[deamanto]

Hey just wanted to say that I really appreciate this comment and it's an opinion I haven't seen shared before even though in hindsight it's obvious.

I personally have chosen not to have kids - one reason is doomer level but the other is time and independence. I have a dog that is a relatively (to kids) minor responsibility but in my day to day life feels like the biggest responsibility, I compare that to having a kid which I would say is a lot more and I wouldn't want to take on as I've already experienced a dog and that is as far as I'd go. But while you haven't changed my mind, you have negated a lot of my feelings towards a previously thought "lifelong responsibility"

[morgtheborg]

I have a dog. I totally thought having a kid would be like having a dog. In the sense that I do a bunch of shit with my dog that I don't necessarily want to do and she is often a burden to things I want to do (mainly travel) but, in aggregate, is worth it. And if having a kid was that negative shit multiplied by some large x with similar or even higher positives, it would be a huge no go. Happily I got the dog a month before I got pregnant.

And it is not the same at all. So many things I do for my dog I do out of obligation. I do not often want to walk her. Once I'm walking her or going to the dog park or whatever, I have a nice time but I don't naturally WANT to do it.

In contrast, I want, like actively WANT, to do all sorts of absurdly unpleasant things for my eight month old. And society is set up to bring kids to all sorts of activities my dog can't go to --- despite my pup being sig more pleasant to have out and about than my baby.

I will say I think a sig portion is hormonal. I would say having a kid was a genuine metamorphosis for me. In contrast, I think my husband had more of a dog-like sense of obligation and is only recently enjoying the kid.

As sexist as it may sound, I'd suggest most women who are financially stable with good partners to have at least one kid because I am shocked, utterly shocked, by the fundamental shift in self I've experienced and, frankly, it's cool. Life is short. It's a cool, unique experience worth having.

But men? Unless they actively want kids, I'd suggest staying away from it --- the sacrifice to their relationships, lives, etc. seems sig harder to bear since they don't seem to have quite the same hit to their hormones. As my husband says, I take care of baby and he takes care of me. Who takes care of him? I try but baby comes first. That's a hard hit for a man not excited for kids (thankfully my husband is and remains so).

[novok]

As the traditional formula goes, you take care of the household. Food, cleanup, chores, shopping, calling the repair guy, etc. Especially as you start getting more free time and school starts acting as a baby sitter.

[popularrecluse]

Well another thought is that the only way to revert this so-called doomerist path is to choose to have and raise kids with empathy for others and with care towards the natural world they've inherited.

Because the people who don't give a shit ain't going to stop having them.

[gday2020]

Raising them with good values doesn't mean that they will keep those throughout their life, unfortunately. Quite risky to bet on that.

[hattmall]

Having a dog is legitimately more than a kid 90% of the time if it's an indoor dog you treat like a kid. It's different, but constant and the dog never becomes self sufficient. It's also more challenging to travel with them.

[D13Fd]

With 4 kids and a dog, I tell people this, but no one believes me. Dogs can absolutely be harder than kids a lot of the time.

[sam345]

I'm sorry I have had both kids and dogs. Dogs are WAY easier and less expensive than kids. On the positive side, kids are 1000% worth it and are with you for your lifetime. There is very little comparison between the two Why are kids compared with pets? . Would anybody compare a spouse with a dog ? Such comparisons are demeaning to both sides of the equation.

[xwdv]

I have found dogs are more of a pain in the ass than kids. Having a dog is like having a kid that is stuck in the early toddler years in terms of effort IMO. Also far less rewarding, as a dog won’t really change much over time once it gets to adulthood fairly quickly.

If you could have a dog for some significant length of time, a kid will be no problem by comparison.

[theGnuMe]

Dogs really need a job. They were domesticated to work along side us. Any owner should invest in training them.

Ironically, it is kind of the same with kids, kids really need a job and cultures that put the kids to work doing chores and things at an early age seem to raise better adjusted kids.

[throwaway44111]

But not in terms of $$$

[sshine]

I've heard having a dog is like having a kid that never grows up.

In some ways they're always more independent of a child. In some ways they never will be.

[knaekhoved]

A big whitepill and motivation to have kids is to recognize that the Turkheimer laws are correct. If on net you like your own traits, whatever they are, and you want more of those traits to be present in the world, good news - having biological children is an almost surefire way to do so, even if you don't put a ton of effort into it.