Having spent many years in "Outbound" of Amazon Fulfillment, I'm skeptical that Amazon would ever know that they didn't send a fake item.
Items aren't inspected deeply when they arrive. Fakes can get in.
Items that are misplaced and later found are presumed to be good- no quality checks opening the package. If the barcode scans, the system just adds it.
The picker, sorter, packer all do a quick quality check to see if the box is broken. They sure aren't opening it to see what's inside.
All that's left is the weight check as the package leaves the building. The putty the scammers use weighs exactly the right amount.
The only time the item might be checked for being correct is when it's returned. And they do that because a lot of scammers buy the real item and then send back a box full of putty.
My guess? Someone didn't do a complete check on a previous return- hey, associates have to make rate or they'll be fired, corners get cut. The fake got restowed, resold, and then the second time it was returned someone did a real check.
Excellent analysis. But the issue here isn't that someone made a mistake somewhere.
But rather, that at a very high level: Amazon knows perfectly well that a certain percentage of its customers are getting screwed over, just as it knows it could probably do a lot more internally to prevent this kind of stuff from happening. But having sat down and done a "rational" cost-benefit analysis -- it has calmly decided that it plainly doesn't care, as long as it thinks it can get away with it.
That's just the way the company is - from the highest levels down.
If I’m the one spending $700 to buy something I should be able to demand the check every outgoing product equally rigorously too. They obviously deem it worth it when they reverse spend that amount.
Why buy something there if the odds are higher retailer is scamming you, not the other way around?
> Items aren't inspected deeply when they arrive. Fakes can get in.
I think stores like Walmart do the same thing for returns, most of the time I believe they just trust the customer, don't know what happens after though if they simply put it back in the isle if the packaging looks good.
I've spent ~100k on Amazon and have been a Prime member since introduction. Last month, I canceled my membership and stopped using Amazon altogether. I've never had a problem returning product. But Amazon pivoted from a discount retailer to a premium retailer of convenience. In some cases, products are 3-4x the price of local retailers. I'd rather spend the money locally than pay a premium to Amazon.
>But Amazon pivoted from a discount retailer to a premium retailer of convenience.
While it's true that they don't always have the best prices on everything, that's pretty much the exact opposite of my main gripe with Amazon. They pivoted into being a shitty bazaar.
I recently cancelled my membership when I realised that shopping elsewhere allowed me to save money the majority of the time. I had already become disillusioned by the number of dubious listings on Amazon and the volume of fake reviews.
I find it far less stressful shopping on sites with curated lists of products.
I do the opposite and buy directly from AliExpress if need some low quality low cost stuff. Good examples: cheap SATA to USB enclosures and self adhesive “leather” for keyboard repair. Or cheap LED lamps for occasional use or generic bicycle parts. All these things were 2-6x more expensive on Amazon.
There are several videos on tiktok/etc about "hustling" and flipping stuff on Amazon, find some product on sale locally, buy, then "sell it on Amazon"
As much as I doubt it is very efficient, but it does seem efficient at bringing the brand value down (Amazon's, that is), if you turn it into a glorified eBay
I haven't found much better deals from stores than from Amazon. Maybe except for stores like Costco, but for comparing to Walmart, if I'm buying something at least $20 or so, Amazon tends to have the price around the same point.
If I compare to other stores, it depends on the deal you can find. I got lucky for getting a close out model of an AVR at Electronic Express that works perfectly.
> "I'd rather spend the money locally than pay a premium to Amazon."
I wish that could be the case with me, but I mostly order very specific items that I can't source locally (even in a large city) and need them ASAP. Amazon does that VERY well. I can order a weird camera accessory at 4pm and have it at my door at 7am the next day.
Just this week Amazon shipped me a tempered with product similar to the one in the article (although $21 not almost $700). Shipped and sold on Amazon, and then rejected my review where I warned others and provided photos (actually both of the last two, negative, reviews I've tried to post got rejected).
Ordered some LEGO for Christmas. On arrival someone had opened the box, removed the LEGO, replaced it with other random LEGO pieces (to make up the weight?) and re-sealed it. This then, I suspect, got sent back out to a new customer without Amazon tracking that it was a previous return (or there is some other issue with their supply-chain).
Either way hurts confidence with Amazon, and if Amazon are going to accuse the next victim of return-fraud, that isn't ok. Amazon needs to start tracking previously returned items that get sent out again, so they can see the origin of the fraud.
That's the next thing, they outright reject negative reviews.
They even share your contact info with the seller, so your review isn't anonymous at all.
I got harassed via email by a seller once because I gave him a negative review.
The USB hub I bought was brittle and broke after the warranty period.
In every US state there are small claims courts for precisely these issues.
Not that this necessarily helps this particular family which is in Canada. But that’s the way to deal with this kind of thing. The article appears to say that Amazon simply shrugged.
It is touching that the father says that they have been loyal customers. Like most big companies, Amazon doesn’t care about that, with their customers nor employees.
There is also a little known EU small claims court.[1] It costs 200 Euro and no lawyer to submit a case, and you get the 200 Euro back when the case is successful.
Another useful response is getting the media to publish a story and give AMZN a little public shame. It helps pressure the company to "do the right thing."
Best of all, people don't need to choose only one!
> . . . loyal customers . . . Amazon doesn't care about that . . .
Makes for an even better bad publicity story, though, doesn't it?
