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CT scan shows there's still lots of toner left in an “empty” cartridge

358 points| jonbruner | 3 years ago |lumafield.com | reply

270 comments

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[+] nuodag|3 years ago|reply
If you have a Samsung laserprinter with number pad and empty toner / imaging unit try menu # 1904 menu and reset the counter, then happily print thousands of pages more
[+] jdsully|3 years ago|reply
Unlike ink jets most laser printers will let you disable the low toner “lock outs” although by default it may refuse to print.

Then you just wait for the streaks to appear to know when you’re out. You can shake it to extend the life once that occurs. I’ve printed hundreds of pages after the printer said I was out of toner.

There’s probably some small quality loss but for text you don’t really notice if it’s not streaking.

[+] ceejayoz|3 years ago|reply
Yep; we went eighteen months between the first "no toner" and visible impact on print quality, despite two kids in school needing stuff printed daily.
[+] jiveturkey|3 years ago|reply
My laser doesn't _refuse_ to print, it makes you click through a warning on the printer itself for each print job. Like you said, that can be easily disabled (it's a menu item -- no secret procedure). I've found the toners to easily print double the nominal capacity.
[+] voxelghost|3 years ago|reply
On the topic of ink jets - I am so glad I changed to an Ink-tank printer a few years back - never going back
[+] unglaublich|3 years ago|reply
Manufacturers want to provide a product that produces reliable high quality prints. That's why the toner low warning comes up very early, so that there's no chance that your important documents look unprofessional due to low toner levels.

As a consumer, naturally, you can almost always ignore the warning and use the toner until you can't even read granny's apple pie recipe anymore.

[+] dlmiller|3 years ago|reply
That's not necessarily toner left in the cartridge. It could be developer. Laser printers have 2 separate forms of powder inside of them. One being toner, and the other being developer.

The developer has fine metal particulates inside that "charge" the toner, enabling the toner to be pulled off of the drum, and onto the page.

Larger copiers have the Developer, and toner separate. However, the cartridge pictured is the full process unit.

[+] gryf|3 years ago|reply
Yeah. My HP toner cartridge has been "empty" for about a year and is still printing fine! It has done more pages since it was empty than before it was empty.
[+] sidewndr46|3 years ago|reply
My HP LaserJet has been telling me that it is low for the better part of 10 years. Still prints fine.
[+] Steve44|3 years ago|reply
We have about five HP 4200 printers in our office and I use genuine 38X toners which I think are rated at 12,000 pages.

When we get a Toner Low message it'll then do about 500 pages before it reports Toner Out, after that print will rapidly fade. We can probably scrape 1-200 pages on Toner Out, but it's not good enough quality to send out.

Basically their Low and Out warnings seem pretty accurate in my experience.

[+] landswipe|3 years ago|reply
Same here, I'll only change it once I start seeing streaks, it must be a scam it has been like this for years.
[+] daneel_w|3 years ago|reply
Same with ink cartridges from all inkjet manufacturers. It's a massive case of fraud and environmental crime in one.
[+] novaRom|3 years ago|reply
It's not different from what a well-known company does with their devices by installing low-grade batteries with leaking capacity. Intentionally, planned obsolescence.
[+] TimTheTinker|3 years ago|reply
Looks like they market CT scanners. Otherwise I'd ask - why not cut it open instead?
[+] tailspin2019|3 years ago|reply
Somewhat related, I recently bought a Brita water filter jug which has a little led on the lid which glows red when the disposable filter cartridge has “expired” and needs replacing.

Before I even started to use the thing I knew what to expect. Sure enough it starts to glow red after a ridiculously short period of time of using a brand new filter cartridge.

I’ve been ignoring it for a few weeks now and checking for any difference in taste of the filtered water but haven’t detected anything yet. I’d recently been wondering about how to verify the filter’s effectiveness somehow as I’m sure this indicator is less than useless and essentially setup to “lie” for profit.

There should be laws against this sort of thing. Any indicator that tells you when a consumable needs to be replaced should have to meet some level of accuracy in order to be legal.

[+] ska|3 years ago|reply
> Any indicator that tells you when a consumable needs

I'm not a fan of the blinking reminders either, but it's not a monitor it's just a flashing version of the "remind me in the months" wheel or whatever.

The problem they face is a hard one. There are really two timelines you care about, one is how long it stays effective, the second is how long it is safe.

