Url changed from https://archive.vn/6EXTd, which points to this. It's ok to post archive links in the comments, but please submit the original source as the story link.
"Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter."
One reason that sanctions haven't had an apparent immediate effect is that the Russian economy was already in a slow downward spiral. The Russian economy peaked in 2013 and has been going down hill since then. The Russian society has already been hardened by these 9 years of "hard times" and not to forget the much harder times in the 1990s.
Another reason is that Western companies stopped their sales in Russia while the West continues to buy natural gas from Russia. Short-term macroeconomic numbers will regard this as an improvement of Russia's trade balance even slightly boost their GDP.
> The Russian economy peaked in 2013 and has been going down hill since then
Do you have anything substantial to back this claim?
Cuz to me (actually living in Russia) it seems like exactly the opposite - the economy had been slowly decomposing up until the financial crisis of 2014, when the exchange rates had shifted so that roubles became cheaper.
Until then it was extremely hard to build a sustainable business in Russia, due to the fact that it was just cheaper to buy something from abroad and the only reliably sustainable industries were food production and unprocessed resources.
After 2014 - in my impression - quite a lot of entrepreneurs seem to have seized the opportunity of cheaper expenses, as I personally saw quite a lot of new businesses rising and blooming.
So I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly had peaked in Russian economy in 2013. Sales of unprocessed resources? This is hardly a success.
Also, I don't get why are trying to reduce all the complexities of real world economics to some single number. This just feels kinda blunt. Why specifically GDP? GDP doesn't tell you anything about sustainability and self-sufficiency of some economy. Hell, all it basically tells you is how much money had changed ownership over the observation period.
Why not PPP, for example? Cuz GDP number makes Russia look weak, but PPP makes it one of the world leaders, leaving behind GB, France and Italy? :P
Yeah, and consider the effect that it has on the rouble: with lots of sales (of mostly energy) but nowhere to spend that money the rouble is actually likely to appreciate rather than depreciate. I'm referring here to the premature celebration of the "death of the rouble", you may remember this narrative. This is still a bit obfuscated by the ongoing sale of the Russian foreign reserves (the ~50% that wasn't frozen). But generally speaking the rouble needn't decrease in value, despite the sanctions taking the intended effect.
If you're still unconvinced then look at the granddaddy of all deflations, the great depression. Caused by the freezing of trade it was (in most countries) experienced through the appreciation of the value of currency - deflation, rather than inflation.
It would be so fun to be in IT in Russia right now. Software and film piracy is now completely legal because, if they aren’t selling it, it’s not theft. I could put pirated Windows on every workstation with no fear…
> Meanwhile the domestic economy has been hit hard by a collapse in the workforce as millions have either fled or been drafted. Official figures show the workforce shrank by 600,000 in October alone, most likely some of the most qualified. That creates a long-term hit both to the demand and supply side of the economy.
While many have been drafted,“millions” is an exaggeration. Yes, Yerevan is full of Russians at the moment. But likely most are from IT, those who need to get payments from international clients. Doubt that its “millions” though.
It's millions[1] between the number the have been drafted and the number that have fled, and that's taking the Kremlin at their word about how many people they drafted.
Also Russia has a brewing demographics collapse, similar to what Japan is experiencing. This is going to royally fuck them for the next 50 years.
I think the Ukraine invasion might be the beginning of the end for Russia as we know it, I wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Russia break away going forward.
He drafted 300,000 in the partial mobilization. There were I believe three other call ups before then that didn’t quite reach into 100k range but were close. Also relatively comparable numbers have left Russia during the partial mobilization, so losing a million able workers from the workforce is not an unreasonable estimate.
The simplest version of the story is this: Russia has gained tremendously thanks to the unusually high price of oil. Should the price of oil fall back the average of the last 10 years, then Russia's situation will appear far more precarious.
Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s_oil_glut and eyeballing 1980-1990, it seems plausible that the Union had been doing OK with oil at USD 30 but became far more precarious indeed with oil under USD 20?
OPEC+ doesn't seem to be in the mood to replay the 1980s, though.
Call it what you want. Russia is switching from export to internal consumption. Getting something like 30 years mortgage on house, was unheard of until recently. If West can run quantitative easing for 15 years, why not Russia?