Some of Amazon's policies are real head scratchers. Last year I bought a high end ultrawide monitor from them. I believe I paid about $1500 for it originally. Two or three days after it arrived, it went on sale for about $300 less. IME most companies have a policy in the fine print where if an item goes on sale less than a week after purchase they'll refund the difference, if you ask. So I contact Amazon support. The agent insisted that no refund was possible but that I should return the monitor for a refund and order a new one at the lower price. It boggled my mind so much that I asked them explicitly if they understand that they'd be paying for return shipping (at least $50 given the size and weight of the monitor), they'd be getting back an open box item that would lose probably 20-30% of its value, and I'd get back the $300. They said yeah, that was just how the system worked...
FWIW I've been told similar by Costco too, so Amazon isn't unique in this respect. My guess is that it adds some friction to the process. Refunding money is a purely digital activity, while refunding requires to you go and ship it, wait for the new item to arrive, etc, so you won't do it unless the savings are worth the time investment.
I used to go to a local brick and mortar store and checkout a product and order it from Amazon. These days I go to a store and go to Amazon to check reviews and then buy it from the store. How tables have turned for Amazon.
> These days I go to a store and go to Amazon to check reviews and then buy it from the store.
Why? Where I live Amazon has way better availability of products. The local stores might have a single model of anything I want while Amazon has dozens. If I'm looking for the best product that matches my requirements, I never check local stores because it's always a disappointment.
Maybe if it's a recurring purchase and the local store has a decent price (it doesn't need to be extremely better), I'll switch to buying from them. But that's rare.
I strongly suspect prioritized handling or some other points-based system that classifies customers and the quality of care they 'deserve'.
I've had 1 or 2 issues before (things late, wrong things etc) and all of them were handled nearly instantly and pleasantly, where I got the benefit of the doubt and left deeply satisfied.
Fast-forward to a week or so ago. I had a shipment coming in, paid extra for 2-day delivery. It was late, but I really needed it by a certain date because I was traveling after. First rep I got said they'd pull some strings to get it routed earlier, offered some refunded shipping etc. Awesome service like I was used to.
I looked later and the updated shipping wasn't shown, so I wasn't sure it went through. So I contacted again the next day and got... slightly less good service. They actually said the rerouting might happen, and maybe I could get a pickup, but to check again the next day if it moved. I contacted them a third time the next day and this was the worst service I had ever gotten. The rep said there was nothing to be done... no discount for inconvenience, no expedited shipping, no early pickup options, literally nothing. They actually even kept the chat open after we were done talking so I couldn't leave negative feedback. I was floored. After years of amazing service I couldn't believe it... it didn't even feel like the same company.
In the end, it did come early (looks like the first rep did what they promised, just took a while to show up) but in the meantime, contacting them several times about the same issue downgraded me to "not worth helping" customer status.
I've noticed (like others mentioned) that the quality of goods available on Amazon has downgraded significantly recently, so I suspect that means more people contact more frequently with issues.
Rather than interpreting it as a quality-of-goods problem, I suspect they've interpreted it as a quality-of-customer problem; that is, they've decided more and more customers have downgraded themselves from "generally good customer we should keep happy" to "customer who will complain about anything -- not worth keeping happy".
Don't buy anything involving electricity or that you put on or in your body. At least this fake video card didn't burn down their house, unlike other Amazon-sold counterfeit products they also try to wash their hands of liability for.
(the marketplace model fundamentally fails for high end good that are easily faked and hard to verify... insurance (and self-insurance) can help somewhat but ultimately the math leads to "buyer beware"... e.g. eBay, etsy, etc. For this reason, we're seeing the rise of "hand verified" e-commerce for high end categories like collectible sneakers)
At the start of the article it cites Amazon’s “declining profits,” but later it says Amazon’s $386 billion a year in profits is growing at a slowing pace and might start growing by less than 20% year over year. What hardship.
I think by "declining profits" they are referencing a specific line of business, not "Amazon" proper.
Look at Alexa as an example.. It has racked up substantial losses yet "Amazon" is profitable.
I've often heard that Amazon's retail devision isn't a big money maker?
I think people are seeing actions Amazon is taking to shore-up its retail side (less generous return policy, their "Free for all " market place, commingling inventory..).
Comingled inventory FTW! As a vendor, Why send in the real product to FBA when i can send a fake one and get paid the same amount? It even lets me undercut on price!
I've recorded every Amazon unboxing (including a full recording around every angle of the unopened shipping box) I've done for every large ($100+) purchase I made with Amazon for years when I first heard claims like this arise, and it actually proved fruitful when Amazon shipped me a counterfeit 2080 Super mid pandemic. They refused to believe me until I sent an unlisted YouTube link of the unboxing.
They shipped me an LED bulb... in a padded envelope
It was absolutely destroyed in shipment. They accepted the return, but what a waste of my time, and now I can't trust anything remotely fragile to be shipped successfully from them.
Wow this is still happening? I actually wrote about a similar phenomenon of replacing iPhones with clay back in 2016 and apparently Amazon still hasn't figured out a way to stop this.
This poor customer is actually paying the price of a scam played by someone earlier. You buy an expensive product, Amazon ships it noting the weight, then you replace the product with clay and "return" it back to Amazon who is none the wiser.
Then when this customer cries foul, Amazon has no way of knowing for certain whether this customer is the scammer, or whether it was a prior individual! So many crazy downstream implications of their "free" return policy, and of course it's usually the customer that foots the bill in the end.
