Interestingly, the SS Arthur M. Anderson which was 10mi behind the Fitz when it went down, is still in use 70 years since launch and currently in Lake Huron.
Lakers seem to have unusually long lives for ships because of the unique nature of the cargo carried, and the lack of salt water. As far as I can tell, many are retired because metal fatigue reasons, or an ship that cannot be upgraded to diesel propulsion.
The huge waves that brought down Edmund Fitzgerald are thought to be caused by the mythical Gales of November phenomenon on Lake Superior (https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/11/10/lake-superiors-gale...), which is due to cold Arctic air from north colliding with very warm air from the Gulf of Mexico (we had 70s in Chicago this week!).
From the MPRNews article:
"John Swenson, a professor in the department of earth and environmental sciences at the University of Minnesota Duluth who grew up on Lake Superior, has looked at records of the biggest storms over the past 30 years.
'I find that the average storm, so in terms of time of the year, actually falls on about Nov. 10. So long story short, we get a storm like this, you know, on average on Nov. 10.' "
The wikipedia page isn't quite clear on the matter:
> Professor Mason and Lieutenant Bartlett asserted that a principal cause of the collision was the lack of a $15 lantern on the Augusta
> The judgement was based on a law that not only gave sail the right of way over steam, but did not require sailing vessels to carry running lights.
It didn't matter that the Augusta was a sailing ship, it still had the right of way over the Lady Elgin, and it was the duty of the Lady Elgin to alter course to avoid the collision. But because the Augusta was a sailing ship it didn't need adequate lighting, so the Lady Elgin didn't see it until it was too late.
By the way, the law [1] right now still gives sailing vessels right of way over motor vessels. The location of the wreck, just offshore from Chicago, 700+ miles from the nearest ocean, is subject to the international treaty governing the avoidance of collisions at sea.
> Many of these ships were never found, so the exact number of shipwrecks in the Lakes is unknown; the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum approximates 6,000 ships and 30,000 lives lost, while historian and mariner Mark Thompson has estimated that the total number of wrecks is likely more than 25,000.
If you haven't visited the Great Lakes, it can be hard to fathom how vast they are. They are really more like inland seas than lakes. At its deepest point, Lake Superior is about 1300ft deep, and edge-to-edge it measures about 350 miles across. If Lake Superior were drained, it could cover the entirety of North and South America with a foot of freshwater.
The northwestern coast of Michigan and the Upper Peninsula that bounds Lake Superior is absolutely worth a trip if you haven't been there.
If you’re able to time a visit to the locks in Sault Ste., MI for the last Friday in June you can take a tour that allows you to walk out onto the locks and get up close with the freighters. There are usually some other special tours around town for this “Engineer’s Day” event.
Our visit one year happened to fall on that day and it was an unexpected treat.
The most wild thing about the great lakes for me, is that there's enormous islands in the middle which you can visit.
Beaver Island has an entire year-round community. Farms, wineries, a small airport. It was featured on some survival show I caught late at night once.
The Manitou islands used to be inhabited. They have found arrowheads on the island 7000 years old. They went through a logging colony, to a farming colony, to them mostly just a collection of summer cottages, before the state finally bought them and made them a wild camping nature preserve. 5 miles offshore, and within sight of other massive islands which have their own wild histories.
Lastly - South Manitou island has a shipwreck from the 60's along its shore you can still explore and dive.
Mackinac island is another year-round community. No cars are allowed, and the historical forts from the 1800's have been all preserved. It's the only place I've visited which has a real, "Pirates of the Caribbean" feel to it.
Put-in-Bay, where fishermen go to party. There's a lot of these places!
The most fascinating aspect of the incident to me is that the Edmund Fitzgerald was 728' long and sank in 535 feet of water. One video I saw analyzing the sinking showed that it was possible the ship's bow was forced down hit the bottom with 200' or so still above the surface.
IANANE (not a Naval Engineer), but that scenario sounds wildly implausible. It's easy to "do" it with a scale model toy, or simplistic geometry - but out in real life, at the size of a lake freighter, the square-cube law is absolutely merciless. Below (very optimistic guess) ~120' depth, the ship's hull can no longer hold air, to provide buoyancy. Recall that the water pressure a few hundred feet down is enough to crush a WWI submarine like an empty beer can in your fist. And lake freighters hulls are not built to anything remotely resembling WWI military submarine standards.
Can you imagine the horror of being on the bridge, thinking that the bow has just submerged into a wave, and only realizing it’s not going to come back up when you feel the ship slam into the lake floor?
I strongly believe that iron ore liquefaction ultimately proved the ship's demise. More about how this can happen here[1]. The facts all line up:
- Tons of water likely getting into the cargo hold, wetting it down, especially if the
crew didn't take care of shutting the cargo hold top.
- Lots of rocking back and forth
- They were carrying tons of iron ore
- That stuff can absorb a ton of water, then when rocked, let it all loose at once,
thus causing a top-heavy rocking motion that will capsize a vessel within minutes.
You may be right about the liquefaction, but there is zero chance the crew forgot to shut the cargo holds properly. They knew they were heading into a storm and everyone on that ship understood their lives depended on securing all the hatches.
Huge waves (running down the ship's length) obviously put extreme stresses on the hull of a long, thin, heavily-loaded ship. And the Fitzgerald's wreck is broken into two pieces, right in the middle.