The first one especially is highly affected by both usage patterns and the water quality you are starting with. With an inline system I'd sort of hope to have reasonable monitoring, but Brita filters are fundamentally passive devices, to do this "properly" your going to 10x-100x your costs, maybe worse.

A less cynical (than pure profit motive) take on the timing would be that the lifteimes are all based on some sort of average case for usage and (bad?) test case for hardness and water quality. I suspect they have to be careful in what they say about how best to adjust this without opening themselves up to liability, so they don't.

[+] nebula8804|3 years ago|reply
So Brita filters are just activated Carbon that improve the taste and filter some of the worst pollutants but nothing else.

One way to test is using a TDS meter to see if over time the amount of dissolved solids increase. This is not a bulletproof test but it may give some indication of when the filter is saturated. Again, the Brite/PUR filters do not do much to begin with.

This video shows how the Brita filters perform compared to others. THey use a TDS meter. I do want to also point out that TDS is not the only metric for how good water is filtered but thats another conversation.

[1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja0ioX6GSz0

[+] shuntress|3 years ago|reply
Regulation regarding the truthfulness/accuracy of indicators probably wouldn't hurt.

But, the better solution is effective Right To Repair laws that coerce a minimum level of standards and open design.

For example, if Brita were required to publish the parameters of that part, you would be able to more easily make an informed decision regarding replacing that part (either by repairing it, cleaning it, refurbishing it, or replacing it with one from another maker) without the tedious guesswork and reverse engineering.

[+] dharma1|3 years ago|reply
Those filters (usually coconut shell carbon) can start having bacterial biofilm grow on them over time, and generally get saturated with gunk, that’s why you’re meant to change them frequently. I guess when they do depends on a lot of factors and the recommendation is an average length - ideally would have some better sensors on when to change them but gets more costly
[+] bikezen|3 years ago|reply
Can't say I've experienced the same thing, ours lasts pretty long and with our water you can start to taste the filter needing to be replaced shortly before the light goes red.

iirc Brita advertises the tracker monitors how long the pitcher is being tilted for, so there's some verbiage about avoiding doing certain things with it etc in the installation guide/manual.

[+] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
My fridge has something similar but at least it tells you what it does - it simply counts down 3 months.

So I just reset it and tell it there is a new one and it stops beeping at me.

[+] root_axis|3 years ago|reply
Just FYI, those brita jug indicators are based on a counter that increments every time the lid pops open from a pour, after a certain threshold the light changes color.
[+] zikduruqe|3 years ago|reply
My refrigerator recommends changing the filter every 6 months. Last filter change, I wrote the date on it with a Sharpie. Sure as shit, 6 months later, the light goes off to remind me to change the cartridge.
[+] pndy|3 years ago|reply
I'd say the unfiltered water quality still might matter in your case. I had to swap to the "stronger" orange marked Maxtra cartridges for harder water because the standard ones weren't actually helping. And I can tell the difference because our kettle gets less limescale now - that's also still the marker for me when filter is about to wear off. For our family one cartridge lasts for about a month now.

I'm using these jugs for 10 years already and the quality of these dropped significantly. The older Elemaris line (with "probes") had more durable plastic while the newer Style (with silicone lid handle) already broke twice during washing. At leas the rounded sensor is more waterproof than the "probe" - that one I had to replace twice and luckily the local distributor send these for free.

[+] lettergram|3 years ago|reply
You can use a TDSmeter to see how many particulates are in the water. Brita (as do many charcoal based filter) adds some particulates though. If your water naturally has a lot of stuff in it though, Brita will reduce it overall
[+] lozenge|3 years ago|reply
Save a cup from the end of the first filter and taste test against the first cup from the new filter?
[+] ogn3rd|3 years ago|reply
get a cheap TDS meter.
[+] jl6|3 years ago|reply
The modern answer to printer manufacturers' woes is of course to simply offer consumers a monthly subscription that unlocks the ability to use the ink that they've paid for. I mean, yes, you've already paid for the ink, but have you paid to use it? I think not. The store you bought the printer from will take a 30% cut too, to compensate them for the ongoing effort they expend in having sold you the printer.

The premium subscription could include indemnity insurance in the event that the onboard-AI detects and auto-reports you for printing any copyrighted material.

