We like to fingerwag at social media companies for knowingly negatively impacting children's mental health and self-esteem, yet Apple is aware of how their systems ostracize children, in their own peer groups, who can't afford to carry around luxury phones.
It's one thing to be ostracized by strangers on social media, it's an entirely other thing to be ostracized by your own friends and peers. The latter is tragically more personal and leaks into the real world with real world consequences.
(iPhone user here) It does seem to me that Apple isn't playing fair and this is no longer the technical issue it once was. Apple has so far refused to adopt RCS (the successor to SMS and MMS) which is now an industry standard for text messaging. Because of that, aside from the green bubble, the text messaging experience with non-iPhone users is subpar. Images and videos are compressed and things like tapback and group texts just stink.
I know the "green vs blue bubbles" gets a lot of press, but as someone who is not a teenager, and on the contrary is considerably past middle age at this point, that is not the real reason iMessage has a stranglehold on users.
I've got an Android, and I recently went on a vacation with a group of friends who all had iPhones. I did feel a bit like a leper in the group chat we had set up for our vacation, and it wasn't because of green and blue bubbles. Not only was the experience pretty broken for me, it essentially broke the experience of everyone else. I couldn't do emoji responses, which are a huge way folks communicate in group chats these days. Videos I received on my phone were essentially unwatchable. Videos or images I would send to the group would randomly just not show up on some people's phones. At the end of the vacation my good friend said flat out (jokingly, but still with a point) "Dammit hn_throwaway_99, just get an iPhone".
It's the breaking of group chats that makes iMessage the lynchpin of Apple's anticompetitive stance here.
It's worse than that. At our kids' school, they are required to have iPads for their school work. By default then, iMessage becomes pretty much the only game in town for them to message with their friends. If they want a phone that can also then participate in those conversations, iPhone is the only option, it's not even a choice. SMS isn't a thing, if you have any other phone, your friends with iPads only don't even have a phone number to send it to. Something like Discord is really the only other option, but that only seems to have any sort of mind share with kids who are more than just casual gamers.
I find it strange how iMessage has become so important (for lack of a better word) in the States. I have had to use it for the last 2-3 months, as WhatsApp cannot be installed on my not-updated older iOS anymore, and I have to say that WhatsApp is way better at doing the messaging thing than iMessage.
Granted, I'm in my early 40s and I honestly didn't know that there were different "bubble colours" when using iMessage (depending on the phones that are part of the conversation, that is).
Let’s not forget that on the original iPhone, all the bubbles were green because it only had sms. When iMessage came to the iPhone, Apple didn’t intend to rule the world with blue bubbles, blue was just an indication that you were talking to one of the few other iPhone users.
I love the idea that somewhere, there are a bunch of high-priced antitrust lawyers having multi-hour serious discussions and debates about green and blue bubbles.
My two high scoolers are produ members of Android generation and apparently dong give a damn as long as they get to play games and chat on discord and text with girls. I am going to count that as a win against the industrial marketing complex.
Who tf uses imessage? Its all whatsapp, telegram or fb messenger or discord here. Sweden. SMS is not used. Only for... passwords, spam and reminders for packages.
Anecdotally, my twins (both 17) have been asking for Android phones since they got their first phone at 14. I thought they’d be excited to get iPhones because I read reports and stories like this, but it doesn’t appear to be universal.
It's about as anti-competitive as you can get. Even putting aside the shortcomings of SMS, simply putting bright white text on an acid green background is visually nauseating. Why would a company that cares so much about aesthetic make this deliberately terrible visual design choice? If iPhone had a market share below 50%, this would be a terrible business decision. Turns out, since they have a very high market share, it's an excellent business decision.
> My two oldest children - 13 and 15 - have loudly proclaimed that having a "green bubble" would be worse than death.
They'll get over it quickly, since in reality (I also have two teens) all group chats with friends are "green bubble" chats because participants include Android users. They'll instead grow to loathe the "blue bubble" chats with their parents and/or guardians.
I hate apple with a passion for not opening up iMessage, but here we are.
That being said, I am getting my first iPhone in just a few days because I am sick of the 100000 choices between android phones that all suck in one way or another. I don't believe they will last more than a few years if my last samsung is any indication. And I don't give a crap about what android can do- I just want a phone that works.
So I guess you win Apple.. but it's criminal that a vast reason they have so much market share is because of imessage and the fact that it's "broken" with SMS to some degree.
I tried avoiding the iPhone bandwagon for practically a decade, going from flip phone to the HTC Droid Incredible, to some HTC M<#>, to Samsung S4, and then a series of Pixel phones, starting with the OG Pixel, and ending with the Pixel 3.
