I use to be able to read Reddit links on my phone browser, now they simply it a useless banner preventing me from being able to even read the thing unless I download their tracker. Now, I need to train my brain to never click on Reddit links when reading HN on phone :-(
Oh I love this! Doubling as a carrying case is a great idea. I like the flat-pack assembly with the spacers parts. What's the weight of the full assembly like?
I did something similar to this last year, but without the travel goal (just trying to get myself to move around and work outside more). Instead of mating the keyboard to the base, I attached some larger magnets to the bottom of the keyboard by setting them into a custom aluminum bottom plate (also from SendCutSend) and made a flat desk surface out of ferromagnetic steel.
One advantage of this is that I can move around the keyboard halves freely, angling them differently throughout the day. Which is also sort of a disadvantage, but they stick pretty well in place if I'm not trying to mess with them. I can also attach some other things that I slapped magnets on (mostly a mechanical pomodoro timer that I use for writing).
This is my second magnetic keyboard lap desk prototype. My first was far too heavy, so to reduce weight I just bent a piece of sheet steel around a piece of cork (the sharp bends add a lot of rigidity). I think the next one will be tented a bit... SendCutSend does bending now; I bet I could laminate steel to a thin aluminum frame...
Oh cool! I've been working on something similar. I am trying to move to a more ergo keyboard from a straight ortho and wanting to build something that fits on top of my laptop when I'm in bed, etc. So I had some "core" 6x3 boards build and glued magnets on the bottom:
I'm now waiting on my thumb cluster PCBs from china as well as my corne-style column stagger cores. I've also moved from raw header pins to JST SH 4 and 6 pin connectors to connect the raw row and column signals to a central board.
The intent is to play around with angle, position, splay, etc until I find something I like. The magnetic parts make it a lot easier (and cheaper!) to make changes.
I bought an inexpensive 12"x12" magnetic steel bulletin board from Amazon for the base.
Oooh nice! Your Kyria posts are actually where I first learned about how awesome and cheap SendCutSend is, and got some of the inspiration for the magnets.
I actually ordered a plain steel plate first, but I realized that given that I needed them in a different position to travel compactly than the wide position I like for typing, I wanted them to snap in consistent positions so it wasn't finicky to line up exactly how I liked them.
As I clicked on the link, my mind was wondering how it would compare to the last DIY keyboard I saw ... which was trishume's. I should read the username before clicking :)
Thank you for sharing your new workstation, Tristan. This one looks quite a bit less intimidating than the last one--I think I'll finally start dabbling in the DIY keyboard world.
One thing I need to figure out/work on is how to turn the output from any of the DIY designs into PS/2 signals. My desktop setup requires that.
This reminds me of a portable dual monitor setup that I tried to build. I used PVC pipe fittings and USB monitors.
The most difficult part for me was getting the screw holes lined up for VESA mount. I didn't have access to a 3D printer, so I was just cutting wood panel and drilling holes by hand.
Also PVC was too unwieldy. Making the necessary hinge joints was hard because of how much space the pipe took up.
Hmm, now I want to revisit my design. If only I had more time.
Also, I now have access to 3D printers, laser cutters, and a CNC machine at the STEM lab of my local public library. It's actually a shame how underutilized this place is. I was there during open hours, and no one was using any equipment except for the 3D printer. There is also a recording studio.
I made a wood plate VESA adapter recently. I used a paper template for the hole spaceing, and a nail to mark the holes so the drill bit didn't lose centering when starting the holes. To make the template, I taped a piece of paper over the VESA plate and rubbed the side of a pencil lightly over paper on top of the holes. Leaves nice circular marks where the holes are.
I built a Mobile workstation out of an old dslr tripod after I saw one on Amazon (0). Game changer for me.
I can use it sitting down like a traditional desk, or standing up. Occasionally I bring it all the way down and squat in front of it. Surprisingly challenging.
