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songshu | 3 years ago

I know this isn’t quite the same as what’s happening in the article, but: what do you use when referring to a singular person of unknown gender?

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dctoedt|3 years ago

> what do you use when referring to a singular person of unknown gender?

A. Use "he or she," etc.; or

B. Rewrite the sentence.

smallerfish|3 years ago

Have you considered that you are overly sensitive to this, and that you might have been conditioned to be by the manufactured controversy currently being stoked by the right? There are exactly two uses of the word "they" as a pronoun, both in regard to Alon Levy, who presumably prefers this pronoun. It's a big world out there - learn to live with it.

Elinvynia|3 years ago

"he or she" doesn't include everyone though, and is longer and harder to say than the more inclusive variant!

0ct4via|3 years ago

Really glad your original post has been flagged, it was incredibly toxic. Becoming so irritated that you "quit reading after a couple of paragraphs" suggests you either struggle to keep up when there isn't a defined he/she pronoun, or that you take some issue with they/them pronouns specifically.

Modern readers are taught from childhood that gender isn't binary, and that singular 'they' is a perfectly acceptable way to refer to someone, and has the historical precedent to back it up.

It's confusing you as a reader, but the arbitrary claim that it confuses "the reader" is a baseless and inaccurate one. It's 2022 D.C., contemporary usage of singular 'they' isn't rare or unheard of in any way, and its frequent usage without complaint -- except from certain groups who take umbrage with non-cisgender peoples' existence, of course.

Surely a fellow as learned as yourself should be able to grasp the concept of singular they? -- it's been around for centuries... The fact that you're demanding a writer invents and starts using a new gender-neutral pronoun is ridiculous.

Firstly, singular 'they' is perfectly suited to this purpose, and has been used historically without an issue. Secondly, if you can't grasp the concept of singular they, you're clearly not going to be any less antagonistic about a newly-created alternative. Finally, your use of "Ms." seems to conflate pronouns and titles -- FYI, the gender-neutral title "Mx." has been adopted for many years, but (a) isn't used by every non-binary or gender-non-conforming person, and (b) is a title, not a pronoun -- so cannot be used interchangeably as such.

Since the author of the article uses they/them pronouns, your claimed solution of "he or she" wouldn't apply. At all.

Perhaps some reading could go some way to alleviating your irritation?

"A Brief History of Singular 'they'" https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/677177

Writeup by the Oxford English Dictionary: https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they...

If you'd like to read a bit more about its usage for both non-binary people, and to refer to people of unknown or unspecified gender -- as well as style guides -- there's always the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

It's quite telling that you complain of people "...demanding that the rest of us go along with their throwing sand in the gears of the reading process" when (a) singular they isn't new, and has been widely adopted for these purposes -- in this case to refer to the non-binary author of the piece, and (b) you're effectively demanding people create a new singular pronoun because you refuse to adapt to a usage you personally disagree with -- regardless of it being grammatically and historically correct.

There are much bigger things to worry about than getting yourself worked up over someone's choice of pronoun, and your apparent refusal to respect that.

Alon Levy (the author)'s work is rather good. It's a shame you abandoned reading their article because of your own bigoted and blinkered views about language.

the_only_law|3 years ago

GP has the typical delusion that language cannot change and that words can only have a singular meaning. Any dictionary will confirm this. There was obviously no ambiguity at they knew immediately what the intent was.

0ct4via|3 years ago

Precisely, it's a transparent attempt to hide bigotry and hate behind (false) claims of grammatical correctness, while deliberately refusing to acknowledge usage of singular 'they' -- which has existed for centuries -- because it inconveniences their hate.