Just FYI if this happens to you email jeff@amazon.com and it gets sorted in a few weeks. Happened to my despite being a long time customer with over £20k orders.
1% of people who do that get it addressed, and tell everyone else it works. 99% of people never get the slightest response. Same for any other "email the CEO" address.
“He threatened to sue for $10,000 and received a full refund the next day” from the article about someone else dealing with Amazon.
I had to email ‘Jeff’ and threaten to sue Amazon as well, sent them an email with a mountain of evidence showing that I was obviously correct and explained that I would easily win at small claims court. I got my money back the next day with no further communication at all.
Recently cancelled my prime membership. Not a huge expense in the grand scheme of things but I could no longer justify the cost for only expedited shipping. Have also tried to cut back on my spending on amazon with sheer amount of crap that gets sold on the platform at elevated prices. Definetly had me thinking about my own level of consumerism and realizing there was just no need for that level of Amazon in my life.
Not sure how many others have gone through that thought process or if the average consumer thinks about it even. With most stores offer instore/curbside pickup I wonder if it will eventually eat into any of Amazon's marketshare.
Amazon seems to be "leaning into" being a souk for counterfeit and scam merchandisers. They make a lot of money from it, and it appears as if they have not received enough brand damage to stop it.
I've had a couple of issues with receiving fake (or gray market) stuff from them, to the point, where I no longer go to Amazon for many purchases, and, instead, go directly to the manufacturer's sites (they may route me through their own Amazon store, though). I don't really care, if I spend a bit more. At least, I'll get what I paid for.
I had something similar happen to me in Germany.
A FireTV stick LAN cable adapter, which didn't work.
I returned both the Ftv stick and the adapter in the same package.
The stick was marked as received, the adapter wasn't.
I wrote then 4 times. No response.
The 5th time I wrote an angry mail threatening to go to the police.
Literally the next day I received an apology email that it was a mistake on their end.
At least it was resolved.
But the nerves it cost me... no compensation for that.
I don't appreciate being called a fraud.
I use this fancy 3M “Velcro” called Dual Lock a lot. It’s expensive but awesome. I order it from 3M on Amazon. In 2020 about half of the time it was counterfeit. The adhesive was slimy, stank, and would fuck up anything you put it on. The packaging varied widely. I never tried to return it, I just kind of collected them.
Now that I think about it, the same thing happened to me with some modular dewalt storage bins. The yellow dewalt logos are a different color on two of them and they are a little off in fit spec.
A few months back I ordered an Xbox Series X from Amazon but a large box arrived with nothing but some plastic picnic forks in it. Luckily I managed to get the driver to pose for a selfie with the box showing there was no Xbox. In this case I think they had sold out and decided to ship "something" instead of cancel the order as they didn't even ask for photo proof that the box was empty.
This happened to me. Bought AirPods Pro a couple of months back for £250. I received a cheap garbage speaker worth ~£10. I spent ridiculous amount of stress and time trying to get it sorted with Amazon to no avail. Amazon kept telling me to return the AirPods I never received. It was the fourth Apple product I bought from Amazon in twelve months yet they still refused to help me after they had delivered me the wrong item.
It is happening to so many people at the moment in the UK so stay away from Amazon. See here:
I had a very similar experience except it was a 1st gen MS surface book packaged in a 2nd box. They look nearly identical.
Spent months getting gaslighted by Amazon support.
My coworker who'd previously worked at Amazon Fulfillment suggested I email jeff@amazon.com directly. The case was picked up by a higher-level CS rep and they reversed the charges. No apology or concessions for the horrible experience otherwise. I truly hate this company.
Happened to me - was buying a warehouse deal used Apple TV 4k, have gotten an old "normal" HD version instead. After sending it back, they said its an old version and recycled it. Had no chance to get my money back nor the apple tv back.
Ebay is not better. I was in Spain and our servers were in a datacenter in the States. One of the HDDs in RAID1 failed, and the array was in the critical state on our master DB. It was critical correcting this failure as soon as possible. I ordered a new HDD from ebay from a seller with 100% positive feedback directly to the datacenter and organized remote hands there to install it. When RAID rebuilt, smartctl showed that the HDD has more than 40k powered on hours.
I am afraid the days if high trust society, where services like ebay could function, are over.
One of the best things about Amazon has always been their returns. They shipped me a faulty GPU (actually I suspect it might have broken when the delivery guy slammed the box down after refusing my help carrying it up the stairs when I saw him struggling)
It wasn’t broken in an obvious way but when it maxed out the PC would just freeze every single time. Asked for a return handed it over to a random shop drop off point and they refunded $1000 right away before the item even went back.
I accidentlly bought the wrong thing the other day. It was in my cart and amazon removed it as it was no longer available from the seller and 'recommended' something else, same price, very similiar name.
When it arrived i realized what had taken place and tried to return it. Amazon charged me $20 for return shipping.
It was my mistake, exacerbated by amazon removing the item from my cart and offering a similar named item. I've used amazon for many years and only returned like 3 things in 10+ years and amazon always supplied a return shipping label.
Now they charge for it?
Adding insult to injury I ordered a replacement on Nov 24 and it wont get here until Dec 6 (originally Dec 12).
I could and should have just went to the local store, gotten the correct product which they have in stock for the same price and saved myself $20 and 2 weeks??
