Not going to lie, this seems to scratch an itch I haven't thought about since the days of the Pocket C.H.I.P. If the keyboard is even remotely useable, I am interested.
Immediately went to buy, and I'm really not clear on what I should be buying. There are three different varieties and it's hard to tell what the differences are.
On the "little machine for custom jobs" front, can anyone suggest a low cost subnotebook, x86-64 or ARM (i.e. Chromebooks OK) where I can wipe the Google software and install some version of Ubuntu? I've been using EeePC Seashell machines for that for years, but they're wearing out and I need something close to current production.
I'm looking for a machine where there's not too much difficulty doing this. That varies with the machine. Some require removing a jumper to let you overwrite the OS. Some require overwriting flash memory with somewhat sketchy binaries.
I suggest picking a machine from https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices , filtered to the ones that support the full "UEFI Firmware". Conveniently, this also lists the needed method to make the firmware r/w if you care about that. Of course, this depends on you considering MrChromebox non-sketchy, but he is AFAIK reputable and if you prefer all the source is on GitHub.
Oh, and annoyingly I suggest that you avoid ARM Chromebooks; firmware support and OS options aren't there (yet, I dearly hope).
It's not as small as your EeePC, but I very much enjoy my PineBook Pro [1]. I'm running Manjaro Plasma KDE on mine, and I can do just about all I want, dev wise on it: docker, ddev, vscode, firefox, chromium, LibreOffice, etc. It's about as powerful as a mid-tier Chromebook.
I have a Thinkpad X120e Chromebook that still kicks with Gallium OS on it. I think you can pick those up for about $50 USD now. There's a Chromebook version and a "regular" version.
The older GPD Micro PC can be found for a bit cheaper than their newer ones. But they're likely more expensive than you are looking for I think! Though on the other hand, they're very easy to run whatever OS you want on them
I vaguely feel like there's an alternative version of me that, like, 10 years ago resisted the urge to get a smartphone and now owns something like this.
But for the actual me, I can't see the point really.
Maybe I’m naive but what exactly is this? I couldn’t figure anything out from the website other than it’s a handheld device that shows a text console. What is a “fantasy console”? Why would a indie game developer want one of these devices?
It's a small linux handheld with a slightly anemic ARM cpu, a full keyboard, and metal case.
There are various "fantasy consoles" people make video games on, like the piko-8^1 (which the indie darling Celeste was originally developed for) and the TIC-80^2 (Providing a more PC-like experience). It might be best to think of them as emulators for computers/devices that never existed. Some platonic ideal of game consoles past. They're often programed in LUA and provide limited RAM/Display-resolution/palette-depth, etc, in order to provide a retro feel while not requiring you to program in actual assembly.
Personally I'd be more interested in this as a field-device/development-environment/tricorder type unit. It seems like a great unit to hook a chip programmer up to, or one of those open-source FPGA-based oscilloscopes, or other lab instrumentation.
A "fantasy [retro game] console" is an abstract machine (like the JVM is an abstract machine, or like the Flash runtime is an abstract machine, or like BASIC is an abstract machine) with two key properties:
1. it's compute-resource-constrained — so you can't just transpile DOOM into the "fantasy console's" native programming language / bytecode ISA and expect it to run well, but instead have to learn to program directly for the console's native programming language or ISA — close to the (abstract) metal — to do anything of note with it;
2. it exposes low-level "primitive" features in its native programming language / bytecode ISA, in the form of system calls or MMIO registers, to accelerate graphics/sound operations without consuming (abstract) CPU cycles; thus allowing games developed for the console to run well at 30/60FPS, despite the resource constraints. Where usually these calls are themselves constrained to only allow for "retro"-style output (e.g. allowing audio only in the form of a set number of square-wave frequency channels.)
In other words, a "fantasy [retro game] console" attempts to achieve a similar set of "artistic constraints" for game development that you get from developing for a real retro game console, like the NES or Gameboy. Except that the artistic constraints imposed by fantasy consoles are usually not low-level technical constraints in the system's (theoretical) microarchitecture, but rather arbitrary policy-based constraints imposed by the abstract-machine standard on conforming implementations, and therefore are often less frustrating things to be worked around (think: memory bank switching), and instead are more inspiring constraints to be embraced to fuel the creative process when making a game (think: limited color palette per art asset.)
