[clement_b]

I think TikTok and similar products are garbage and will lower the average IQ, especially of younger generations. I am deeply concerned when I see kids hooked on that crack, because they are burning their potential. It's scary, and if I had one far fetched easy theory to make, I'd say TikTok is a way for China to mitigate the threat coming from the west's upcoming generations, by ensuring their collective capabilities are as limited as possible. That theory doesn't stand though, as TikTok (Douyin) also operates in China. No kid is spared.

But, two things:

- What they collect is literally nothing special. Worse things happen, and have happened in mobile apps/mobile SDKs. (remember Onavo, acquired by Facebook? Way worse). What do we think Google and Apple know about our devices (Check Apple terms, it's good fun [0])? Isn't this again about the recurring fear/shock that a Chinese company should not hold data about western citizens?

- the article isn't about how much TikTok can know by being in our phones, despite what most comments here imply. Instead, it's about how deeply TikTok taps in users minds by leveraging the unhealthy and addictive relationship we have with phones, acting as "prosthetic extension of our [my] corporeal being".

> What matters is that we rely on these external tools in the way we rely on our brain; if those objects are similarly accessible, endorsed, and integrated into cognition, we should simply consider them part of the mind.

[0] https://twitter.com/mysk_co/status/1589239911219331072

[MikePlacid]

> TikTok (Douyin) also operates in China. No kid is spared.

Can’t vouch for the following observation, since I’ve never used either one, but:

"In their version of TikTok, if you're under 14 years old, they show you science experiments you can do at home, museum exhibits, patriotism videos and educational videos," said Tristan Harris, co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology.

"And they also limit it to only 40 minutes per day. Now they don't ship that version of TikTok to the rest of the world. So it's almost like they recognize that technology's influencing kids' development, and they make their domestic version a spinach version of TikTok, while they ship the opium version to the rest of the world,"

https://thepostmillennial.com/tiktoks-chinese-platform-enric...

[wikfwikf]

So 1. The Chinese govt makes laws restricting these apps for young children which are only valid in China, 2. Tiktok obeys local laws in China and local laws in the US, 3. the US and other Western govts don't force social media companies to make the apps safer for children, and you are blaming the Chinese govt for making American kids stupid and addicted?

How does the behavior of Instagram, Pinterest and others fit into this theory?

[asutekku]

Any kind of amusing content for kids is time restricted in china. If a western game company wants to get into the market, they need to implement time limits & age checks.

[bakuninsbart]

When have we ever expected companies to do the right thing? Governments are needed to come up with regulations for that, but restricting which content or how much someone can consume, even kids, would be touted as deeply authoritarian in our societies. So the otus is then on parents...

[jryhjythtr]

For all their other sins, at least China seems aware of the dangers of unfettered access to all that "tech" has to offer. I've long been of the opinion that it's insane for a country to allow any agent (in the broadest sense of the word) anywhere in the world, direct and unlimited access to their citizens' life, thoughts, and desires through the internet.

[m348e912]

I'd love to have someone verify this. If you type Douyin into YouTube you see the platform contains the same nonsense videos that TikTok has. So we know the content is similar. The question is the experience really different for users under 14. And if so, how is this enforced? If it's a matter of stating your birth date when you sign up then I don't think the restriction means much.

[novalis78]

Who would have thought that WW3 is fought via social media apps.

[hdra]

Are they doing that voluntarily? Or is that something that is forced on them by the government?

[afpx]

opium wars?

[dagenix]

> I think TikTok and similar products are garbage and will lower the average IQ, especially of younger generations.

I have lots of concerns about TikTok and refuse to use it myself. But this is ridiculous - and that upsets me quite a bit because is delegitimizes the actual problems with TikTok. TikTok will not lower anyone's IQ. This is straight up just old man yelling at cloud. And that does us all a disservice.

[Plyphon_]

Agreed.

They said that about radio. They said that about TV. They said that about computers. They said that about dumbphones. They said that about smartphones. They're now saying that about apps.

[slashtab]

I don't know about IQ but it does reduces people's attention span and that's the reason to limit the video length to few seconds.