I suspect the varied experiences with returns in child comments is due to Amazon's use of algorithms that scan your purchase history and behavior. It's doubtful Amazon has blanket policies for returns or other customer support issues when they have such detailed stats on how 'good' a customer you are.
> $1000 right away before the item even went back.
They don’t do this anymore. I recently bought a hard drive and found the anti static bag was opened. When I returned it Amazon made it clear I would not get a refund until it was back at the warehouse. I dropped it at a Whole Foods return desk and got my refund days later.
I can see how the shitshow commenced though. Instead of contacting Amazon via chat and providing a few photos to document the process the family did a regular return which off was in turn picked up as fraudulent.. No one's fault in particular but annoying situation for sure!!
Reality for me has always been that Amazon is rather flawless on return policy (in the UK anyway!)
When you're making a return, Amazon has a field that allows you to say that the product delivered does not match the purchase (the wording is not quite that, and they have a few variants). I don't feel like there's a need for a chat if the form already allows me to say that and do not require sending any pictures. They could follow up if they felt the need, before issuing the return code.
Amazon has a bad process for these cases and seems not interested in fixing it.
Yeah. The automated return process is going to try to force you to mail things back. If you can force your way through their byzantine process that hides trying to get to a human behind a chatbot, you can eventually make your way to the proper humans that will actually issue a refund.
Worst off you email jeff@ or jassy@ and some executive assistant eventually picks it up.
Anything that I buy from a Facebook group or something similar over $x, I set up a camera and record myself opening the product. Anything that I sell over $x, I record evidence of packing and shipping. I don't really have a set value for x, but it's definitely under $690. That might not have made a difference with Amazon, but it can't hurt.
Unrelated, but does anyone know someone in Amazon? I was searching for something and ended up finding many firearm accessories very clearly intentionally mislabeled, and at suspiciously low prices (less than 1/5 of retail price at a normal gun store) that they're either of dubious and unsafe quality, or stolen.
I like to record a video when I am opening parcels that a contain a valuable product to try to avoid these kind of discussions. Worked once with Amazon
I bought an iPhone 14 a while back and they 'lost' the first two times. Third attempt it finally arrived but they appeared to use a different delivery service
Amazon did the same thing to me recently. They shipped me the wrong socks, and are refusing the refund the money unless I send back the ones they sent me, despite the fact that it's blatantly illegal in the U.S. for a company to force you to return something mailed to you that you didn't order.
If you placed the order, and the wrong item was sent to fulfill your order, you can be required to return it. That's not an unsolicited package.
In the U.S., it is illegal for a retailer to send an unsolicited item and demand payment. This is not that case; you requested an item, they just sent the wrong one.
So to push this to absurd dimensions, if Amazon sent you a Tesla instead of a paper clip due to some erroneous internal process, you could keep the Tesla and still demand Amazon send you the paper clip?
I doubt you are correct that you don't have to return it. If the item was sent to you by mistake then the law requires you to return it under the legal theory of unjust enrichment. You can only keep it if the unsolicited item was sent to you intentionally.
Here's a link for the U.S. state of Georgia but I would expect it to be the same in any state:
"When you receive promotional merchandise that you did not order, you have the right to keep it as a free gift. ..It is a different matter if the mailing you received was due to a mistake by the company. In these circumstances, Georgia law regarding “unjust enrichment” obligates you to return the item paid for by another customer. The company, however, will have to pay postage and handling or make arrangements to pick it up."
Out of curiosity, can you describe how that happened? I always get refunds from them as soon as items are shipped back, before amz actually receive them.
A friend of mine recently ordered a Chromebook which was on sale during the black friday week. Some days later, he gets a message from Amazon that the computer got "lost in the mail", but they refuse to send him a new device for the same price.
Amazon Prime has become a prime (haha) example of how capitalism is failing. It's not the best price, it's not faster anymore, it's not good quality and you can't trust anybody.
Amazon is being flooded with the cheapest of the cheapest stuff from China and alike. Either with ripoffs of well-known products or just 25 items which look the same but are from different "brands". Finding "good stuff" for a topic you don't know about is getting harder and harder.
Those items also aren't cheap though, I've found better quality items at a local store for nearly the same price. Lazyness just made me buy it quickly on Amazon, because I thought it was the easiest (as in "cheapest + fastest") way.
You also don't whether those items are good after all. Reviews are 50/50 mixed with people who were paid by the manufacturer for a positive review or by competitors who want to make a product look bad. My personal favorite for the last time probably was a "is this any good?" question where somebody responded with "I've made you a quick video" and posted a hiqh quality, advertisement video. These reviews and answers are so blatantly fake but there's no way to report them. Amazon doesn't care after all, too. So, the trust is gone.
Ok, but we'll receive the items quick and be able to judge them by ourselves then? No. Prime regularly takes 3-5 working days for me now. I don't know what thei problems is, but does anybody remember the times when you received a month of Prime for free if your item was not delivered on time? That's long gone.
Prime, at this point, is just "free shipping", nothing more.
I had a similar experience ordering the original Xbox Elite controller. In the case was a very beaten up standard controller someone must have returned in its place. I reported it and thankfully they took it back without issue.
Something similar happened to me in 2000 on eBay. I was 16. Entering college and bought a desktop computer from eBay. I got a case with nothing inside. eBay didn’t do anything to help. Never shopped with them since.