Or you can think of it like this: what if the Super Nintendo never existed, but there still ended up being "SNES emulators" that all agreed on how they should interpret/run "SNES ROMs" — all implementations of a shared abstract-machine standard? Developers would then be producing "SNES games" not to run on a physical SNES, but instead solely so that you could then run them on a compatible emulator. Although, in theory, nothing would stop someone from making a real hardware SNES conforming to the abstract-machine standard — and then SNES ROMs would work on it as well. That's a "fantasy console."
For a given fantasy console, there may or may not be any physical-hardware implementations; though usually there aren't. A well-known example of a "fantasy console" with only virtual implementations (i.e. emulators) is the PICO-8 (https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php). While there are hardware devices that present themselves "as" a PICO-8 "console", they do this by using some other ISA to run a full OS kernel, which then launches into a userland PICO-8 emulator. There is no hardware device whose CPU+BIOS enables it to natively execute PICO-8 code. (It's the difference between a NES Classic, and an actual NES.)
Meanwhile, this thing — the uConsole — isn't a "fantasy console" itself, per se (i.e. they're using the term wrong), but rather a device focused on running multiple fantasy-console emulators, which therefore doesn't even attempt to present itself as being any particular "fantasy console's" hardware. It's basically just one of the many "retro handheld" devices out of Shenzhen recently (which often ship with fantasy-console emulators) — except this one's got a keyboard! :P
A fun example of a more true hardware "fantasy console", where the hardware is itself an implementation of a particular fantasy-console abstract machine (and where the abstract-machine standard and the hardware implementation were co-developed to make this possible), is the https://www.commanderx16.com/ — which is both a fantasy-console in its full capabilities, but is also a backward-compatible superset of the abstract-machine model of a Commodore 64, and so compatible with Commodore 64 software/games (so this abstract-machine can also be thought of as an "enhanced" Commodore 64 — like how the Gameboy Color was an "enhanced" Gameboy — making "enhanced ports" of Commodore 64 games an especially easy/interesting project.)
The Steam Deck is a fantastic console for indie game developers, IMO. World class hardware, you can program your game on it, test on it, and ship on it.
I like little consoles like this but I never get one because I'm almost certain it would be novel and almost nobody I know would end up having one, unfortunately.
Update: and, importantly for the Steam Deck, you have a wide player base out of the box. Maybe not as much for the Deck itself (yet) but definitely on all three PC platforms.
I've been looking for something like this for use as a serial terminal in the datacenter, with a bit of additional features (e.g. quickly starting up a DHCP server on the LAN port or similar)
Are there similar terminal devices that already include one or two DB9 serial connectors?
ClockworkPi also do kits for a device called DevTerm. I have one, I like it a lot. Keyboard is... not great. But you can make your own expansion boards.
This is the kind of device designed to look so attractive for certain people that it would be an impulse buy: metal case, exposed screws, lots of ports for peripherals, full (mechanical?) keyboard and lots of buttons, a nice built in screen, raspberry PI inside… it’s like you’re describing an attractive woman.
But when you go beyond that, what is the point of this? Why is an indie game developer going to build things for this particular niche platform? In the end, I would buy this and it would just end up as another random device in a drawer. Nice aesthetic, but useless.
> Why is an indie game developer going to build things for this particular niche platform?
This is a linux computer where the terminal is the primary intended interface. Anything you can run on ARM and linux (like everything in retropie) should be supported out of the box. Terminal-based games don't need fancy GPU drivers and optimizations like the Steam Deck. There should be no porting needed except maybe some keymapping for the non-keyboard buttons, but that's normal.
FSV of useless, maybe. In theory, there's a market for retro game designers who would appreciate this device for their hobby.
Kind of tempted to buy it myself to replace late night or in-bed usage of mindless scrolling of Twitter and Reddit. [Edit: I guess this part is right in their headline: "bedroom programmers".]
> But when you go beyond that, what is the point of this?
I don't like the idea that every tech purchase must somehow prove its worth or be measured as "worthy" somehow - if you enjoy devices like these and like collecting them - have at it!
Some of the things I enjoy most are frankly "pointless" in the eyes of most; don't let this stop you. You aren't buying a life-changing large purchase like a house or a car here. Sometimes these things work out, sometimes they don't.
The point of devices such as this is often that they indeed have no specific point... they are for fun as much as anything else you can think up.