I'm a child of the 70s. I grew up with this song being everywhere for a long time, but I never really paid attention, and I lived far from the Great Lakes, so it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized it was about a contemporary disaster and not some long-ago age-of-sail thing.
The song was released in 1976, and details a sinking from only a year before.
I was introduced to this song by a music teacher in elementary school, and I remember being wow'd by the story and thinking the song sounded cool as hell. I've almost never listened to it since then, but it has remained ingrained in my head for almost 30 years. Every couple of weeks it pops into my head, clear as a bell.
One of my favorite songs. So many haunting lyrics. I've always been fascinated by "Superior, they said, never gives up her dead..." I've read it is in reference to the fact that because the lake is so cold, sunken bodies will not decompose and resurface. Of course, it could just be folklore.
Obligatory link to the Paul Gross song, 32 Down on the Robert Mackenzie, which was composed after the show (Due South) was planning to do a story (featuring the song) about the Edmund Fitzgerald, but was convinced by the families of the deceased that it was better to craft something fictional: https://youtu.be/_d-t0959C3A
sutoor|3 years ago
https://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/details/ships/mmsi:3669720...
Aloha|3 years ago
bombcar|3 years ago
1. The person the ship was named after died 27 years after the ship named after him did (he hadn't wanted the naming, the board overruled him).
2. The wreck is in Canada.
3. Gordon changed the lyrics of his live performances to take in new information not available at the time of writing.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
Jun8|3 years ago
The huge waves that brought down Edmund Fitzgerald are thought to be caused by the mythical Gales of November phenomenon on Lake Superior (https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/11/10/lake-superiors-gale...), which is due to cold Arctic air from north colliding with very warm air from the Gulf of Mexico (we had 70s in Chicago this week!).
From the MPRNews article:
"John Swenson, a professor in the department of earth and environmental sciences at the University of Minnesota Duluth who grew up on Lake Superior, has looked at records of the biggest storms over the past 30 years.
'I find that the average storm, so in terms of time of the year, actually falls on about Nov. 10. So long story short, we get a storm like this, you know, on average on Nov. 10.' "
Kon-Peki|3 years ago
The wikipedia page isn't quite clear on the matter:
> Professor Mason and Lieutenant Bartlett asserted that a principal cause of the collision was the lack of a $15 lantern on the Augusta
> The judgement was based on a law that not only gave sail the right of way over steam, but did not require sailing vessels to carry running lights.
It didn't matter that the Augusta was a sailing ship, it still had the right of way over the Lady Elgin, and it was the duty of the Lady Elgin to alter course to avoid the collision. But because the Augusta was a sailing ship it didn't need adequate lighting, so the Lady Elgin didn't see it until it was too late.
By the way, the law [1] right now still gives sailing vessels right of way over motor vessels. The location of the wreck, just offshore from Chicago, 700+ miles from the nearest ocean, is subject to the international treaty governing the avoidance of collisions at sea.
[1] https://www.imo.org/en/About/Conventions/Pages/COLREG.aspx
bombcar|3 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_the_Grea...
FourHand451|3 years ago
pseudolus|3 years ago
https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/11/wreck-of-the-edmund-fitzg...
jihadjihad|3 years ago
The northwestern coast of Michigan and the Upper Peninsula that bounds Lake Superior is absolutely worth a trip if you haven't been there.
EvanAnderson|3 years ago
Our visit one year happened to fall on that day and it was an unexpected treat.
RajT88|3 years ago
Beaver Island has an entire year-round community. Farms, wineries, a small airport. It was featured on some survival show I caught late at night once.
The Manitou islands used to be inhabited. They have found arrowheads on the island 7000 years old. They went through a logging colony, to a farming colony, to them mostly just a collection of summer cottages, before the state finally bought them and made them a wild camping nature preserve. 5 miles offshore, and within sight of other massive islands which have their own wild histories.
Lastly - South Manitou island has a shipwreck from the 60's along its shore you can still explore and dive.
Mackinac island is another year-round community. No cars are allowed, and the historical forts from the 1800's have been all preserved. It's the only place I've visited which has a real, "Pirates of the Caribbean" feel to it.
Put-in-Bay, where fishermen go to party. There's a lot of these places!
cratermoon|3 years ago
bell-cot|3 years ago
swearwolf|3 years ago
michaelcampbell|3 years ago
ubermonkey|3 years ago
djha-skin|3 years ago
dev_tty01|3 years ago
nradov|3 years ago
https://gcaptain.com/cargo-liquefaction-continues-to-pose-de...
bell-cot|3 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Fitzgerald#Maintenance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Fitzgerald#Structural_f...
Huge waves (running down the ship's length) obviously put extreme stresses on the hull of a long, thin, heavily-loaded ship. And the Fitzgerald's wreck is broken into two pieces, right in the middle.
ubermonkey|3 years ago
The song was released in 1976, and details a sinking from only a year before.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
DrScump|3 years ago
bayareabadboy|3 years ago
AlexandrB|3 years ago
jjulius|3 years ago
Not sure why I'm sharing this, but yeah...
wisemang|3 years ago
ourmandave|3 years ago
pgm8705|3 years ago
LanternLight83|3 years ago
https://youtu.be/DhTRNU1mnVA
incanus77|3 years ago
PopAlongKid|3 years ago
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blow_the_Man_Down
cbsmith|3 years ago
velcrovan|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
washywashy|3 years ago