Actually, there is. The idea here is that even though one party is immense that they should be able to get away with dishonest business practices is abhorrent and it serves a purpose to point this out in places where there are lots of eyeballs. For one it helps to warn people that this stuff could happen to their order too, for another it may help to bring together people that have had similar things happen to them so that they can take collective action, which stands a much better chances of being effective.
Keep in mind that companies the size of Amazon are sensitive to their reputation and to statistics and as along as you are an isolated case they will not change their processes or attitude but there is a lot of strength in numbers.
The issue is not that it occurs, like you say with such volume mistakes will be made. The issue is that Amazon’s processes and systems are failing as there’s no resolution and no escalation path for resolution.
Amazon is a pretty systematic company with support scripts out the wazoo. Their scripts don’t include a method for a customer who got a $690 fake part.
That’s the noteworthy part. There’s likely many other similar incidents that aren’t reported.
This is also notable that Amazon went decades without such shitty processes, so now they are starting to crumble and decay.
I disagree, it forms a pattern of behavior of amazon that shoppers need to factor in when making buying choices
and it seem consumers are starting to factor that in, I saw reports that Walmart did better this year in sales volume for Black Friday then Amazon, combined with them laying off mass numbers of people we may be seeing Amazon fall from "king of retail"
How many others are there out there that can not get the news media to cover their story that are just out the money? This type of fraud, and other types of counterfeits are wide spread problems for Amazon they continue to not address, and will not address unless it starts impacting their sales. In order for it to impact their sales people have to start shopping elsewhere
This is exactly the kind of corroboration I need to know that Amazon's (NASDAQ: AMZN) commingling practices have gone completely off the rails. It was time-consuming and annoying to be victim to it and use their no-questions-asked return policy, especially as a Prime member. The liability rests upon them, and as long as prices still were better than any other source, consumers were content to continue buying from Amazon.
It is entirely different when the commingling fraud's liability is shifted to the consumer. In this case, the consumer hopefully paid by credit card and the card issuing company dings Amazon in a dispute. But I now know that if anyone or I ever get the same static from Amazon about a purchase, my advice will be to go straight to the card issuer and register a disputed charge instead of letting Amazon run out the clock on the allowed dispute period.
I remember buying a Google Nexus phone way back, having it delivered to my home. Only to find an empty box, someone had stolen it in transit.
All I did was report the theft to the police so I got a case number, then sent the case number to the vendor and a new phone was in my hands within a week. That's how socialist sweden works.
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. Returns for Amazon-fulfilled items have been awesome for me, even when it's something like this where they sent the wrong product or even no product. I once received an empty bag. No problem, they refunded me and I bought another.
When dealing with things shipped directly from the seller, you're going to have to deal with them directly for returns. I almost never buy like this because I like having Amazon's return policy to fall back on. If they start denying me, I'll definitely start looking for another store to buy from that has a better policy.
At least in Europe, buying from Amazon directly is no guarantee for getting what you paid for. You can find numerous reports online of people who purchased expensive electronics items from Amazon directly and received cheap garbage of approximately the same weight. People had to go to great lengths to get their money back from Amazon.
Search for "unordered merchandise" on that page. Also see "Substitutions"
As I said, I am not a lawyer, but I've always took that to mean if I order X and receive Y then I received Y for free. The company that sent me Y still owes me X and I have zero obligation to return Y. I never asked for Y, it's unordered merchandise.
So, if I ordered a PS5 and the send me a PS4 I get to keep the PS4, they still owe me a PS5. I ordered a 256gig iPhone and they send me a 128gig iPhone they still owe me a 256gig iPhone and the 128gig iPhone is mine to keep.
Now of course if I don't return the item, at their expense, they may refuse to do business with me in the future but at least as far as I can tell the wrong item is not what I ordered, therefore it is an unordered item. They still have the obligation to provide the item ordered or refund the money, and I have zero obligaton to return the unordered item.
The point of that law is to shut down scams where companies send you stuff without you ording anything (or, in most cases, ever having heard from them) and then demand payment.
I am also not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure it does not apply when you do order something and there is just a mistake about the details.
mabbo|3 years ago
Items aren't inspected deeply when they arrive. Fakes can get in.
Items that are misplaced and later found are presumed to be good- no quality checks opening the package. If the barcode scans, the system just adds it.
The picker, sorter, packer all do a quick quality check to see if the box is broken. They sure aren't opening it to see what's inside.
All that's left is the weight check as the package leaves the building. The putty the scammers use weighs exactly the right amount.
The only time the item might be checked for being correct is when it's returned. And they do that because a lot of scammers buy the real item and then send back a box full of putty.
My guess? Someone didn't do a complete check on a previous return- hey, associates have to make rate or they'll be fired, corners get cut. The fake got restowed, resold, and then the second time it was returned someone did a real check.
akhmatova|3 years ago
But rather, that at a very high level: Amazon knows perfectly well that a certain percentage of its customers are getting screwed over, just as it knows it could probably do a lot more internally to prevent this kind of stuff from happening. But having sat down and done a "rational" cost-benefit analysis -- it has calmly decided that it plainly doesn't care, as long as it thinks it can get away with it.
That's just the way the company is - from the highest levels down.
eproxus|3 years ago
Why buy something there if the odds are higher retailer is scamming you, not the other way around?
robofanatic|3 years ago
I think stores like Walmart do the same thing for returns, most of the time I believe they just trust the customer, don't know what happens after though if they simply put it back in the isle if the packaging looks good.