With a bit of a broken heart I have to concur. Tiny screen, tiny keyboard, usability not included. I still kid myself after all those years that I will actually use my old EeePC for a "cool retro something" - even had DOS installed and made wired Ethernet work! - but nope, it's just painful. And that thing actually has a keyboard not designed to be operated with a stylus!
The catch is that every single part of the system is some kind of janky hack job.
I have one of their GameShell devices. The things on the sides that look like knob controls are actually clasps to hold the thing together. Took me a week just to figure out how to SSH into the thing. Screen resolution and picture quality is really bad. All of the buttons feel awful, with a lot of latency on presses. WiFi just craps out whenever you breath a little hard on it. Performance is about like trying to run modern Linux on a 15 year old PC. Lots of fantasy consoles preloaded, but the screen, performance, and buttons all add up to making it a terrible experience, and there are only one or two good games for each, anyway. Lots of very poorly implemented PyGame games that have such neat features as "no way to kill the process from within the app to return to the main menu" and none of them are actually even close to good ideas, say nothing about complete or decent games.
Iffy software support. If you look at the Clockwork Pi forums there's a lot of complaints about a lack of updates. There's some community support for alternate/upgraded software, but the user base is small enough that we're talking "download a ZIP file from a rando who says it works for him". It's DIY but also "figure it out yourself".
I bought both a DevTerm a04 and DevTerm r01. The catch is software support (if this is going to be similar to other clockwork pi products using the same modules), which is entirely left up to the community. With that said, the community mostly supports the a06 and RPi CMs. Their hardware is actually quite good, as is customer support for that hardware. Just be advised that anything other than Rpi and a06 are going to be very rough on the software side of the house.
I really want to like this kind of devices, but... seriously, this keyboard seems very uncomfortable to type with, and the "pad buttons" to play games look even worse!
It's an interesting little computer that I would love to try once, but very likely wouldn't spend money on it.
I see a big chip straight between mipi screen socket and compute module doing hdmi-mipi conversion, telling me rpi foundation is still stubbornly fighting ability to use mipi dsi port on the pi.
It looks very cool and would love to find a use for it to justify buying it. Id love to use it as a dedicated device but does it instant boot? Does it at least hybernate properly?
On my similar Devqterm, ambian takes around 30s to boot. There might be hibernation, but I don't use it. I actually like the quasi-instant system shutdown you get with the physical power off button (though I'm sure it's reprogrammable)
Is there an ETA on when this would actually ship? I'm very tempted to order one, but I've already been waiting a good long while for a different handheld device with a physical keyboard (Astro Slide 5G) so I ain't exactly keen on doubling that number unless there's some timeline for these getting out the door.
ON e photo shows what looks like a radio spectrum, which I'm guessing came from the optional 4G LTE modem. It would be great if that modem could be used as a generic SDR, putting programmable sniffing capabilities in a small portable device.
If it helps you temper your hype: it looks like the keyboard is made the same way as the devterm, but smaller, and the devterm keyboard is already a mushy mess of tiny keys.
And I've used good tiny keyboards, but that is not really it.
[+] [-] crims0n|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] traverseda|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cptcobalt|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|3 years ago|reply
On the "little machine for custom jobs" front, can anyone suggest a low cost subnotebook, x86-64 or ARM (i.e. Chromebooks OK) where I can wipe the Google software and install some version of Ubuntu? I've been using EeePC Seashell machines for that for years, but they're wearing out and I need something close to current production.
I'm looking for a machine where there's not too much difficulty doing this. That varies with the machine. Some require removing a jumper to let you overwrite the OS. Some require overwriting flash memory with somewhat sketchy binaries.
[+] [-] yjftsjthsd-h|3 years ago|reply
I suggest picking a machine from https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices , filtered to the ones that support the full "UEFI Firmware". Conveniently, this also lists the needed method to make the firmware r/w if you care about that. Of course, this depends on you considering MrChromebox non-sketchy, but he is AFAIK reputable and if you prefer all the source is on GitHub.
Oh, and annoyingly I suggest that you avoid ARM Chromebooks; firmware support and OS options aren't there (yet, I dearly hope).
