When I was growing up you never posted your photo online where strangers could see it.
Earlier than that, it was also considered proper etiquette to ask before taking someone's photo.
There's been a huge culture shift and some of the outcomes are disheartening but quite predictable.
...little recourse other than to continuously report fake profiles across social media platforms
If they don't take down your fraudulent likeness or their efforts toward that end are a joke, hire a lawyer and put them in touch with the owners of the site.
> When I was growing up you never posted your photo online where strangers could see it.
I have _never_ uploaded my photo "online" voluntarily, but still it was common to put your photo in many places that were easily reachable by the common public. My school published a yearbook with my photo, for example.
Many journal papers I've published had my photo attached, starting at least from the 90s.
Some of these have been digitized and thus my photo is easily reachable for anyone who searches for my full name, without me ever voluntarily uploading it "online".
> Earlier than that, it was also considered proper etiquette to ask before taking someone's photo.
This much is still true, or can you imagine going around randomly flashing people with your phone on the street?
Actually I think this has improved over time. I'm far from a celebrity, but my photo is on the press -- and they never asked for permission. Nowadays, they do.
Considering how good face recognition is these days it would be nice to have legislation in place that you have to give explicit consent to any website in order to use your image. Govt can crawl the web and block websites from the countries ISP that don't comply. Hard to see another automated solution for this problem
I hire a lawyer, they submit a takedown request to FB or TikTok or wherever else they’re using my identity, now what?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if someone lives across the world and is doing all this impersonation online, what legal recourse does a lawyer have access to? Drag them to The Hague?
I’ve been in cases before where someone in a different continent is trying to impersonate or sink you, and I can say in my experience there’s little a Canadian lawyer could have done.
>When I was growing up you never posted your photo online where strangers could see it.
When was that? For those over 40, when they grew up there was no "online".
And if one was a kid or teenager growing up the the mid to late nineties, people had personal websites and online photos of themselves up regularly, and it wasn't considered much.
You didn't have regular snaps of your life, or pictures of the food you ate, like later, but you could well have your picture and nobody would consider it strange. Heck, even university professors and professionals of all kinds had personal and business pages with their photos on...
Lets face it. The "pretty girl profile" strategy works on a wide enough fraction of men that with probability close to 1 you can establish a legit connection to at least a few legit people at the company. Once you get that far, you can start getting recommendations for other people you "might know" and have enough of an "in" to get a glimpse at the entire org chart of the place. From there your a short jump away from being added to internal slack channels and whatever.
Not that I've ever done this. I always respect and obey the computer fraud and abuse act of 1986 vis a vis the section on unauthorized access to a computer system.
> Two, they look more like models than software engineers. Completely bullshit.
Can I push back against this? It’s toxic as fuck. Being a woman in tech blows. You can’t be pretty or you’re considered incompetent and shallow. You can’t be ugly or you’re treated poorly for that.
It’s a loose-loose.
What does a software engineer look like to you, then?
Those are just the auditors; the audit firms send charismatic and attractive people around so that the people whose work they're checking will let their guard down.
You mean female recruiters? For some reason, all the female recruiters I know (on Linkedin) are rather attractive. Maybe there is some logic behind it.
Even when the ruse is revealed, many victims are unwilling to let go. The truth triggers an emotional whiplash—the promise of a soulmate, a new, fulfilling life, and mutual trust is suddenly lost, leaving the intense feelings of love behind. Once found, the real man in the photos becomes a surrogate for the fantasy. “Some of them would reach out to me and [say], ‘Now that I know what the real person is like, are you still single?’” Victor said. “‘Can I meet you? Can I FaceTime you?’”
Loneliness is a bad relationship advisor it seems. It's like going to the supermarket with an empty stomach: you end up loading your cart with a lot of crap.
Btw, these scams are a worldwide trend. The wildest case I've read was about a Japanese lady scammed by a "Russian astronaut" seeking $ to pay his "landing fees" for returning to earth to meet her [1]. I've also read in local Greek news for >1 cases of ladies getting scammed by "US soldiers/officers", who at some point claim to be stranded in their deployment and ask for $ so they can travel to meet them in Greece.
>even after he convinced them that they had been scammed, they sometimes wanted to strike up a friendship with him. “I can’t even tell you. I would spend an hour on the phone sometimes talking to these women
The article mentions Tindler Swindler, and I can vouch - it's a great film. It is an absolute puzzle at first, cause the man spares no money to trigger a Cinderella in the victims: real charter jet, real high-class hotel, real flowers and gifts. And she has 0 at her bank account - what the man that can burn more money in a day that she makes in a year may potentially want from a poor girl, financially? Then the puzzle is solved (but I will not spoil here).