MonkeyMalarky|3 years ago
shanebellone|3 years ago
thfuran|3 years ago
While it's true that they don't always have the best prices on everything, that's pretty much the exact opposite of my main gripe with Amazon. They pivoted into being a shitty bazaar.
SilkRoadie|3 years ago
I find it far less stressful shopping on sites with curated lists of products.
lnsru|3 years ago
raverbashing|3 years ago
As much as I doubt it is very efficient, but it does seem efficient at bringing the brand value down (Amazon's, that is), if you turn it into a glorified eBay
ThunderSizzle|3 years ago
If I compare to other stores, it depends on the deal you can find. I got lucky for getting a close out model of an AVR at Electronic Express that works perfectly.
pwython|3 years ago
I wish that could be the case with me, but I mostly order very specific items that I can't source locally (even in a large city) and need them ASAP. Amazon does that VERY well. I can order a weird camera accessory at 4pm and have it at my door at 7am the next day.
SkyPuncher|3 years ago
My experience has been largely the opposite. Amazon has pivoted to selling junk that now ships more slowly.
I still buy a lot of stuff from them, but am increasingly looking to competitors who actually curate their items.
Blue111|3 years ago
Someone1234|3 years ago
Ordered some LEGO for Christmas. On arrival someone had opened the box, removed the LEGO, replaced it with other random LEGO pieces (to make up the weight?) and re-sealed it. This then, I suspect, got sent back out to a new customer without Amazon tracking that it was a previous return (or there is some other issue with their supply-chain).
Either way hurts confidence with Amazon, and if Amazon are going to accuse the next victim of return-fraud, that isn't ok. Amazon needs to start tracking previously returned items that get sent out again, so they can see the origin of the fraud.
lakomen|3 years ago
gumby|3 years ago
Not that this necessarily helps this particular family which is in Canada. But that’s the way to deal with this kind of thing. The article appears to say that Amazon simply shrugged.
It is touching that the father says that they have been loyal customers. Like most big companies, Amazon doesn’t care about that, with their customers nor employees.
jonathanstrange|3 years ago
[1] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...
philistine|3 years ago
https://kahanelaw.com/alberta-provincial-court-process-under...
drewcoo|3 years ago
That is one possible way to respond.
Another useful response is getting the media to publish a story and give AMZN a little public shame. It helps pressure the company to "do the right thing."
Best of all, people don't need to choose only one!
> . . . loyal customers . . . Amazon doesn't care about that . . .
Makes for an even better bad publicity story, though, doesn't it?
heliodor|3 years ago
kennend3|3 years ago
This took place in Alberta so - https://albertacourts.ca/pc/areas-of-law/civil/claims
lamp987|3 years ago
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Merad|3 years ago
elexhobby|3 years ago
robofanatic|3 years ago
gtirloni|3 years ago
Why? Where I live Amazon has way better availability of products. The local stores might have a single model of anything I want while Amazon has dozens. If I'm looking for the best product that matches my requirements, I never check local stores because it's always a disappointment.
Maybe if it's a recurring purchase and the local store has a decent price (it doesn't need to be extremely better), I'll switch to buying from them. But that's rare.
Waterluvian|3 years ago
I tried to use it and everything idles for a week before shipping so I’ll probably stop buying even the basics from Amazon.
And something I’ve discovered: many many other stores have caught right up. Buying from Walmart or Canadian Tire or Home Depot is just as easy.
I’m so glad that blacklisting Amazon isn’t actually a sacrifice I thought it might be. Tells me that competition is still somewhat healthy.
S0und|3 years ago
This might be OP, or someone got the same exact fake card.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1435830-did-i-receive-a-fake...
i_dont_know_|3 years ago
I've had 1 or 2 issues before (things late, wrong things etc) and all of them were handled nearly instantly and pleasantly, where I got the benefit of the doubt and left deeply satisfied.
Fast-forward to a week or so ago. I had a shipment coming in, paid extra for 2-day delivery. It was late, but I really needed it by a certain date because I was traveling after. First rep I got said they'd pull some strings to get it routed earlier, offered some refunded shipping etc. Awesome service like I was used to.
I looked later and the updated shipping wasn't shown, so I wasn't sure it went through. So I contacted again the next day and got... slightly less good service. They actually said the rerouting might happen, and maybe I could get a pickup, but to check again the next day if it moved. I contacted them a third time the next day and this was the worst service I had ever gotten. The rep said there was nothing to be done... no discount for inconvenience, no expedited shipping, no early pickup options, literally nothing. They actually even kept the chat open after we were done talking so I couldn't leave negative feedback. I was floored. After years of amazing service I couldn't believe it... it didn't even feel like the same company.
In the end, it did come early (looks like the first rep did what they promised, just took a while to show up) but in the meantime, contacting them several times about the same issue downgraded me to "not worth helping" customer status.
I've noticed (like others mentioned) that the quality of goods available on Amazon has downgraded significantly recently, so I suspect that means more people contact more frequently with issues.
Rather than interpreting it as a quality-of-goods problem, I suspect they've interpreted it as a quality-of-customer problem; that is, they've decided more and more customers have downgraded themselves from "generally good customer we should keep happy" to "customer who will complain about anything -- not worth keeping happy".
