[noasaservice]

> Interestingly, though, the way you talked about inducing collapse reminds me of a Vajrayana Buddhism guru type thing where the guru sometimes punches you in the self-centered weak spot in the context of practices that help you realize self-clinging as the ultimate source of the pain.

That happened to me after I came to a pagan high priestess. I tried to explain my problems.. but she knew already (learned narcissism and other terrible behaviors as a defense - terrible parents). She was able to do a ritual which was a forced ego-death. The ritual was maybe 5 minutes. None of the hollywood trappings. It allowed me to see me for who I am, others for who they were. Basically it reversed much of my extreme ego, and did similar to what Tonglen does... but in a span of a half hour. I broke down at least 5 times with the gravity of what I had done to others in my life.

My case was extreme. And since I explicitly asked, she did so. I asked her afterward the downsides (since I knew I was spiraling downward), and most people just crumble under that. And I'm still eminently grateful she did so.