi Arabia in the long term.
[+] [-] rany_|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dirtyid|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cameronfraser|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edmcnulty101|3 years ago|reply
Most of 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
Between murdering reporters, hosting terrorist groups, and horrible human rights abuses....There's literally nothing Saudi Arabia can do to get any repercussions for anything.
[+] [-] aerostable_slug|3 years ago|reply
Yes. Similarly, Pakistani intelligence knew where Bin Laden was. Oh wait, SOME Pakistani intelligence knew. The issue we're seeing is internecine conflict and a lack of effective governance. Saying the hijackers were Saudis so therefore the entire House of Saud is liable is reductive at best.
I'm not defending said House, but OTOH blaming the most public power base for everything associated with the country ignores the fact that they don't have control over their own power bases (much like Pakistan, a total s-hole that I can't wait until we're disengaged from).
[+] [-] jshorty|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hinkley|3 years ago|reply
So this one goes up instead of out, but you’ll notice for instance the gap for the stadium. Stadiums are a bottleneck in regular cities. All traffic in the whole city has to drive past the stadium if they want to get somewhere on the other side, and with the gaps it’s a double choke point.
The Architect’s Sketch, Monty Python:
“Are you proposing to slaughter our tenants?” “… does that not fit in with your plan?” “[…] no it’s just that we wanted a block of flats, and not an abattoir” “Yes, well of course, that’s just the sort of blinkered, philistine pig-ignorance I’ve come to expect from you lot of non-creative garbage.”
The other candidate’s scale model breaks twice, and catches fire and then explodes. They decide that thin, sedentary tenants should avoid those problems.
[+] [-] iancmceachern|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] UncleOxidant|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Gene_Parmesan|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] deworms|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RcouF1uZ4gsC|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] burntbridge|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hey2022|3 years ago|reply
Absolutely not trying to justify the relationship between the US and UAE. However, a maximalist position rarely leads to a positive change when so many parties and interests are involved.
[+] [-] the_optimist|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yabones|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GauntletWizard|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SimianSci|3 years ago|reply
For all its concentration of wealth and authority, Saudia Arabia is clearly squandering its power in favor of misguided projects of ego. I do not see a long-term future for a government such as this which has decided to behave in the same manner as a spoiled mewling child.
[+] [-] dirtyid|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_optimist|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] angry-tempest|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lnsru|3 years ago|reply
While Neom project is cool for sure I am not so sure if it’s clever one. But let’s see how this car-less city in a desert experiment ends. It’s better in my eyes than stealing all the oil money and buying yachts for the buddies like russian government did it.
[+] [-] seer-zig|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ethotool|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hey2022|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] hulitu|3 years ago|reply
Whatever they do, they are still our friends and that's all that matters. /s
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|3 years ago|reply
If you care about this, now is the time to call your representatives. There is a sea change underway in Congress on Riyadh [1]. It’s on a precipice. This isn’t campaign-issue material. If Americans don’t care to reach out, the status quo will hold.
[1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/09/murphy-saudi-arabia...
[+] [-] brabel|3 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2014%E2%80%9...
[+] [-] selectodude|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] datavirtue|3 years ago|reply
The US is tired of the relationship, the Saudis are sort of getting along with Israel, and they are quipping about how they can get thier weapons from Russia.
[+] [-] deworms|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] case0x00|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tibbydudeza|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Abderrhmane|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] etaioinshrdlu|3 years ago|reply
The people already live under a brutal repressive dictatorship. Why not replace it with something more tolerable?
My best guess is that doing so would dramatically increase terrorism in the region.
Venezuela would be another area in need of intervention, IMO.
Update: I'm as anti-war as it gets, but consider: when is there a moral imperative to act? If you could stop the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, should you? If you can stop your neighbor from going on a murdering spree, should you?