Let's hope they fix their algorithm.
grej|3 years ago
lunarplague|3 years ago
fmajid|3 years ago
asah|3 years ago
(the marketplace model fundamentally fails for high end good that are easily faked and hard to verify... insurance (and self-insurance) can help somewhat but ultimately the math leads to "buyer beware"... e.g. eBay, etsy, etc. For this reason, we're seeing the rise of "hand verified" e-commerce for high end categories like collectible sneakers)
dgreensp|3 years ago
kennend3|3 years ago
Look at Alexa as an example.. It has racked up substantial losses yet "Amazon" is profitable.
I've often heard that Amazon's retail devision isn't a big money maker?
I think people are seeing actions Amazon is taking to shore-up its retail side (less generous return policy, their "Free for all " market place, commingling inventory..).
luckylion|3 years ago
malfist|3 years ago
But make no mistake, it's still record profit after record profit each year.
But I guess having this year's record profit be only slightly larger than last year's record profit means we need layoffs.
croes|3 years ago
dismalpedigree|3 years ago
valdiorn|3 years ago
Where do you think all those organized shoplifters sell their inventory of stolen perfumes and deodorant?
Amazon!
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
eganist|3 years ago
I don't have prime anymore. Why would I?
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
kup0|3 years ago
It was absolutely destroyed in shipment. They accepted the return, but what a waste of my time, and now I can't trust anything remotely fragile to be shipped successfully from them.
coryfklein|3 years ago
This poor customer is actually paying the price of a scam played by someone earlier. You buy an expensive product, Amazon ships it noting the weight, then you replace the product with clay and "return" it back to Amazon who is none the wiser.
Then when this customer cries foul, Amazon has no way of knowing for certain whether this customer is the scammer, or whether it was a prior individual! So many crazy downstream implications of their "free" return policy, and of course it's usually the customer that foots the bill in the end.
[0] http://coryklein.com/2016/06/20/scammers-replacing-iphones-w...
antihero|3 years ago
dmd|3 years ago
cjbgkagh|3 years ago
I had to email ‘Jeff’ and threaten to sue Amazon as well, sent them an email with a mountain of evidence showing that I was obviously correct and explained that I would easily win at small claims court. I got my money back the next day with no further communication at all.
mozman|3 years ago
infecto|3 years ago
Not sure how many others have gone through that thought process or if the average consumer thinks about it even. With most stores offer instore/curbside pickup I wonder if it will eventually eat into any of Amazon's marketshare.
ChrisMarshallNY|3 years ago
Amazon seems to be "leaning into" being a souk for counterfeit and scam merchandisers. They make a lot of money from it, and it appears as if they have not received enough brand damage to stop it.
I've had a couple of issues with receiving fake (or gray market) stuff from them, to the point, where I no longer go to Amazon for many purchases, and, instead, go directly to the manufacturer's sites (they may route me through their own Amazon store, though). I don't really care, if I spend a bit more. At least, I'll get what I paid for.
lakomen|3 years ago
stuntkite|3 years ago
Now that I think about it, the same thing happened to me with some modular dewalt storage bins. The yellow dewalt logos are a different color on two of them and they are a little off in fit spec.
What a fascinating problem.
alexhjones|3 years ago
thedanishdev|3 years ago
It is happening to so many people at the moment in the UK so stay away from Amazon. See here:
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/23150437.uea-students-macbook-a...
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-ordered-569-i...
I’m never using them again after this experience. It has been an absolute nightmare. Joke of a company.
jsnelgro|3 years ago
Johann2|3 years ago
CaptainZapp|3 years ago
The reason for this was their bait and witch regarding their privacy policy and since then I have never bought anything from them.
This decision seems to be better by the day.
cft|3 years ago
whywhywhywhy|3 years ago
It wasn’t broken in an obvious way but when it maxed out the PC would just freeze every single time. Asked for a return handed it over to a random shop drop off point and they refunded $1000 right away before the item even went back.
kennend3|3 years ago
When it arrived i realized what had taken place and tried to return it. Amazon charged me $20 for return shipping.
It was my mistake, exacerbated by amazon removing the item from my cart and offering a similar named item. I've used amazon for many years and only returned like 3 things in 10+ years and amazon always supplied a return shipping label.
Now they charge for it?
Adding insult to injury I ordered a replacement on Nov 24 and it wont get here until Dec 6 (originally Dec 12).
I could and should have just went to the local store, gotten the correct product which they have in stock for the same price and saved myself $20 and 2 weeks??
briHass|3 years ago
ViViDboarder|3 years ago
They don’t do this anymore. I recently bought a hard drive and found the anti static bag was opened. When I returned it Amazon made it clear I would not get a refund until it was back at the warehouse. I dropped it at a Whole Foods return desk and got my refund days later.
988747|3 years ago
Seems like a very heavy GPU, GeForce 4090 RTX, I suppose?
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
dingdingdang|3 years ago
Reality for me has always been that Amazon is rather flawless on return policy (in the UK anyway!)
aylons|3 years ago
Amazon has a bad process for these cases and seems not interested in fixing it.
kotaKat|3 years ago
Worst off you email jeff@ or jassy@ and some executive assistant eventually picks it up.
_raoulcousins|3 years ago
BlueTemplar|3 years ago
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/lawsuit-amazon-s...
sn_master|3 years ago
wdb|3 years ago
I bought an iPhone 14 a while back and they 'lost' the first two times. Third attempt it finally arrived but they appeared to use a different delivery service
Alex3917|3 years ago
nulbyte|3 years ago
In the U.S., it is illegal for a retailer to send an unsolicited item and demand payment. This is not that case; you requested an item, they just sent the wrong one.
https://legalbeagle.com/13357033-law-regarding-receiving-a-s...