The film moves slowly and shows how the girls were hooked. And you can clearly see that they have no defense. Absolutely no defense, except to kill Cinderella inside herself, and before the fact at that.
But is it possible or correct to tell a girl "You should never date higher than your own status (whatever it is)"?
It shouldn't be surprising that the ~50% of the population that is stereotyped over centuries as having an unhealthy relationship with "being wrong in a relationship" and "not letting things go" makes good on that stereotype frequently enough to be worth an anecdote in a Vice article.
I rewatched the movie 'Jabberwocky' recently, which has as one of the comedic story elements one or more characters that are stuck in their own particular romantic view of the world.
As a tech guy, I would write some web pages with my image and textual explanations of the scam, then SEO optimise them for reverse image search. Hypothetically, of course, since I will never need to do it for myself as I am definitely not handsome enough.
I wonder why the guys didn't want their faces in the article? That way any reverse image lookup could find the story, the victims would know without getting in touch with the guys, and the scammers would move on to other guys' faces. That would solve the problem for those guys at least!
> “‘You shouldn’t have anything on social media. People are using your pictures.’ And I’m like, ‘Excuse me. I’m not gonna move to a deserted island or live my life as a monk. That’s just not gonna happen.’”
Not posting pictures of yourself online seems to be a pretty reasonable, sensible preventative measure for anyone. I don’t (to my knowledge) have pictures of myself floating around social media, and I don’t consider myself to be “living my life as a monk.”
I don't reckon the intended meaning is that it is literally impossible, but that it is an unfair and likely ineffective way to prevent romance scamming. His visage is used because they have already farmed the pictures, probably because there were quite a few available so enough to titrate them out over several weeks. So it doesn't really make sense that he now has the duty to remove his online presence, which is important to many people's expression of themselves. In fact, the ability to find him online probably has ended a number of these scams and prevented the women from losing even more money.
Not really since anyone else can post a picture of you. Work dos, nights out, even incidental picture of you in someone elses tourist photo. Maybe you wont be mentioned by name in the photo but maybe you will.
Other than for a new driver's license and a passport, I haven't even taken a picture of myself since 2014. I do some fantasy cosplay, though, so have had pictures taken of me from that, though I'm not sure many would recognize me.
> But having a gay guy have a wide following of women in love with him is hilarious
Women loved Rock Hudson. I think there are a number of gay women stars that are quite popular with men.
Social media is very weird. People can have entire friendships, romances, and work relationships, without meeting the other person. I had a friend whose wife left him for an online relationship. She got to the other state, met the guy (it was not a scam), and then things didn't work out. By then, however, it was too late.
Best thing that could have happened to him. He's been happily married to another person for many years.
It doesn't surprise me. Especially among men over 40, on average gay men pay much more attention to their appearance, grooming, etc. than straight men, because men whether gay or straight tend to be more visually oriented than women and looks matter to the people they want to attract. Of course like any generalization there are many exceptions to this.
Interesting and telling indeed. A southern US accent is acceptable to portray as threatening (or unintelligent or otherwise villainous). I would say the Russian accent is similarly A-OK to use for such prejudice. Racial stereotyping is exempt from being considered hate speech, it seems, when the target is the Bad People™.
"Remember kids, discrimination is wrong, unless X" ~ practically every society in history believing they can determine X and would scoff at both their ancestors and predecessors.
Vice just having a little slip of the tongue and showing what's really up.
From a technical perspective why isn't this a solved problem?
Identity will always be a difficult problem, but being able to own your own face / likeness by demonstrating it should be technically possible right?
Forced visual "captchas" something like "please take a photo standing on one foot and your finger pointed at your nose"
Then once you own your likeness with "faceID" likeness similarity isn't it then easy to monitor the images uploaded to the profile or am I completely missing something?
So are the scammers already using deepfakes for this, or is that still to come? A video chat is already a pretty obvious thing to do in a long distance relationship, so it will be weird if they can't do it (building an orphanage in Africa is a pretty good excuse, but it won't last forever). If it's possible, they'll definitely want to be able to deepfake video chats.
I think about what I would do if I were in the situation of these men. If possible, I wouldn't engage with scam victims at all. This sounds impossible though because there are those situations where your workplace security team or relatives get involved. The scary thing is how this scam can happen anywhere there is a chat function, such as Words With Friends.
I've always got scammers trying to get to me on Twitter. Once, I went down the road a bit to see what would happen. So, so boring. No conversational skill, no chemistry, just whoever happened to be working the shift at the time. I did wonder if the girl in the pictures was associated with the gang somehow, or just a random victim, as in the article.