It packs rather slim but it’s not as fancy as the Amazon version
Does it take a long time to adjust the height between sitting and standing? Without any tripod experience I would assume it would require carefully adjusting each of the three legs whenever you want to change height. Is that true, or is there some mechanical cleverness at work?
In my opinion, ZSA have absolutely nailed it with the “Platform” for the Moonlander. It is absolutely perfect for tenting, adjustable to whatever angle you want and rock solid on the table. It can also pack down flat and still fit in the case. It’s still a pretty hefty set up though, I wouldn’t mind seeing them make some kind of mini version for out and about whilst either still keeping the same amount of keys or dropping the num row and the third button on the thumb pad which is too far to comfortably reach.
I am so happy with the set up that I am currently weighing up buying a second one despite the price and storing it away in case it all kicks off in Taiwan in the next couple of years and my Moonlander breaks. Sad that we have to consider such things now but possibly prudent.
What's the static electricity story here? I personally avoid any and all metal fixtures around my work desk, because I invariably end up being painfully shocked by them every time I shift on the chair[0]. At this point I habituated having small metal objects around me (e.g. key bundles), that I can use to discharge static before/during getting up, sitting down, etc.
Where 'ianthehenry mentioned here[1] they've made a desk surface out of steel, I pretty much fainted reading it.
(Worst related working experience in my life was, a few jobs back, customers' brand new headquarters built in the "modern" style of carpets + glass + aluminum. There, every single surface would shock me when I touched it with my bare hands - even glass window panes were out to get me.)
----
[0] - Any of the several chairs I tried. So it's not just about the chair, I think.
I live in Missouri, where winter humidity is super low and everything is shocky.
I actually liked having a steel top desk - I learned (conditioned myself) to put my hand on top of the desk while standing up, so the charge would let itself out of my hand gingerly rather than building up and blowing up my phone when I reached to pick it up. So I put a piece of aluminum tape and wired it to a grounded case (like my PC or directly to an outlet ground) and learned to put a finger on it every time I stood up.
In some places I've had to use remote KVM extenders, which are HIGHLY susceptible to ESD pulses from office chairs. A few times every hour the screen blacks out for a second, usually returning to normal, just because someone stood up. D.C. Smith wrote a few papers [0][1] on it that bolstered the ESD-safe industry.
If I don't discharge myself to radiator, I'll discharge to macbook. It didn't cause damage yet, but I feel uneasy when that happens. So I prefer discharging myself often, especially at winter when air is dry.
If that's a big problem for you, it's possible to wear some resistor as a gadget and discharge via this resistor to some grounded thing. It'll limit electricity flow and you won't feel anything.
I immediately recognised the stand as the Roost [0] because I have one, but OP links to Amazon with a different name. Was Roost ripped off or do they simply white label this?
I have both. As far as I understand, the Roost is the original, and the Nexstand is recommended by Wirecutter because it is cheaper.
I put them side by side, and shake the table to see which one is more sturdy. The original wins by far. It is also lighter, smaller, and better designed in general, IIRC closing the lid is safer on the Roost. (The Roost I have is V3.)
I am not 100% certain Nexstand is a copycat of Roost though.
Pretty sure the NextStand is a whitelabel product inspired by Roost. You can also buy them from TaoBao for a couple of dollars or AliExpress for around US$15 in the 11.11 sale [0]. Disclaimer: I haven't bought this particular listing, but am happy with my TaoBao one.
You can find bespoke assembly services with a lot of the vendors, it will usually run around 100$ extra so 300/400 for the keyboard which altogether isn't that bad compared to prebuilt ergos like the Ergodox.
These tend to be location specific but try to find regional resellers of the PCBs.
I bought mine on eBay, but I also have used https://boardsource.xyz for parts. They have assembled versions of both Lulu and Lily58 pro for sale, which are very similar to the sofle as well as some 40% options if you want even more minimalism. There's also the mainlander: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/, but it's a heftier size and price tag.