[+] [-] wingmanjd|3 years ago|reply
[1] https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/Pinebook_Pro
[+] [-] ranger47|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] girvo|3 years ago|reply
http://www.gpd.hk/
The older GPD Micro PC can be found for a bit cheaper than their newer ones. But they're likely more expensive than you are looking for I think! Though on the other hand, they're very easy to run whatever OS you want on them
[+] [-] bee_rider|3 years ago|reply
But for the actual me, I can't see the point really.
[+] [-] barnabee|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gergi|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] traverseda|3 years ago|reply
There are various "fantasy consoles" people make video games on, like the piko-8^1 (which the indie darling Celeste was originally developed for) and the TIC-80^2 (Providing a more PC-like experience). It might be best to think of them as emulators for computers/devices that never existed. Some platonic ideal of game consoles past. They're often programed in LUA and provide limited RAM/Display-resolution/palette-depth, etc, in order to provide a retro feel while not requiring you to program in actual assembly.
Personally I'd be more interested in this as a field-device/development-environment/tricorder type unit. It seems like a great unit to hook a chip programmer up to, or one of those open-source FPGA-based oscilloscopes, or other lab instrumentation.
1: https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php
2: https://tic80.com/
[+] [-] derefr|3 years ago|reply
1. it's compute-resource-constrained — so you can't just transpile DOOM into the "fantasy console's" native programming language / bytecode ISA and expect it to run well, but instead have to learn to program directly for the console's native programming language or ISA — close to the (abstract) metal — to do anything of note with it;
2. it exposes low-level "primitive" features in its native programming language / bytecode ISA, in the form of system calls or MMIO registers, to accelerate graphics/sound operations without consuming (abstract) CPU cycles; thus allowing games developed for the console to run well at 30/60FPS, despite the resource constraints. Where usually these calls are themselves constrained to only allow for "retro"-style output (e.g. allowing audio only in the form of a set number of square-wave frequency channels.)
In other words, a "fantasy [retro game] console" attempts to achieve a similar set of "artistic constraints" for game development that you get from developing for a real retro game console, like the NES or Gameboy. Except that the artistic constraints imposed by fantasy consoles are usually not low-level technical constraints in the system's (theoretical) microarchitecture, but rather arbitrary policy-based constraints imposed by the abstract-machine standard on conforming implementations, and therefore are often less frustrating things to be worked around (think: memory bank switching), and instead are more inspiring constraints to be embraced to fuel the creative process when making a game (think: limited color palette per art asset.)
Or you can think of it like this: what if the Super Nintendo never existed, but there still ended up being "SNES emulators" that all agreed on how they should interpret/run "SNES ROMs" — all implementations of a shared abstract-machine standard? Developers would then be producing "SNES games" not to run on a physical SNES, but instead solely so that you could then run them on a compatible emulator. Although, in theory, nothing would stop someone from making a real hardware SNES conforming to the abstract-machine standard — and then SNES ROMs would work on it as well. That's a "fantasy console."
For a given fantasy console, there may or may not be any physical-hardware implementations; though usually there aren't. A well-known example of a "fantasy console" with only virtual implementations (i.e. emulators) is the PICO-8 (https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php). While there are hardware devices that present themselves "as" a PICO-8 "console", they do this by using some other ISA to run a full OS kernel, which then launches into a userland PICO-8 emulator. There is no hardware device whose CPU+BIOS enables it to natively execute PICO-8 code. (It's the difference between a NES Classic, and an actual NES.)
Meanwhile, this thing — the uConsole — isn't a "fantasy console" itself, per se (i.e. they're using the term wrong), but rather a device focused on running multiple fantasy-console emulators, which therefore doesn't even attempt to present itself as being any particular "fantasy console's" hardware. It's basically just one of the many "retro handheld" devices out of Shenzhen recently (which often ship with fantasy-console emulators) — except this one's got a keyboard! :P
A fun example of a more true hardware "fantasy console", where the hardware is itself an implementation of a particular fantasy-console abstract machine (and where the abstract-machine standard and the hardware implementation were co-developed to make this possible), is the https://www.commanderx16.com/ — which is both a fantasy-console in its full capabilities, but is also a backward-compatible superset of the abstract-machine model of a Commodore 64, and so compatible with Commodore 64 software/games (so this abstract-machine can also be thought of as an "enhanced" Commodore 64 — like how the Gameboy Color was an "enhanced" Gameboy — making "enhanced ports" of Commodore 64 games an especially easy/interesting project.)