A country can QE forever, but this will not put food on the table or shoes on people's feet. If people want those things, they must either be produced or imported. QE doesn't help with either of those. Production is a physical act, not a monetary one.
And if you want to import from somewhere, then you need that nation's currency to do so. Which means that in turn you must have produced something to exchange for that currency.
Because that won't help them...Russia's is an "emerging economy" (or was before the war), basically all they do is selling commodities...but that's not the issue here, the issue is how it is governed...this country sold Alaska for $140 million and now are trying to get their hands on land the size of Washington for already 100k lost soldiers (and counting)...so historically a disaster of governance with the luck of its natural resources
> If West can run quantitative easing for 15 years
Who did that? US did 6 years starting in 2008 due to the Great Recession and less than 2 starting in 2020 in response to the unusually deep, if quite short, pandemic recession, and the latter of those, because it wasn’t tapered quickly enough for the circumstances, triggered the highest inflation seen in a long time.
> why not Russia?
Russia can do QE as long as it wants, but QE is just self-inflicted inflation. It is a band-aid for incipient deflation, which isn’t a problem Russia has.
> if West can run quantitative easing for 15 years, why not Russia?
Is it the West or specifically the US. United States can do this because of the dollar's role in global economy: essentially everyone else will be paying for it.
Obviously, Russia can't do that. But might you have had something else in mind, since you've said "West" and not specifically "the US"?
They're running out of things like missles and bombs though IIRC?
Why don't we honor the Budapest agreement and let the Ukrainians finish off Putin's regime with US made weapons if we are going to play word games about the difference between NATO and a firm and unambiguous promise to defend a nation if they give up their nuclear weapons?
The people of Russia don't seem to want this war, they are conscripted. (From what I've read from afar.)
It's time to stop letting totalitarians use people like pawns -- let them fight it out 1 on 1 like the thugs they are. I want to see Putin personally running up on Ukraine like it's the American civil war if he's such a history fan, rather than hiding in a spider hole like the rude little pedophile he is.
> The people of Russia don't seem to want this war, they are conscripted. (From what I've read from afar.)
My understanding of Russian politics is that it is primarily driven by apathy: the population will support what the government does, so long as it doesn't affect them. Russian mobilization is a violation of that tacit agreement, which is why it seems that mobilization is being targeted more at marginal groups with less political voice (e.g., ethnic minorities).
Because nukes. If Ukrainians push into Russia (which to be clear, they can’t for many other reasons aside from weapons), Russia would launch nukes and that could make the entirety of Europe uninhabitable for centuries.
As far as I'm aware, about 70% of Russians polled support the war effort.
I think it's a bad mistake to blame everything on Putin. Russians are not benighted victims of propaganda; they have access to western media and the internet (although maybe they have to use a VPN). I know that older Russians are more likely to support the war; and that the population is ageing.But it seems very unlikely that Russians will revolt, unseat Putin, and force a withdrawal.
It seems to me that Ukraine isn't fighting a dictator; it's fighting a nation. And I don't think Russia will concede, until it's defeated militarily. Russians seem to have strong nationalist and imperialist sentiments. So I reckon that if Putin wants to get kicked out, his best bet would be to end the war.
As people have remarked upthread, the sanctions haven't even fully kicked in yet. Even if they were lifted tomorrow, the effects would continue for a decade. If I were Ukraine, I'd prefer my neighbour to be a stable state; but I can't see it staying inside its borders while remaining stable. In particular, Russians definitely regard Crimea as part of Russia; it's their favourite holiday destination.
While I agree that there really aren't any winners in a war from a humanitarian perspective, it really doesn't feel here like we are losing.
I'm happy to pay a lot for electricity and gas if that means the Russian government will fall and their army will be reduced to shreds (although the gas prices right now are almost the same as they used to be before the war... )
Also to the US, this is an incredibly cheap (it's what, $50B this year?) way of bringing the Russian army to it's knees.
Imagine if during the cold war we'd have had people like you commenting this way out in the public. Not only would it have been a failure of intelligence but the venue would be shut down.