Omg thank you. Having some massive pain in my shoulder (when externally rotating my arm), and I think it’s due to moving my arm out to get the trackpad/mouse.
I’m going to try this keyboard setup deal with the track pad in the center.
I think the best thing you can do is resistance training exercise. Also going from a wide keyboard (full size Apple keyboard with number pad) to a narrow keyboard (narrow Apple Keyboard no number pad) worked for me. For a while I was doing the exercise in the video below and it helped me but I think just regular weight training can do wonders. I mostly just do shoulder, back, arms, and chest exercises and still haven’t had the pain I used to have. Hope you find something that works for you!
It is not necessarily better, since it probably requires you to bend your wrist. So you solve shoulder pain and get wrist pain in exchange. Also, you probably want to tent a keyboard to avoid forearm pronation [1] and then your trackpad hides between the keyboard halves unless you raise it.
(I am not sure there is a good solution outside avoiding the mouse by using a mouse layer or something like Shortcat on the Mac.)
I was having similar issues a couple of years back. I'm now using 2 trackballs - Expert Mouse and Vertical trackball to distribute the movement. The pain hasn't come back and I enjoy having dual mice with some extra buttons.
I tried using the expert mouse between my ergodox splits, but the movement was even more awkward as I had to bring my elbow closer to my abdomen. YMMV.
Over the years, adding variety/variability has helped me more than many specific solutions. Seems obvious in hindsight given the R in RSI :D
I had this problem and solved it by using trackpoint keyboards [0], sadly they're pretty pricey on eBay now though. There are newer models that are slightly worse keyboards, but are wireless.
I also haven't had trouble using a trackpad, centered relative to whatever monitor/screen I'm using.
I wonder if I'll have to also go custom for my next laptop if I want something with a
15" screen, no numberpad, touchpad with 3 physical buttons, boots to Linux, fully self serviceable or almost so.
I have hopes for Framework but they are still missing at least two of those points. My current laptop is missing the no numberpad point. I had to compromise and that was the least painful one.
My travel workstation consists of a SFF 13L PC, a Meta Quest 2 VR Headset, and the paired Logitech K830 keyboard. No battery but it all fits into a carryon roller at 8Kgs with cables and it's a true workstation as in high end GPU/CPU/RAM with multiple monitors. I call it an All-in-One-Office-on-Wheels-in-a-Box !
How does reading text (I presume) work for you using a VR headset? That was my main gripe with VR, I think that was the original Oculus Quest, in that I couldn't read text very well. I need glasses as well, only a minor thing, but enough to give me eyestrain / headaches when trying to read text.
Using one effectively categorizes you as an enthusiast.
The tricky thing about these kind of ergonomic ortholinear designs is that no one mass produces a cheap rubber dome version, so getting one is a somewhat serious financial investment, on top of it being a serious time/effort investment to get used to typing on one.
Traditional keyboards are what everyone already has kicking around; so that's what people get used to typing on.
They might make compass crazy in your smartphone. Also they cause funny pictures on tube displays. Other than that - I don't think it will have any influence.
And underrated, imho. I’m always delighted when I get something that uses magnets in a unique way: keeping a lid closed, providing alignment when attaching things, as a method of mounting unrelated things to each other, and even just to fidget with. Magnets are awesome.
seltzered_|3 years ago
reacharavindh|3 years ago
guidoism|3 years ago
ianthehenry|3 years ago
I did something similar to this last year, but without the travel goal (just trying to get myself to move around and work outside more). Instead of mating the keyboard to the base, I attached some larger magnets to the bottom of the keyboard by setting them into a custom aluminum bottom plate (also from SendCutSend) and made a flat desk surface out of ferromagnetic steel.
https://ianthehenry.com/posts/kyria-build/bespoker-aluminum-...