For me, the most fascinating part is about women refusing to accept they've been scammed or wanting a relationship with the men whose pictures were stolen, even though some of them are gay.
It is quite similar to cult followers like QAnon. They want to believe desperately on what is comforting discarding what is reasonable.
My Brazilian family of Bolsonaro supporters camping in front of barracks demanding a coup-d'etat is an example of it, similar to Republicans that believe in the Big Lie.
Most people love comforting and convenient lies and don't like uncomfortable truths.
There's a good Netflix documentary about Manti Te'o, the football player who famously got catfished while he was playing at Notre Dame. It made national news when his "girlfriend" passed away. He seemed to have a good upbringing, it's wild what gullible or desperate people can get sucked into.
[+] [-] rkagerer|3 years ago|reply
Earlier than that, it was also considered proper etiquette to ask before taking someone's photo.
There's been a huge culture shift and some of the outcomes are disheartening but quite predictable.
...little recourse other than to continuously report fake profiles across social media platforms
If they don't take down your fraudulent likeness or their efforts toward that end are a joke, hire a lawyer and put them in touch with the owners of the site.
[+] [-] AshamedCaptain|3 years ago|reply
I have _never_ uploaded my photo "online" voluntarily, but still it was common to put your photo in many places that were easily reachable by the common public. My school published a yearbook with my photo, for example. Many journal papers I've published had my photo attached, starting at least from the 90s.
Some of these have been digitized and thus my photo is easily reachable for anyone who searches for my full name, without me ever voluntarily uploading it "online".
> Earlier than that, it was also considered proper etiquette to ask before taking someone's photo.
This much is still true, or can you imagine going around randomly flashing people with your phone on the street?
Actually I think this has improved over time. I'm far from a celebrity, but my photo is on the press -- and they never asked for permission. Nowadays, they do.
[+] [-] jack_pp|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joenot443|3 years ago|reply
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if someone lives across the world and is doing all this impersonation online, what legal recourse does a lawyer have access to? Drag them to The Hague?
I’ve been in cases before where someone in a different continent is trying to impersonate or sink you, and I can say in my experience there’s little a Canadian lawyer could have done.
[+] [-] coldtea|3 years ago|reply
When was that? For those over 40, when they grew up there was no "online".
And if one was a kid or teenager growing up the the mid to late nineties, people had personal websites and online photos of themselves up regularly, and it wasn't considered much.
You didn't have regular snaps of your life, or pictures of the food you ate, like later, but you could well have your picture and nobody would consider it strange. Heck, even university professors and professionals of all kinds had personal and business pages with their photos on...
[+] [-] markus_zhang|3 years ago|reply
Why did I know they are fake?
One, I'm not handsome, neither do I work in those high status companies, why did they reach out to me?
Two, they look more like models than software engineers. Completely bullshit.
[+] [-] IIAOPSW|3 years ago|reply
Not that I've ever done this. I always respect and obey the computer fraud and abuse act of 1986 vis a vis the section on unauthorized access to a computer system.
[+] [-] teux|3 years ago|reply
Can I push back against this? It’s toxic as fuck. Being a woman in tech blows. You can’t be pretty or you’re considered incompetent and shallow. You can’t be ugly or you’re treated poorly for that.
It’s a loose-loose.
What does a software engineer look like to you, then?
[+] [-] dijit|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dehrmann|3 years ago|reply
I worked with someone (she was on the sales team) who looked like a model. Her mom was a model--go figure. So while unlikely, it does happen.
[+] [-] mbg721|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cwkoss|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dopidopHN|3 years ago|reply
She also really, really good at her job.
Her profile on LinkedIn looks like what you describe.
[+] [-] danwee|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] DoreenMichele|3 years ago|reply
Even when the ruse is revealed, many victims are unwilling to let go. The truth triggers an emotional whiplash—the promise of a soulmate, a new, fulfilling life, and mutual trust is suddenly lost, leaving the intense feelings of love behind. Once found, the real man in the photos becomes a surrogate for the fantasy. “Some of them would reach out to me and [say], ‘Now that I know what the real person is like, are you still single?’” Victor said. “‘Can I meet you? Can I FaceTime you?’”
SMH.
Time to retire Cinderella and similar stories.
[+] [-] m000|3 years ago|reply
Btw, these scams are a worldwide trend. The wildest case I've read was about a Japanese lady scammed by a "Russian astronaut" seeking $ to pay his "landing fees" for returning to earth to meet her [1]. I've also read in local Greek news for >1 cases of ladies getting scammed by "US soldiers/officers", who at some point claim to be stranded in their deployment and ask for $ so they can travel to meet them in Greece.