6LLvveMx2koXfwn|3 years ago
anotherman554|3 years ago
Here's a link for the U.S. state of Georgia but I would expect it to be the same in any state:
"When you receive promotional merchandise that you did not order, you have the right to keep it as a free gift. ..It is a different matter if the mailing you received was due to a mistake by the company. In these circumstances, Georgia law regarding “unjust enrichment” obligates you to return the item paid for by another customer. The company, however, will have to pay postage and handling or make arrangements to pick it up."
https://consumer.georgia.gov/consumer-topics/unordered-merch...
AzzieElbab|3 years ago
kleiba|3 years ago
danuker|3 years ago
martin_a|3 years ago
Amazon is being flooded with the cheapest of the cheapest stuff from China and alike. Either with ripoffs of well-known products or just 25 items which look the same but are from different "brands". Finding "good stuff" for a topic you don't know about is getting harder and harder.
Those items also aren't cheap though, I've found better quality items at a local store for nearly the same price. Lazyness just made me buy it quickly on Amazon, because I thought it was the easiest (as in "cheapest + fastest") way.
You also don't whether those items are good after all. Reviews are 50/50 mixed with people who were paid by the manufacturer for a positive review or by competitors who want to make a product look bad. My personal favorite for the last time probably was a "is this any good?" question where somebody responded with "I've made you a quick video" and posted a hiqh quality, advertisement video. These reviews and answers are so blatantly fake but there's no way to report them. Amazon doesn't care after all, too. So, the trust is gone.
Ok, but we'll receive the items quick and be able to judge them by ourselves then? No. Prime regularly takes 3-5 working days for me now. I don't know what thei problems is, but does anybody remember the times when you received a month of Prime for free if your item was not delivered on time? That's long gone.
Prime, at this point, is just "free shipping", nothing more.
paywallasinbeer|3 years ago
donatj|3 years ago
bigcloud1299|3 years ago
dncornholio|3 years ago
digitalcancer|3 years ago
2) by checking returns before reselling them.
Easy-peasy.
chrisgd|3 years ago
greedo|3 years ago
LatteLazy|3 years ago
[deleted]
jacquesm|3 years ago
Keep in mind that companies the size of Amazon are sensitive to their reputation and to statistics and as along as you are an isolated case they will not change their processes or attitude but there is a lot of strength in numbers.
prepend|3 years ago
Amazon is a pretty systematic company with support scripts out the wazoo. Their scripts don’t include a method for a customer who got a $690 fake part.
That’s the noteworthy part. There’s likely many other similar incidents that aren’t reported.
This is also notable that Amazon went decades without such shitty processes, so now they are starting to crumble and decay.
phpisthebest|3 years ago
and it seem consumers are starting to factor that in, I saw reports that Walmart did better this year in sales volume for Black Friday then Amazon, combined with them laying off mass numbers of people we may be seeing Amazon fall from "king of retail"
How many others are there out there that can not get the news media to cover their story that are just out the money? This type of fraud, and other types of counterfeits are wide spread problems for Amazon they continue to not address, and will not address unless it starts impacting their sales. In order for it to impact their sales people have to start shopping elsewhere
yourapostasy|3 years ago
It is entirely different when the commingling fraud's liability is shifted to the consumer. In this case, the consumer hopefully paid by credit card and the card issuing company dings Amazon in a dispute. But I now know that if anyone or I ever get the same static from Amazon about a purchase, my advice will be to go straight to the card issuer and register a disputed charge instead of letting Amazon run out the clock on the allowed dispute period.
unknown|3 years ago
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INTPenis|3 years ago
I remember buying a Google Nexus phone way back, having it delivered to my home. Only to find an empty box, someone had stolen it in transit.
All I did was report the theft to the police so I got a case number, then sent the case number to the vendor and a new phone was in my hands within a week. That's how socialist sweden works.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
culopatin|3 years ago
fmajid|3 years ago
Always buy electronics from a reputable retailer like B&H Photo or Target. Amazon or NewEgg are not trustworthy.
wccrawford|3 years ago
When dealing with things shipped directly from the seller, you're going to have to deal with them directly for returns. I almost never buy like this because I like having Amazon's return policy to fall back on. If they start denying me, I'll definitely start looking for another store to buy from that has a better policy.
walt_grace_1967|3 years ago
Source (German): https://www.mydealz.de/diskussion/betrug-bei-amazon-2012851
pronlover723|3 years ago
https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/business-gui...
Search for "unordered merchandise" on that page. Also see "Substitutions"
As I said, I am not a lawyer, but I've always took that to mean if I order X and receive Y then I received Y for free. The company that sent me Y still owes me X and I have zero obligation to return Y. I never asked for Y, it's unordered merchandise.
So, if I ordered a PS5 and the send me a PS4 I get to keep the PS4, they still owe me a PS5. I ordered a 256gig iPhone and they send me a 128gig iPhone they still owe me a 256gig iPhone and the 128gig iPhone is mine to keep.
Now of course if I don't return the item, at their expense, they may refuse to do business with me in the future but at least as far as I can tell the wrong item is not what I ordered, therefore it is an unordered item. They still have the obligation to provide the item ordered or refund the money, and I have zero obligaton to return the unordered item.
brazzy|3 years ago
I am also not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure it does not apply when you do order something and there is just a mistake about the details.