One advantage of this is that I can move around the keyboard halves freely, angling them differently throughout the day. Which is also sort of a disadvantage, but they stick pretty well in place if I'm not trying to mess with them. I can also attach some other things that I slapped magnets on (mostly a mechanical pomodoro timer that I use for writing).
https://i.imgur.com/S0bstNs.png
I experimented with some alternate keyboard mounting strategies, but didn't find anything that made a big difference.
https://i.imgur.com/ohNWhhS.png
This is my second magnetic keyboard lap desk prototype. My first was far too heavy, so to reduce weight I just bent a piece of sheet steel around a piece of cork (the sharp bends add a lot of rigidity). I think the next one will be tented a bit... SendCutSend does bending now; I bet I could laminate steel to a thin aluminum frame...
guidoism|3 years ago
https://imgur.com/a/FNn32o4
I'm now waiting on my thumb cluster PCBs from china as well as my corne-style column stagger cores. I've also moved from raw header pins to JST SH 4 and 6 pin connectors to connect the raw row and column signals to a central board.
The intent is to play around with angle, position, splay, etc until I find something I like. The magnetic parts make it a lot easier (and cheaper!) to make changes.
I bought an inexpensive 12"x12" magnetic steel bulletin board from Amazon for the base.
trishume|3 years ago
I actually ordered a plain steel plate first, but I realized that given that I needed them in a different position to travel compactly than the wide position I like for typing, I wanted them to snap in consistent positions so it wasn't finicky to line up exactly how I liked them.
guidoism|3 years ago
guidoism|3 years ago
ahmedalsudani|3 years ago
Thank you for sharing your new workstation, Tristan. This one looks quite a bit less intimidating than the last one--I think I'll finally start dabbling in the DIY keyboard world.
One thing I need to figure out/work on is how to turn the output from any of the DIY designs into PS/2 signals. My desktop setup requires that.
Currently using the PS/2 version of https://www.ergodirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=450, which has been discontinued for a while. If this keyboard dies, DIY might be the only option for an ergonomic PS/2 keyboard.
alanbernstein|3 years ago
waltbosz|3 years ago
The most difficult part for me was getting the screw holes lined up for VESA mount. I didn't have access to a 3D printer, so I was just cutting wood panel and drilling holes by hand.
Also PVC was too unwieldy. Making the necessary hinge joints was hard because of how much space the pipe took up.
Hmm, now I want to revisit my design. If only I had more time.
Also, I now have access to 3D printers, laser cutters, and a CNC machine at the STEM lab of my local public library. It's actually a shame how underutilized this place is. I was there during open hours, and no one was using any equipment except for the 3D printer. There is also a recording studio.
Doxon|3 years ago
tsomctl|3 years ago
Use a blind hole transfer punch. You can make your own with the right sized bolt and a grinder.
https://www.amazon.com/TTC-Blind-Hole-Spotter-Diameter/dp/B0...
tra3|3 years ago
I can use it sitting down like a traditional desk, or standing up. Occasionally I bring it all the way down and squat in front of it. Surprisingly challenging.
It packs rather slim but it’s not as fancy as the Amazon version
0 https://www.amazon.com/TRIPODSY-Portable-Standing-Adjustable...
ianthehenry|3 years ago
rcarr|3 years ago
I am so happy with the set up that I am currently weighing up buying a second one despite the price and storing it away in case it all kicks off in Taiwan in the next couple of years and my Moonlander breaks. Sad that we have to consider such things now but possibly prudent.
For anyone interested: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/platform/
TeMPOraL|3 years ago
Where 'ianthehenry mentioned here[1] they've made a desk surface out of steel, I pretty much fainted reading it.
(Worst related working experience in my life was, a few jobs back, customers' brand new headquarters built in the "modern" style of carpets + glass + aluminum. There, every single surface would shock me when I touched it with my bare hands - even glass window panes were out to get me.)
----
[0] - Any of the several chairs I tried. So it's not just about the chair, I think.
