[tomstokes]

> because some undeserving person (who is not in their group) might get it.

Surely someone, somewhere feels like this, but it’s more often a strawman argument used to make opposing arguments more easily dismissible. The discussions I have with people offline aren’t interested in these types of dismissals. I know many people who genuinely want better healthcare, cheaper education, and stronger social safety nets but who disagree with the specifics of proposals. Like most things in politics, if an argument reduces the other side to an easily-dismissible evil, it’s probably not an accurate representation of the counterarguments.

From real world anecdotes, the concern about things like student loan forgiveness (as the most recent example of an expensive social program being debated) are more about the extreme cost of the program contributing to an ever increasing list of expenditures. People are nervous about the amount of government spending and how it’s being distributed semi-randomly. This goes back to the rampant COVID loans to businesses, the stimulus programs that far overshot their target, and now proposals to give certain households with up to $250K income a free $10K.

People understand that these things do matter in a society where we’re all bidding for a limited supply of homes and such. It’s nice to imagine someone having a reduced debt load, but people still think about where that money comes from and how the uneven distribution of that money gives some people (excluding those who paid their loans off early) a financial leg up in places like the competitive housing market.

It’s all connected. The money must come from somewhere, and we’re all operating within the same markets. It’s disingenuous to pretend that there are no consequences for these programs, which IMO is where politicians fall far short of structuring them and pitching them to a wider audience.

[ilyt]

They seem to be way less opposed for government to bail out corporations from same tax money tho.

And I definitely knew many people that oppose to tax break or something for someone that's not in their group all while they enjoy some other tax break without problem and excuse that their one is fine.

[yucky]

    > They seem to be way less opposed for government to bail out corporations from same tax money tho.

Not really. We had nationwide Occupy protests about exactly that, from both sides of the aisle. Not only leftists were fed up, but it also spawned the Tea Party movement on the right.

[notacoward]

"Hands off my Medicare!" might be the prime example. Or farm subsidies. People who constantly argue that government is too expansive and always incompetent (or evil) literally seem to forget that programs benefiting them are in fact run by that same government.

[zimpenfish]

> the concern about things like student loan forgiveness [...] the extreme cost of the program contributing to an ever increasing list of expenditures.

SLF is a one-off cost (of between $400Bi and 1Ti depending on which plan you subscribe to) though. It's not like, say, the DOD which is currently burning $800Bi a year and rising - I would venture that the people happy to shoot down SLF are equally happy to keep that budget going up.

> People are nervous about the amount of government spending

...going to people they deem undeserving. They're perfectly happy with the amount spend on the DOD, DHS, etc.

[scythe]

Student loan forgiveness is not a one-off cost unless it's bundled with a reform that prevents the same debt from being accumulated again. I support the measure, but I wouldn't have supported it if it hadn't included the income-based repayment modifications that should limit the accumulation of unmanageable student debt in the future — I don't believe this goes far enough either, but that's a different topic. My point is that it's not possible for me to countenance supporting a reform that helps some people and "pulls up the ladder" not making it available to others in the future — generally derided as "borrowing against our children's futures".

[abeppu]

I think there's also a generational aspect to it. Student loan forgiveness is being painted as a cash transfer to younger generations who are somehow lazy, whereas moving cash from younger generations to older (e.g. social security) is sacrosanct.

[josephcsible]

> ...going to people they deem undeserving. They're perfectly happy with the amount spend on the DOD, DHS, etc.

Defense is what the government is supposed to be spending money on. It's a textbook example of a public good.

[kayodelycaon]

> Surely someone, somewhere feels like this

That would be my family when I was growing up. A lot of their beliefs are centered people should work for a living. If someone can't work, they are lazy and working people shouldn't have to pay to support them.

My parents have since moderated their stance on this but my dad still believes this is the way things should be. :(

I've moved away from home and very much do not share their view and don't associate with people like this. I still see this belief often enough to believe it's pretty dang common in the midwest among the lower middle class.

Edit:

I should note, everyone I've talked to do make exceptions for a few people they know.

Most of them are otherwise good, kind people. They abhor the idea of anyone else getting something they haven’t earned.

[sokoloff]

Is it that they abhor the idea of someone else getting something unearned, or that they are frustrated and fed up with the things that they have worked for and earned being denied to them (and only incidentally that they are given to someone else)?

[josephcsible]

> can't work

Are you sure you don't mean "can work but won't"?

[judge2020]

But what are the consequences? People has similar revelation when the national debt was about to surpass GDP, and yet no economy-ending consequences rose from that. In reality nobody really knows how debt works on a global scale, and those that try to understand it seem to do a fair job at keeping the economy afloat when they join FRB or the multinational conglomerates that have a stake in the US remaining economically stable.

[ss108]

We must live in alternate realities; I am old enough to remember polls from 2016-2018 that showed that rural conservative voters liked the Affordable Care Act and its provisions when it was labeled as such, and hated it when it was labeled as Obamacare.

I have also mostly heard "fairness"-based arguments against student debt relief.

[winReInstall]

The printing press, carried by atlas who needs the dollar?