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] agentultra|3 years ago|reply
I like little consoles like this but I never get one because I'm almost certain it would be novel and almost nobody I know would end up having one, unfortunately.
Update: and, importantly for the Steam Deck, you have a wide player base out of the box. Maybe not as much for the Deck itself (yet) but definitely on all three PC platforms.
[+] [-] dark-star|3 years ago|reply
Are there similar terminal devices that already include one or two DB9 serial connectors?
[+] [-] pringk02|3 years ago|reply
https://www.clockworkpi.com/devterm
[+] [-] wvenable|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xwdv|3 years ago|reply
But when you go beyond that, what is the point of this? Why is an indie game developer going to build things for this particular niche platform? In the end, I would buy this and it would just end up as another random device in a drawer. Nice aesthetic, but useless.
[+] [-] humanistbot|3 years ago|reply
This is a linux computer where the terminal is the primary intended interface. Anything you can run on ARM and linux (like everything in retropie) should be supported out of the box. Terminal-based games don't need fancy GPU drivers and optimizations like the Steam Deck. There should be no porting needed except maybe some keymapping for the non-keyboard buttons, but that's normal.
[+] [-] AnIdiotOnTheNet|3 years ago|reply
Don't underestimate the "collecting cool things in a drawer" crowd.
[+] [-] felideon|3 years ago|reply
FSV of useless, maybe. In theory, there's a market for retro game designers who would appreciate this device for their hobby.
Kind of tempted to buy it myself to replace late night or in-bed usage of mindless scrolling of Twitter and Reddit. [Edit: I guess this part is right in their headline: "bedroom programmers".]
[+] [-] giobox|3 years ago|reply
I don't like the idea that every tech purchase must somehow prove its worth or be measured as "worthy" somehow - if you enjoy devices like these and like collecting them - have at it!
Some of the things I enjoy most are frankly "pointless" in the eyes of most; don't let this stop you. You aren't buying a life-changing large purchase like a house or a car here. Sometimes these things work out, sometimes they don't.
The point of devices such as this is often that they indeed have no specific point... they are for fun as much as anything else you can think up.
[+] [-] drbig|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] traverseda|3 years ago|reply
Very similar interfaces as the tic-80, and no doubt pico-8 compatible. There's already a software/games library, plus it runs normal linux.
[+] [-] incomingpain|3 years ago|reply
You have this problem as well? mmm technolust.
[+] [-] rasz|3 years ago|reply
smd dome switches with rubber cover, as mechanical as ZX Spectrum keyboard
[+] [-] incomingpain|3 years ago|reply
Too good to be true. What's the catch?
[+] [-] moron4hire|3 years ago|reply
I have one of their GameShell devices. The things on the sides that look like knob controls are actually clasps to hold the thing together. Took me a week just to figure out how to SSH into the thing. Screen resolution and picture quality is really bad. All of the buttons feel awful, with a lot of latency on presses. WiFi just craps out whenever you breath a little hard on it. Performance is about like trying to run modern Linux on a 15 year old PC. Lots of fantasy consoles preloaded, but the screen, performance, and buttons all add up to making it a terrible experience, and there are only one or two good games for each, anyway. Lots of very poorly implemented PyGame games that have such neat features as "no way to kill the process from within the app to return to the main menu" and none of them are actually even close to good ideas, say nothing about complete or decent games.
[+] [-] djur|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BirAdam|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reustle|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CrociDB|3 years ago|reply
It's an interesting little computer that I would love to try once, but very likely wouldn't spend money on it.
[+] [-] rasz|3 years ago|reply
even hilariously bad Commodore plus/4 had better usability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Plus/4#/media/File:C...
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] low_tech_punk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rasz|3 years ago|reply
I see a big chip straight between mipi screen socket and compute module doing hdmi-mipi conversion, telling me rpi foundation is still stubbornly fighting ability to use mipi dsi port on the pi.
[+] [-] tartoran|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jgtrosh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zvez|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yellowapple|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dewey|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reustle|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dewey|3 years ago|reply
https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/uconsole-kit-r-01
[+] [-] felideon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JoeDaDude|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giobox|3 years ago|reply
With the Pi CM4 module installed, there are loads of options that will work just using the USB port.
[+] [-] omgmajk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jgtrosh|3 years ago|reply
And I've used good tiny keyboards, but that is not really it.