I have to say: besides a few clunky swipe experiences, the iPhone is better in every single way. The camera opens when I click the camera button. The phone pairs wonderfully with my airpods. With Android, the camera would inevitably lag after pressing the button, sometimes taking 10+ seconds to load, and making me miss a photo.
I've been a lifelong Android user but this problem is very real and has only gotten worse, and even with a brand new current-generation device it still takes 2-3+ seconds (sometimes up to 10 seconds like you mentioned) for the camera to open. Extremely infuriating. Does no higherups at Google use an Android phone and see this happening? Or maybe they just don't give a shit
I switched recently due to divorcing myself from Google services and products. Overall I've found the iPhone experience to be basically the same, but with a much worse notifications system.
> ...Pixel 3. ... The camera opens when I click the camera button.
I still have a Pixel 5 and one of my favorite features is double pressing the power button to activate the camera. It works so well that my camera is ready to go before I have even focused on the subject. I don’t know if this feature is available on an iPhone.
I was forced to iPhone 18 months ago and while it isn’t as bad as I’d feared, notifications just don’t seem right to me on iOS. I’m constantly missing things that I never would have on a Pixel.
I am on an Android bandwagon since first Samsung Galaxy. The sheer joy of being in a total control of my hardware and software is still here. I am installing some apps directly from vendors and thus avoiding big companies censorship. My current phone is more than four years old for now and I am thinking about buying a new one only because the battery is slightly degraded. This is just a phone, a tool, used mostly for communication (including right now).
For some users. If you somehow fall through the cracks or off the happy path of AirPods usage, modern iPhones that lack the headphone jack are miserable experiences. I've had enough struggles getting AirPods to connect to switch back to wired IEMs for good.
I don’t mind the Android OS but other than one of the Google models I had the handsets were crappy, with pocket dialling or freezing on the numeric pad to make a call, sometimes full of telco adware. I could only handle 3 years or so of it before switching back to iphone.
This claim seems a little odd to me. I searched more about it and found this article: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/01/06/gen-z-survey-says... from January saying the exact same thing as this fall survey, and this article form 2020 which says it was 86%: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/techland/apple-rules-86-pe... . I can't find an estimate for teen iPhone ownership besides this company but this just seems very high to me when you account for teens without a phone as well as non-iPhones. In comparison from what I can find about half of adults own an iPhone. The fact that it is this high and stable for several years seems suspect to me.
If not owning an iPhone really makes you the social outcast that some comments here are suggesting maybe people don't even admit to it for a marketing survey.
It's like a survey on how may times you have sex in a month.
Americans, do people not use whatsapp over there? In Europe everyone uses whatsapp for literally everything, with a sprinkling of Telegram if you are into something a little subversive and Signal if you actually care about privacy.
The only time I use text/sms is to recieve codes for things, and I'm doing that less and less.
When I was a teenager and mobile phones became widely available everyone had Nokia, Siemens or Sony-Ericsson, depending on how well-off the family was, it was either the old or new model. But we customized the phones as much as we could - custom ring melodies, screensavers, custom covers, if the phone didn't allow that then at least some stickers. Everyone wanted to be unique, go against the social norm.
Android phones are arguably equivalent in terms of functionality for what today's teenagers use (whatsapp, tiktok and camera), but offer much wider variety and a chance to stand out.
Why do the current US teenagers follow the herd in this regard?
This stuff scares me a bit, both because green bubble culture is creepy, and because I really do not want iOS to become the dominant mobile OS just as Android is becoming one of the most amazing platforms out there.
I have never understood the arguments that Apple doesn't have a monopoly or monopolies and thus should get away with all the anti-trust violations they get away with. They definitely have monopolies when it comes to market power and influence, even if Android phones (which are split across several manufacturers) have a larger worldwide market share.
This is the concept that's about to be tested in court. The majority of the revenue generating segment of the smartphone market is iOS while the majority of the overall smartphone market is Android. I get the sense that Apple did this on purpose but the Unity lawsuit may write a new chapter on what it means to be a monopoly. This Planet Money episode talks about this dilemma: https://www.npr.org/2020/09/18/914563075/apple-v-everybody
I see a lot of heat over SMS.
In Italy almost no one stil use SMSs, they are basically dead.
Almost all use Whatsapp, Telegram or both, no one use iMessage, not even iPhone owners, because smartphone market is much more balanced towards Android phones.
I'm an Android lifer and Apple's refusal to open iMessage is why I will not own an iPhone. That said, I'd willingly pay $5-10/mth for iMessage on Android. Apple has a number of services on Android now (including Apple Music & TV), it irritates me to no end they refuse to support this
The biggest concern I have from this is how comfortable the next generations will be in walled gardens where they are unable to look under the curtain let alone tinker.
