Telegram CEO accuses Apple of crushing entrepreneurs

[matesz]

I’m surprised nobody mentioned possible solution in this conflict from legislative perspective - forcing Apple and other payment processors to show cost breakdown to the user.

It should be in Apple Pay payment view overlay. Laud and clear. Very simple, it’s really not that hard to show the numbers.

I’m not saying going as far as to show to which budget money goest to from 30% tax, that will be the case in 50 years anyway, but as a consumer I’m really not interested in that information. I mean just a simple breakdown, like on receipts about tax amount payed to government on each purchase. Not just Apple of course - but all companies playing this game - stripe, PayPal, visa, Mastercard etc.

That’s because they act as a direct intermediary in such a fundamental branch of our economy, therefore society in general - money transfers.

Banks have to show the fees, why not payment processors? Again it’s obvious and simple to implement [1].

I assure you a lot of eyebrows will raise when seeing 30% on a receipt - it will force Apple to add an explanation. And a lot more people will start paying in cash again.

Now we need signatures and start lobbing governments. Maybe Europe is a better start because it seems government is more happy with adding regulations.

[1] https://nwlc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Brandys-walmart-...

[_scr00bius_]

Most payment processors do not calculate taxes on purchases, especially not online. The merchant of record does of course, and in this case apple would be both the merchant of record and processor so it's moot. But if you wanted to make this law, aiming at the processors wouldn't get you very far

[bzzzt]

Apple Pay charges approximately 0,15%, not 30%.

[bdcravens]

What then would be a fair commission? Credit card processing starts around 2-3% (though I'm sure Apple has negotiated a rate well below that, but it's not free). Hosting has value, as does marketing/discoverability (though apps like Telegram are big enough that it's diminished)

[cas8]

It’s not entirely about the %. The problem is that there’s no alternative. I have no real problem with someone like Google with the Play Store or Valve with Steam giving developers the option of shipping on their platforms for a commission like 30%, because you don’t need the Play Store to install apps nor Steam to install video games. In those cases it can actually be a decision about whether or not the hosting/visibility/platform is _worth_ the cut. But in Apple’s case there is no decision to be made. You can’t opt out. That’s why you see so much more flak thrown at Apple for this commission than you do other platform providers.

[grishka]

Zero. Apple tries really hard to pretend they own the relationship between the user and the app developer, when in reality they do nothing to deserve it. Most app developers, Telegram included, treat the app store as a nuisance, pain-in-the-butt of an obstacle they have to clear to have presence on iOS devices. It provides negative value to them. All the discovery features are irrelevant to them. They do their own marketing and could as well have done their own distribution if Apple allowed sideloading.

[s1k3]

Hosting a 200mb executable has negligible cost. They don’t advertise anything. Nor do they make things discoverable. You can pay them separately to advertise your app, and increased discoverability comes from your own marketing efforts.

They offer nothing except a walled garden.

[kybernetyk]

>Hosting has value

Roughly $10 a month.

>as does marketing/discoverability

None of which the app store provides for you.

[modeless]

A fair commission is what the market decides after users are allowed to install whatever app store they want.

[ferrocarraiges]

We don't know, but the Market would figure out if it were possible for other app-hosting platforms to compete.

Some would try to woo developers by taking less of a cut, and unprofitable ones would go out of business. Eventually, an equilibrium would be reached.

[philjohn]

Telegram are the ones hosting the posts in this case.

[somenewaccount1]

You think they deserve 30% of all content creators income because once upon a time a user downloaded the 125mb file? Seems a bit much.

[cglong]

Link to original statement: https://t.me/durov/190

[potamic]

While such complaints can gradually put pressure on regulators, businesses should just take a stand and stop supporting ios. Pull a leaf out of Apple's book and do what they did to flash. We have a wonderful platform in the web. The web is truly universal, has stood the test of time and is in many ways, better than native applications.

Given how desktop technologies are slowly converging on web, I predict it is a matter of time before mobile apps follow suit. You might as well be the one to inspire this change. So stop complaining and be the change you want to see. If you run a half decent service your users care about, they will follow you to the web. Sometimes it only takes one for everyone else to follow.

[MonkeyMalarky]

There will be no super-apps in North America because Apple will not allow it.

[KerrAvon]

Android is available in North America and Apple has no control over it whatsoever.

[wmf]

This is true but super-apps are bad. In this case Apple's monopoly is blocking another monopoly from emerging.

[bdcravens]

Apple charges a high rent, but would lowering that rent somehow make an app a "super-app"?

[DanAtC]

iOS is basically a super app these days.

[cudgy]

Does Telegram charge their users a fee to post content on their platform or take a percentage of the fees their users charge on their channels?

[fluential]

Some users were using third party payment bots to sell access to specific posts content (paywall) and Apple didn’t like not getting cut of it.

[CozyCheems]

Good thing the digital markets act will fix this, at least in the EU.

[KerrAvon]

tl;dr: whinging about Apple’s 30% commission

[philjohn]

It’s a ridiculous cut, whichever way you look at it. Modern day rent seeking.

[guywithahat]

If you read his original post it was mostly about how long it takes for apps to get reviewed by Apple, sometimes weeks. The argument was Telegram was one of the biggest apps in the app store so if they get poor treatment it must be even worse for smaller apps. The commission comment was just to say they should already have the money to handle it

[boo-ga-ga]

The issue is not the commission itself, but the absence of alternative ways to install and pay for apps.

[jflesner]

It's not that long. Though the commission is mentioned, the primary "harm" mentioned is the obscure review process.

[NayamAmarshe]

Does Durov really call himself a 'CEO'?

[bdcravens]

Is he not? Telegram is an LLC, and he is head.

[endisneigh]

Does telegram even have a web app? If they wanted they could circumvent apple entirely. They could also just remove their stuff from the App Store and focus on android without Play.

[riedel]

https://web.telegram.org

[duskwuff]

Web applications on iOS can't currently send push notifications, which are basically required for a messenger app.

[kepler1]

Funny how quickly a company that invents something that enabled people to do things never before possible, gets accused of crushing people's dreams like it's a human rights violation, all based on a percentage.