[+] ElijahLynn|3 years ago|reply
Bought an Epson "Ecotank" a few years ago, best printer I've ever had. Only had to refill the ink tanks a couple of times, and the refill ink is super affordable. Paid a much higher up-front cost for the printer but damn... I print out TONS of photos now, and don't have to worry about the ink cartridge depleting at a fast rate.
[+] jbm|3 years ago|reply
As a counterbalance, I bought that same one at Costco and hated it; I am much happier after switching to a Brother laser printer.

During the pandemic it was especially helpful for the kids' school work. I went through 3 or 4 ink cartridges (literally thousands of pages of printing), but the 3rd party cartridges worked fine and not expensive at all.

[+] Animats|3 years ago|reply
I still have one of those. I don't print enough to keep it from clogging, and often have to run two or three cleaning cycles after not using it for a few weeks. I had to refill black ink once, for a few dollars.
[+] culi|3 years ago|reply
Many printers are sold at a loss because the cartridges are where the money is made. I've heard of people buying brand new printers when their ink ran out because it was cheaper than new ink
[+] fitzroy|3 years ago|reply
Empty Ink Cartridge has Better Medical Access Than Most Americans
[+] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
I would like to see cartridges designed ecologically - refillable perhaps, or at least designed to flow as much out as possible - and allowing you to override the "toner low" warning and keep printing even if it's almost dry.
[+] kittyn|3 years ago|reply
i’m not buying it. i’ve replaced enough toner cartridges to know there’s significant weight difference between full and empty.

it’s a shill article for their industrial CT scanners

[+] loufe|3 years ago|reply
I can't stand forced product refills from the OEM. I refilled my Sodastream maybe a half dozen times before buying a 5lb tank, an adapter hose off Ebay. It paid for itself in 2 refills of the 5lb tank at a nearby homebrew store.
[+] jonbruner|3 years ago|reply
Also, the difference between a full cartridge and an empty cartridge is minimal; about 20% of the toner reservoir is filled in a new cartridge, dropping to 15% when the printer says the cartridge is empty.
[+] kossTKR|3 years ago|reply
I'll always remember when our fairly expensive prosumer all-in-one-printer suddenly wouldn't let me scan pages because there was "no more ink" in the printer right before an important task. A straight up scam.

I'm surprised no one has disrupted the sad state of affairs in the printer industry yet even though it's slowly dying.

[+] maerF0x0|3 years ago|reply
upvote both for such a cool application

but also to say that typically when my toner cartridges start to say "empty" or get a few streaks, all i have to do is pull it out, give it a few firm taps all around (think tapping a nail into drywall) and then give it a few horizontal shakes to redistribute the material across the drum. I get 100s of more pages this way doing it multiple times.

[+] jmyeet|3 years ago|reply
Never, ever, ever buy a printer that takes cartridges. They’re discounted to at or below cost where they make the money back on cartridges.

They use ink to clean the heads. They say empty when they’re not. The cartridges that come with the printer aren’t full. There is a constant firmware update war to defeat third party cartridges for obvious reasons.

Buy a tank printer that you fill with ink bottles.

[+] loloquwowndueo|3 years ago|reply
Well - buy the printer and once it runs out of ink toss it and buy another printer :)

I did that with an HP inkjet - got me out of trouble until it ran out, then I replaced with a Brother laser that was half of what the ink refills for the HP would have been. Toner for the Brother is like 20 bucks and lasts for a couple of years given my level of usage.

[+] 1123581321|3 years ago|reply
Better to buy a laser and send the occasional photo quality ink job out to a print shop, unless you’re running a creative studio.

Even the starter Brother laser toner prints for ages.

[+] bityard|3 years ago|reply
Sounds like you're talking about ink printers, TFA is about laser printers.

Laser printers are far more cost-effective than ink printers, and there are even color laser printers with very decent color quality for everything except photos. (Ink printers are better for photos but even I think those look terrible compared to professionally-developed photos.)

[+] aspectmin|3 years ago|reply
Any recommendations on a good tank printer?
[+] danw1979|3 years ago|reply
I spent three hours refilling each of the CMYK cartridges in my HP color laser the other night.

First you use a copper ring to melt a little hole in exactly the right spot, then scalpel open the bag inside, carefully pour and shake the toner from the bottle, all the while huffing clouds of pink and yellow and blue dust and then you find it’s got everywhere. Then you’ve got to use bathroom sealant around a plug in the hole. Then the plug is sticking out too far and you’ve got fade on one side of the page, so repeat the plugging step a few times.

The refill kit was £65. A new set of carts was £200. I’m still deciding if it was worth it.