So I have owned an Android all my life and never daily driven an iPhone. The iPhone (edit forgot the iPhone part) screen seems more responsive and very bright and colorful. To me the freedom of an unlocked phone I can put my own apps on is very important for me for Android. Why should I get an iPhone?
edit: not sure most teens care or are unaware of Android's around 3 years support length for a phone.
Interestingly, I am a heavy Apple user, and I am trying to convince my teenage daughter and wife to use iPhone and have offered them iPhone and Apple Watch, and they have strongly preferred to stay on Android. I think it's unsurprising most people use / want to use an iPhone in the US, because it has a network effect with iMessage and it's clearly a superior experience for the average person. But, globally that network effect doesn't exist, so it makes sense in a more international sense that many people would prefer being in the Android ecosystem.
The claim doesn't surprise me, but I definitely think it shouldn't be taken as universal.
Used Android since like the original HTC phone in my early teens, owned probably 6-7 android phones in my life (majority Google since the good old Nexus days). My first iPhone was the 12 and as of now, I think my kids first phone will be an iPhone. The walled garden is annoying and monopolistic but an iPhone just works. 2 years later, my iPhone is still going strong and I don’t even want to change my phone for the near future. They’re just built better and supported better. My family relentlessly complain about the Pixel 6 heat issues and plans on “upgrading” a year later.
I switched to the iPhone and, under some aspects… it’s so much better. I had an iPhone for on call duty previously.
If you see the phone as just a tool, the iphone has no rivals.
It either can or cannot do something. You don’t have to evaluate seven different brands.
The ui is okay, and once you get used to it you’ll 99.9% recognise the ui in the next iphone.
It’s small! The iphone se is beautifully small. Yet fast and snappy.
And the next time I can get the next iphone without thinking too much. Which is huge. Xiaomi today might be good, and xiaomi tomorrow might be trash. Same for samsung. Same for pixel.
My kids have iPhones because they inherit ours when we upgrade. I suspect it's the same with many other parents. And: Much easier to provide support, share photos, reimburse them/send money, and do many other things that would be frustrating with Android.
I remember when Steve Jobs apologized to parents for unapproved in-app purchases and promised to do something about it. And they did. That resonated with me. I think the company still cares, as evidenced by its support options and privacy requirements.
When I still bought Android devices they tended to be problematic. Probably HTC and Xiaomi were the best designed, but updates were a pain especially on the Hongmi. LG camera sucked. Google Nexus had screen problems and eventually bricked, with no support options. I think I got my son a "Blu" phone at one point, which just had bad performance. Was happy to give him my iPhone 6 and move up to an 8.
Green bubbles are disgusting, to the point where you won’t be allowed to certain events or parties if you RSVP with a green bubble. You’ll just never get a response back, don’t even bother. It’s a way to gate keep. There is even an androidphobic slur for those who text in green bubbles, that I won’t repeat here. Ask your kids.
[+] [-] rsync|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] heavyset_go|3 years ago|reply
It's one thing to be ostracized by strangers on social media, it's an entirely other thing to be ostracized by your own friends and peers. The latter is tragically more personal and leaks into the real world with real world consequences.
[+] [-] m348e912|3 years ago|reply
https://www.android.com/get-the-message/
[+] [-] hn_throwaway_99|3 years ago|reply
I've got an Android, and I recently went on a vacation with a group of friends who all had iPhones. I did feel a bit like a leper in the group chat we had set up for our vacation, and it wasn't because of green and blue bubbles. Not only was the experience pretty broken for me, it essentially broke the experience of everyone else. I couldn't do emoji responses, which are a huge way folks communicate in group chats these days. Videos I received on my phone were essentially unwatchable. Videos or images I would send to the group would randomly just not show up on some people's phones. At the end of the vacation my good friend said flat out (jokingly, but still with a point) "Dammit hn_throwaway_99, just get an iPhone".
It's the breaking of group chats that makes iMessage the lynchpin of Apple's anticompetitive stance here.
[+] [-] throwaway773748|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paganel|3 years ago|reply
Granted, I'm in my early 40s and I honestly didn't know that there were different "bubble colours" when using iMessage (depending on the phones that are part of the conversation, that is).
[+] [-] twobitshifter|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shawabawa3|3 years ago|reply
My experience in the UK and France is WhatsApp/telegram have basically 100% penetration and SMS is only used by businesses and 2fa
[+] [-] atonse|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danielodievich|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tiborsaas|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rejectfinite|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cgearhart|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway292939|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] J5892|3 years ago|reply
But it's great for people like me, because I'm much less likely to be added to a family group text.