[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33528148
kawfey|3 years ago
I actually liked having a steel top desk - I learned (conditioned myself) to put my hand on top of the desk while standing up, so the charge would let itself out of my hand gingerly rather than building up and blowing up my phone when I reached to pick it up. So I put a piece of aluminum tape and wired it to a grounded case (like my PC or directly to an outlet ground) and learned to put a finger on it every time I stood up.
I also use a lot of heavy duty staticide on fabrics. https://www.aclstaticide.com/products/heavy-duty-staticide
In some places I've had to use remote KVM extenders, which are HIGHLY susceptible to ESD pulses from office chairs. A few times every hour the screen blacks out for a second, usually returning to normal, just because someone stood up. D.C. Smith wrote a few papers [0][1] on it that bolstered the ESD-safe industry.
[0] http://emcesd.com/pdf/eos93.pdf
[1] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/819080
vbezhenar|3 years ago
If that's a big problem for you, it's possible to wear some resistor as a gadget and discharge via this resistor to some grounded thing. It'll limit electricity flow and you won't feel anything.
tuyiown|3 years ago
- shoes sole
- floor material (especially carpet)
- relative humidity
Combinations of all three explain all discharges I've endured :)
tomcam|3 years ago
alias_neo|3 years ago
[0] https://www.therooststand.com/
KolenCh|3 years ago
I put them side by side, and shake the table to see which one is more sturdy. The original wins by far. It is also lighter, smaller, and better designed in general, IIRC closing the lid is safer on the Roost. (The Roost I have is V3.)
I am not 100% certain Nexstand is a copycat of Roost though.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-laptop-stand...
robjan|3 years ago
[0]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001234630469.html
swah|3 years ago
rkwasny|3 years ago
harryvederci|3 years ago
https://willfennel.com/posts/2022/10/26/cheap-ergonomic-keyb...
70rd|3 years ago
These tend to be location specific but try to find regional resellers of the PCBs.
Also worth checking out r/mechmarket, i.e. https://redd.it/wvf9dz
memco|3 years ago
sogen|3 years ago
mgarfias|3 years ago
I’m going to try this keyboard setup deal with the track pad in the center.
gboss|3 years ago
https://youtu.be/IdDqdrGMFBw
microtonal|3 years ago
(I am not sure there is a good solution outside avoiding the mouse by using a mouse layer or something like Shortcat on the Mac.)
[1] See e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK72285/
nvln|3 years ago
I tried using the expert mouse between my ergodox splits, but the movement was even more awkward as I had to bring my elbow closer to my abdomen. YMMV.
Over the years, adding variety/variability has helped me more than many specific solutions. Seems obvious in hindsight given the R in RSI :D
camgunz|3 years ago
I also haven't had trouble using a trackpad, centered relative to whatever monitor/screen I'm using.
Good luck!
[0]: https://sharktastica.co.uk/wiki?id=lenovo8855
comfypotato|3 years ago
pmontra|3 years ago
I have hopes for Framework but they are still missing at least two of those points. My current laptop is missing the no numberpad point. I had to compromise and that was the least painful one.
GoOnThenDoTell|3 years ago
jimmySixDOF|3 years ago
Cthulhu_|3 years ago
brodouevencode|3 years ago
thomastjeffery|3 years ago
The tricky thing about these kind of ergonomic ortholinear designs is that no one mass produces a cheap rubber dome version, so getting one is a somewhat serious financial investment, on top of it being a serious time/effort investment to get used to typing on one.
Traditional keyboards are what everyone already has kicking around; so that's what people get used to typing on.
MrsPeaches|3 years ago
taubek|3 years ago
vbezhenar|3 years ago
wizardforhire|3 years ago
hi_its_trevor|3 years ago
jonhohle|3 years ago
metadat|3 years ago
https://thume.ca/assets/postassets/travelwork/case-open.jpeg
Didn't Eminem sing a song about the affliction of hairy palms?