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Stanford Law School will not participate in US News law school ranking

31 points| hhs | 3 years ago |law.stanford.edu | reply

35 comments

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[+] crhulls|3 years ago|reply
I was at first quite happy when I heard top schools were pulling out of rankings - we go way too far with what are often vanity metrics that miss the big picture.

But, I was told (unconfirmed) that this is cover to make it easier to pursue backdoor affirmative action as allowing diversity candidates in with lower LSAT scores was hurting their standings in the rankings, and this is a cynical tactic to get around that.

Is this a case where we are ending one wrong and replacing it with another?

[+] onetimeusename|3 years ago|reply
Assuming that is true, why would affirmative action be viewed as so important that schools abandon participation in the premier ranking system in order to pursue it through a backdoor? I am genuinely curious why affirmative action is considered so sacred that elite schools suddenly reject the ranking system they have spent decades trying to climb. Rankings are really a pretty critical part of US education.

Without rankings you don't attract the prestige seeking students willing to pay. In turn you don't earn the money you need to pay your professors and administrators. You probably don't attract the star professors you wanted with higher salaries. These things are all linked.

Maybe their solution is to have a giant endowment or maybe they just establish a different ranking system that suits them better. But I still think it seems like a surprising outcome if affirmative action is more important than rankings.

[+] nonethewiser|3 years ago|reply
I'm not sure how US News is wrong. They have a methodology. People can put whatever stock they want into it. Sounds like something is working if schools can't lower their test scores and avoid falling in the ranks
[+] testfoobar|3 years ago|reply
I've observed this same tactic discussed at the High School level: some are proposing removing all AP classes because not enough diversity students take those classes. The classes and tests are deemed racist.

Would the same logic apply to FAA pilot testing?

[+] codefreeordie|3 years ago|reply
This decision occurs at the same time as they stop requiring LSAT because it "hurts diversity", so ... yes, it's an attempt to mask the institutional decline caused by using diversity score instead of merit for admissions.
[+] nonethewiser|3 years ago|reply
> it also treats students pursuing another advanced degree, such as an MBA or PhD, as unemployed.

Seems accurate. Seems like "students interests" is being used as a shield for protecting a racket.

Edit: reminds me of this article where a president of a 50k/year liberal arts college says all these student loans are necessary to keep high quality education. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/debt-gets-a-bad-rap-as-a-c...

[+] 1-6|3 years ago|reply
"By joining with the other schools that have chosen to withdraw from participation in the US News rankings this year..."

What other schools are doing this?

[+] wheats|3 years ago|reply
Harvard, Georgetown, and Colombia.
[+] eachro|3 years ago|reply
I think instead of overall rankings, it would be more informative for law schools to have rankings for the specific things people actually care about. So things like: prospects for getting a Big Law job, getting a federal law clerkship, doing public interest work, etc.

Sure, people will always care about overall ranking for the prestige (though I expect overall rankings to correlate highly with big law job odds/overall compensation) but at least if it's split up into these very specific sub-criteria, then people can't quite game the rankings in a dishonest way.

[+] ralph84|3 years ago|reply
The problem with that is the rankings are used as an input for hiring decisions, so then it's just a self-reinforcing feedback loop.
[+] 2Gkashmiri|3 years ago|reply
i've been seriously considering US LLM but 2 things are making me think still.

1. should i do online LLM from say arizona online LLM? that should give me a change to appear for arizona bar exam (theoretically i could move and get employment but i could also go other places internationally, just a tangent for now) 2. i hear i have to do tax llm to get some competent work as that is what most employers ask for, i saw 1-2 courses but doing them would not make me eligible for that state bar exam so there is that.

3. is here any law college that does online LLM but the degree is a regular LLM (does not mention online) and that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? arizona online is like $10k. 4. the prospects of a US LLM is nice, (prestige in india but again, i've heard tax LLM would be beneficial here also but again, any affordable online) 5. i dont want to "move" to the US unless i have a full scholarship ($100k can buy me a house for example and i don't have that kind of cash)

any suggestions?

[+] gnicholas|3 years ago|reply
Former tax lawyer here. Getting a general US LLM is very different from getting a tax LLM. Getting a tax LLM will not teach you about US law — it will presuppose that you know it already. I don't know what the prestige is in India for either of these degrees, but it wouldn't be rational that a tax LLM would be more prestigious than a regular LLM (which would be more useful for anything but tax). If you are looking at tax LLMs seriously, NYU and Georgetown are the most prestigious, but I have no idea if they offer online degrees. If you just want a US license to practice, I've heard that New Mexico has a very high (95%?) pass rate.
[+] justinzollars|3 years ago|reply
These rankings are all very silly. You should find the best program, faculty and institution that works for your needs.