[+] [-] bloppe|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CharlesW|3 years ago|reply
They'll get over it quickly, since in reality (I also have two teens) all group chats with friends are "green bubble" chats because participants include Android users. They'll instead grow to loathe the "blue bubble" chats with their parents and/or guardians.
[+] [-] eatsyourtacos|3 years ago|reply
That being said, I am getting my first iPhone in just a few days because I am sick of the 100000 choices between android phones that all suck in one way or another. I don't believe they will last more than a few years if my last samsung is any indication. And I don't give a crap about what android can do- I just want a phone that works.
So I guess you win Apple.. but it's criminal that a vast reason they have so much market share is because of imessage and the fact that it's "broken" with SMS to some degree.
[+] [-] fortylove|3 years ago|reply
I have to say: besides a few clunky swipe experiences, the iPhone is better in every single way. The camera opens when I click the camera button. The phone pairs wonderfully with my airpods. With Android, the camera would inevitably lag after pressing the button, sometimes taking 10+ seconds to load, and making me miss a photo.
I don't miss Androids/.
[+] [-] wildrhythms|3 years ago|reply
I've been a lifelong Android user but this problem is very real and has only gotten worse, and even with a brand new current-generation device it still takes 2-3+ seconds (sometimes up to 10 seconds like you mentioned) for the camera to open. Extremely infuriating. Does no higherups at Google use an Android phone and see this happening? Or maybe they just don't give a shit
[+] [-] tomtheelder|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] binkHN|3 years ago|reply
I still have a Pixel 5 and one of my favorite features is double pressing the power button to activate the camera. It works so well that my camera is ready to go before I have even focused on the subject. I don’t know if this feature is available on an iPhone.
[+] [-] grosswait|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dopeboy|3 years ago|reply
You can feel the dedication and craftsmanship with the iPhone.
[+] [-] SergeAx|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cheq|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dont__panic|3 years ago|reply
For some users. If you somehow fall through the cracks or off the happy path of AirPods usage, modern iPhones that lack the headphone jack are miserable experiences. I've had enough struggles getting AirPods to connect to switch back to wired IEMs for good.
[+] [-] quickthrower2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neaden|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phatfish|3 years ago|reply
It's like a survey on how may times you have sex in a month.
[+] [-] currenciessfe|3 years ago|reply
Showing an Android is basically declaring you are some sort of a monster.
[+] [-] bloqs|3 years ago|reply
The only time I use text/sms is to recieve codes for things, and I'm doing that less and less.
[+] [-] frant-hartm|3 years ago|reply
Android phones are arguably equivalent in terms of functionality for what today's teenagers use (whatsapp, tiktok and camera), but offer much wider variety and a chance to stand out.
Why do the current US teenagers follow the herd in this regard?
[+] [-] eternityforest|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bmitc|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hangonhn|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abigail95|3 years ago|reply
Is the point you're making that that Apple shouldn't be allowed to release its own messaging app?
What's the anti-trust violation here?
[+] [-] CollinEMac|3 years ago|reply
Is VR really getting that popular?
[+] [-] albertopv|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] b0tch7|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elif|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chadd|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sbuk|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] csdreamer7|3 years ago|reply
edit: not sure most teens care or are unaware of Android's around 3 years support length for a phone.
[+] [-] tristor|3 years ago|reply
The claim doesn't surprise me, but I definitely think it shouldn't be taken as universal.
[+] [-] syntaxing|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] znpy|3 years ago|reply
If you see the phone as just a tool, the iphone has no rivals.
It either can or cannot do something. You don’t have to evaluate seven different brands.
The ui is okay, and once you get used to it you’ll 99.9% recognise the ui in the next iphone.
It’s small! The iphone se is beautifully small. Yet fast and snappy.
And the next time I can get the next iphone without thinking too much. Which is huge. Xiaomi today might be good, and xiaomi tomorrow might be trash. Same for samsung. Same for pixel.
No wonder.
[+] [-] nemothekid|3 years ago|reply
I will gladly take that over the next generation being completely plugged into the ad tech surveillance machine.
[+] [-] ilamont|3 years ago|reply
I remember when Steve Jobs apologized to parents for unapproved in-app purchases and promised to do something about it. And they did. That resonated with me. I think the company still cares, as evidenced by its support options and privacy requirements.
When I still bought Android devices they tended to be problematic. Probably HTC and Xiaomi were the best designed, but updates were a pain especially on the Hongmi. LG camera sucked. Google Nexus had screen problems and eventually bricked, with no support options. I think I got my son a "Blu" phone at one point, which just had bad performance. Was happy to give him my iPhone 6 and move up to an 8.
[+] [-] xwdv|3 years ago|reply