[dxf]

>Why would governments push back, when this hole which has already been used will _always_ be available?

I'm not aware of a time when Apple pushed a software update (silently or otherwise) to defeat security for a user (or users). Can you provide a reference?

[bboygravity]

The entire precondition for being able to do that is that you're not aware of it. Ever.

[jodrellblank]

The parent comment said “hole which has already been used”, that’s a claim that Apple has actually done it, not only a speculation that they could. They are being asked to back up that claim.

[eduction]

With Apple's current lack of encryption on iCloud backups, we are very aware of government access because those files end up as evidence in court cases after being obtained by police and prosecutors.

If government were to compromise end to end encryption in the manner described above, it would either be visible when used to prosecute people, or invisible because it would never be used to prosecute people (but presumably for intelligence purposes). Even if it were used for intelligence purposes through the method above, which I don't think is at all established, it would still be a significant improvement over having data in a form that is actively used to prosecute people.

[tshaddox]

"You can't prove that they don't already do X, because X is by definition a secret action" is a pretty useless epistemology though. Every electronic device you've ever used could secretly have a cellular modem that can secretly download over-the-air firmware updates that alter its behavior to be maximally evil. You by definition can't prove that your coffee machine doesn't secretly have the ability to change its behavior to start connecting to the internet and DDOSing charities or something.

[Melatonic]

The thing that people always miss is that the damn SIM card is running its own little processor already. If the government really wants to read your shit they can probably just do some behind the scenes work with your mobile ISP and find a way to access your phones screen output or microphone data or something.

[lghh]

So there's no level of security that will ever be enough for anyone. The number of people who know the source for the current version of every piece of software, firmware, and hardware they use almost certainly approaches 0.

I don't know what people expect. These moves are good things and everyone is whatabouting situations that there is 0 evidence has ever happened or would ever happen. It's unfalsifiable, impractical, and honestly just annoying.

[smoldesu]

When they migrated Chinese iCloud data to domestic servers.

[shuckles]

Why is data residency law cool and progressive when the EU does it and Big Tech complies, but Bad and Dystopian when China does the same? Tim Cook has said on the record that iCloud is the same regardless of data center.

[ghostpepper]

You're saying there was a silent update pushed to Chinese iphones? Can you provide more details or a source on that?

[szundi]

US can always pass a bill or have one that enables them to covertly force apple to comply otherwise Tim goes to jail. Easy

[acdha]

You make this sound easy but look at how that worked for NSLs. They got a ton of pushback for that and there’s no way to keep that a secret for very long – especially since things either end up in court or involve foreign governments who won’t share the desire to keep things secret.

[bee_rider]

What do you mean, “can pass a bill?”

On some level the US could also pass a law that says every iPhone user will be summarily executed. That’s how sovereignty works. Is it a realistic concern? Probably not.

[tinus_hn]

Last time they tried that Apple caused a lot of hoopla and made the case go away. Not easy.

[acchow]

In the US, this is not easy.

[amelius]

It doesn't matter. You are missing the entire point about E2EE.

[parineum]

That's not the point. The point is that Apple hasn't closed the government out of Apple user's phones. The point of E2EE is to remove the power of the middleman to read the data but that middleman also has complete control over the device and the software running on it with remote root access.

Apple's ecosystem is, by default, design and necessity, insecure to Apple. Keys stored on an Apple device are insecure.

One can easily make a similar argument for Android/Google, however, a security conscious user could still take control over their device and install a more secure OS.