[was_a_dev]

Previous generations spouted the same strawman about TV, and in general, all previous forms of media

[RHSman2]

I interviewed for a data science product manager role (I am one) at a games company. They were doing very interesting things with generative models however the person running it’s speciality was a Phd in addiction (and plenty of work in the field)

Was so interesting from an intellectual stand point but so very very evil.

[xphx]

A 2016 talk by Tribeflame CEO Torulf Jernström about the monetization of mobile games called "Let's Go Whaling!" also caused a bit of a ruffle a while ago.

Ominously delivered with smug smirk, met by smug laughter: "I'll leave the morality of it out of the talk. We can discuss it, if we have time, later."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4

Turns out they would have had time later but for some reason opted not to.

[machinekob]

Sounds like EA but I'm not sure if you can even speak about that right now :D

[cinntaile]

What was the company name?

[t20]

I made an account to reply to this. I don't think this is a China/TikTok issue but more an issue of how the west is treating its people.

Sure, social media/TikTok shows impressionable people that you can earn a (good) living by making content (as does YouTube, Twitch, and OnlyFans). Still, western civilizations aren't offering an attractive alternative.

Look at all the layoffs in tech and all the outsourcing that has happened with companies that earn record profits.

If I were a young kid growing up now, seeing my parents getting laid off for no reason and switching jobs every few years/months, I'd think this might not be how I want to live my life.

As a result, young people grow up chasing careers in content rather than science, infrastructure, tech, or health care because they now know that going down that path opens them up to massive vulnerabilities and possibly a low quality of life. After a couple of generations, there might not be enough people working in those necessary fields, which can hurt.

[petesergeant]

> What they collect is literally nothing special

I added my local pharmacist on WhatsApp once when I was waiting for an order to come in. Instagram is very keen for me to be his friend and frequently suggests him. He hasn’t posted anything, but I did look at who he follows, and it’s a collection of glamour models in skimpy clothing, which given the amount of Jesus paraphernalia in his store I’m not sure is something he particularly wants me to know.

TikTok, which attempts to divine your interests by noticing how long you spend looking at certain videos, probably knows the sexuality of its users, and niche interests that may not be public knowledge — there is for sure a family-first politician somewhere who spends a little bit longer than they’d like you to know looking at young-looking topless guys.

This information strikes me as “special”

[MikePlacid]

> probably knows the sexuality of its users

Nope, they think I prefer brunettes, while actually I’m an equal opportunity uhm.. watcher.

[gherkinnn]

And I burned my potential hooked on Club Penguin and rottendotcom. Why else would I continue to argue with people online?

[huijzer]

> I think TikTok and similar products are garbage and will lower the average IQ, especially of younger generations. I am deeply concerned when I see kids hooked on that crack, because they are burning their potential

People in 1991 were complaining about the same with regards to newspapers (https://www.firstthings.com/article/1991/10/why-the-news-mak...) and you can probably find the same sentiment around the time that the first magazines were published around the 1740s (https://www.encyclopedia.com/arts/encyclopedias-almanacs-tra...).

[mrweasel]

> What they collect is literally nothing special.

For the most part I agree, but it depends on the owner of the phone. Danish politicians have increasingly been using TikTok. It doesn't take a Chinese genius to correlate the location of two or more MPs during the current talks, regarding how to form the next government, to gain insights into how that could possibly pan out. They've basically stuffed a tracking device into the pockets of the most important politicians in the country and are now able to know when they meet.

[sofixa]

Isn't this one of the reasons why phone permissions (at least on Android) have the option to share location data with an app only when it's in use?

[clement_b]

Yes, true. I didn't think about that, but again, this isn't something new, relying on a more agressive than average tracking tech. West is just concerned about how it may be used.

Strava was similarly dangerous at times [0]. The difference is that the west has a strong grasp on western companies and what they do with the data, but what prevents the US to use the location data from, say, key Twitter users in other countries? From my understanding, it's legally possible for the govt to access that data. No one (really) budges.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42853072.amp

[vagrantJin]

> I'd say TikTok is a way for China to mitigate the threat coming from the west's upcoming generations, by ensuring their collective capabilities are as limited as possible.

I wonder how much the flavour of commentary would change if you swapped "China" with "Israel"...here comes the deep water.