I don't think anyone is arguing that "guys" would be accepted usage to refer to a group that's entirely female gendered, only that it's acceptable for addressing mixed company. A bisexual person may well think that way about their sexual history in toto -- or they may find distinguishing genders is useful in this context.
> I don't think anyone is arguing that "guys" would be accepted usage to refer to a group that's entirely female gendered, only that it's acceptable for addressing mixed company.
This really depends where you are in the world.
It's true that my female friends don't use "guys" to refer to friend groups that are entirely female. The word they do use is "lads". Which, to UK people would sound even weirder than claiming "guys" is gender neutral, yet it often is here.
willhinsa is arguing exactly that in a sibling comment.
It's a peculiar thing. I've seen guys get offended at the assertion that "guys" is gendered, and then enraged at the suggestion that they may have slept with "guys."
Someone who is upset enough about being being called out for using gendered language that they post a complaint about the interaction, on hacker news, I would bet real money that the OP is a straight male.
I would also bet that the straight male would say "no" to the question "do you fuck guys?"
It's almost like TFA is about this very distinction. Whether or not you agree that "guys" should be used as such, it is in fact used as such in common english.
"how many guys have you had sex with?" implies maleness, though it would also depend quite a lot on context.
"what's up, guys?" is used in a gender-neutral way, therefore it is gender-neutral. That's an entirely descriptive, not prescriptive, observation.
Language, especially slang-y words, are more learned than taught, and neutral-guy is no exception. We humans use "guy(s)" as male in some context and neutral/unspecified in other contexts. No one told us to do so.
Whether we should consciously stop doing so is a judgement call. When someone actively makes that correction in conversation, that rubs some guys (including my bio-female partner) the wrong way.
Now, I think it's noble to attempt to use gender-biased language (such as neutral-guy), and eventually it will hopefully fade from usage, but it's still obnoxious to make the correction by interrupting conversation.
tomjakubowski|3 years ago
I don't think anyone is arguing that "guys" would be accepted usage to refer to a group that's entirely female gendered, only that it's acceptable for addressing mixed company. A bisexual person may well think that way about their sexual history in toto -- or they may find distinguishing genders is useful in this context.
jcims|3 years ago
Macha|3 years ago
This really depends where you are in the world.
It's true that my female friends don't use "guys" to refer to friend groups that are entirely female. The word they do use is "lads". Which, to UK people would sound even weirder than claiming "guys" is gender neutral, yet it often is here.
klyrs|3 years ago
It's a peculiar thing. I've seen guys get offended at the assertion that "guys" is gendered, and then enraged at the suggestion that they may have slept with "guys."
MartinCron|3 years ago
I would also bet that the straight male would say "no" to the question "do you fuck guys?"
kortex|3 years ago
"how many guys have you had sex with?" implies maleness, though it would also depend quite a lot on context.
"what's up, guys?" is used in a gender-neutral way, therefore it is gender-neutral. That's an entirely descriptive, not prescriptive, observation.
Language, especially slang-y words, are more learned than taught, and neutral-guy is no exception. We humans use "guy(s)" as male in some context and neutral/unspecified in other contexts. No one told us to do so.
Whether we should consciously stop doing so is a judgement call. When someone actively makes that correction in conversation, that rubs some guys (including my bio-female partner) the wrong way.
Now, I think it's noble to attempt to use gender-biased language (such as neutral-guy), and eventually it will hopefully fade from usage, but it's still obnoxious to make the correction by interrupting conversation.
klyrs|3 years ago
~ Humpty Dumpty
j-bos|3 years ago
bumsocks|3 years ago
[deleted]