[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ad7vn/japan-romance-scam-ru...
[+] [-] MikePlacid|3 years ago|reply
also
>even after he convinced them that they had been scammed, they sometimes wanted to strike up a friendship with him. “I can’t even tell you. I would spend an hour on the phone sometimes talking to these women
So: "Sure. Here's my 900 number".
[+] [-] MikePlacid|3 years ago|reply
The article mentions Tindler Swindler, and I can vouch - it's a great film. It is an absolute puzzle at first, cause the man spares no money to trigger a Cinderella in the victims: real charter jet, real high-class hotel, real flowers and gifts. And she has 0 at her bank account - what the man that can burn more money in a day that she makes in a year may potentially want from a poor girl, financially? Then the puzzle is solved (but I will not spoil here).
The film moves slowly and shows how the girls were hooked. And you can clearly see that they have no defense. Absolutely no defense, except to kill Cinderella inside herself, and before the fact at that.
But is it possible or correct to tell a girl "You should never date higher than your own status (whatever it is)"?
[+] [-] jxdxbx|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|3 years ago|reply
It shouldn't be surprising that the ~50% of the population that is stereotyped over centuries as having an unhealthy relationship with "being wrong in a relationship" and "not letting things go" makes good on that stereotype frequently enough to be worth an anecdote in a Vice article.
[+] [-] itronitron|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] timrice|3 years ago|reply
I mean, I think I get why. But still, it's the first thing I want to see when I read a story like this.
[+] [-] robocat|3 years ago|reply
I wonder why the guys didn't want their faces in the article? That way any reverse image lookup could find the story, the victims would know without getting in touch with the guys, and the scammers would move on to other guys' faces. That would solve the problem for those guys at least!
[+] [-] RcouF1uZ4gsC|3 years ago|reply
My face will never ever be used for a romance scam.
[+] [-] ryandrake|3 years ago|reply
Not posting pictures of yourself online seems to be a pretty reasonable, sensible preventative measure for anyone. I don’t (to my knowledge) have pictures of myself floating around social media, and I don’t consider myself to be “living my life as a monk.”
[+] [-] kuhewa|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quickthrower2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nonameiguess|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imwillofficial|3 years ago|reply
But having a gay guy have a wide following of women in love with him is hilarious
[+] [-] ChrisMarshallNY|3 years ago|reply
Women loved Rock Hudson. I think there are a number of gay women stars that are quite popular with men.
Social media is very weird. People can have entire friendships, romances, and work relationships, without meeting the other person. I had a friend whose wife left him for an online relationship. She got to the other state, met the guy (it was not a scam), and then things didn't work out. By then, however, it was too late.
Best thing that could have happened to him. He's been happily married to another person for many years.
[+] [-] not2b|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RickJWagner|3 years ago|reply
What would you think if Vice had written:
"The male voice, tinged with a Black-sounding accent...."
"The male voice, tinged with an Asian-sounding accent...."
"The male voice, tinged with an Italian-sounding accent...."
Why of course you'd think "That publication is hate mongering! They're trying to subtly guide the reader to bad thoughts about their target!"
Which is exactly true.
[+] [-] NackerHughes|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BlargMcLarg|3 years ago|reply
Vice just having a little slip of the tongue and showing what's really up.
[+] [-] shawn-butler|3 years ago|reply
Identity will always be a difficult problem, but being able to own your own face / likeness by demonstrating it should be technically possible right?
Forced visual "captchas" something like "please take a photo standing on one foot and your finger pointed at your nose"
Then once you own your likeness with "faceID" likeness similarity isn't it then easy to monitor the images uploaded to the profile or am I completely missing something?
[+] [-] andrewflnr|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] layman51|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rendall|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jxdxbx|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diego_moita|3 years ago|reply
It is quite similar to cult followers like QAnon. They want to believe desperately on what is comforting discarding what is reasonable.
My Brazilian family of Bolsonaro supporters camping in front of barracks demanding a coup-d'etat is an example of it, similar to Republicans that believe in the Big Lie.
Most people love comforting and convenient lies and don't like uncomfortable truths.
[+] [-] maerF0x0|3 years ago|reply
You dont get engaged with or attempt to marry someone you've never met in person.
[+] [-] caseyohara|3 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manti_Te'o#Catfishing_incident
Untold: The Girlfriend Who Didn't Exist https://www.netflix.com/title/81580141
[+] [-] bryanlarsen|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] etchalon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]