As a Ukrainian, good! This war should have a long cost to Russia. They are certainly causing long term damage to Ukraine by destroying Ukrainian culture where they can, using rape as a widespread war tactic, and relocating Ukrainian children to Russia “for their own good” (see any recent ISW report for details).
Having said that, the real thing that appears to have happened in this war is that Putin is a KGB stooge, not a military commander. He spent most of 2020 and 2021 in isolation due to concerns for COVID and I believe as a result further lost touch. He is fighting this war and setting up information space in Russia as if this was the USSR fighting Germany’s invasion in WWII, which is the war lore most citizens are familiar with. But obviously that isn’t the case as this is clearly a war of conquest, not defense of one’s own home land. Russian citizens and Putin have more or less struck a bargain that as long as his bullshit doesn’t affect them, he gets to remain in power. But clearly this isn’t the case anymore as military call ups and hard hit economy are having a very real effect on the citizens day to day lives. So the real question is whether this is what will eventually break Putin’a hold on Russia.
Another surprising aspect of this war has been the large community of military bloggers that has developed on Telegram. This nationalist group has an outsized influence on both the Russian overall view of the war and even on the Russian military command. They are often quite critical of the Russian MoD and sometimes of Putin, yet Putin has protected them from consequences of this rhetoric. It appears the Russian information space w.r.t. the war is split into thirds between the MoD communications, the federal news outlets, and the milbloggers and of the three the milbloggers have the most freedom to point out the many problems facing the Russian armed forces in Ukraine. Yet Putin protects them because of the three they are the only ones who genuinely are pushing for annexing what they call “so called ‘ukraine’” due to their strong nationalist beliefs. Basically they are the most ideologically aligned with Putin but also the most critical of his failures. The milbloggers often find cover by criticizing MoD officials and generals in the field instead of Putin himself, and it appears that Purim’s frequent staff shake ups have taken at least some cues from this group. I wonder if a Western information campaign could disrupt this critical component of the war effort.
Lastly, Putin’s main ace in the hole is that NATO is trying to invade Russia and Ukraine was the last stop on their way in. The boogieman of the West is so far enough to get at least some older Russians to believe in the war effort. I have relatives there that are convinced that the war atrocities being committed by Russian AF in Ukraine aren’t real and that it is all crisis actors in the TV and internet footage. But at the same time Putin is definitely showing that NATO could clearly crush the Russian armed forces, nukes aside. Russia apparently still relies on trains to conduct its warfare for example, a practice that went away at the end of the last century for most modernized militaries. Essentially the only thing left in Russia is nukes, oil, hunger, and an out of touch dictator who keeps making military mistakes.
>they are the only ones who genuinely are pushing for annexing what they call “so called ‘ukraine’” due to their strong nationalist beliefs. Basically they are the most ideologically aligned with Putin but also the most critical of his failures.
The only loud protest voices coming out of russia seem to be complaining about loses, poor soldier conditions, not killing Ukrainians fast enough etc. Even so called ru opposition turned out to be all in on helping russian soldiers (TV Rain). No anti war/regime protests to speak off, plenty anti mobilization ones tho.
This is disgusting apologism for Putin's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. No one forced Russia to attack Ukraine. No one forced them to target cities and civilian infrastructure. They are absolutely not victims.
Agree, can we have a better educated and sourced discussion instead of yours?
Your source makes huge overreaching claims by only citing McCain visiting Ukraine and Nuland expressing preference for new leadership to an ambassador.
> Sanctions only affects the people, not the governments, you just help develop an anti-western sentiment across the affected regions as well as hurting the life of innocent families
Bombing also affects people and hurts the life of innocent families.
By your logic bombing is a better option than sanctions, as it also affects governments as well. /s
> Sanctions only affects the people, not the governments,
Western sanctions have demonstrably prevented the Russians from obtaining equipment vital for their military-industrial complex. Right now there were supposed to be hundreds of Armatas and SU-57s, but all the Russians have are a dozen prototypes of each.
> Visiting the Maidan on December 5, she handed out cookies to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.
Handing out cookies to people demonstrating against a pro-Russian government! Yes, I can totally see how this is morally equivalent to cluster bombing maternity hospitals.
None of that would happen if Russia was willing to stay within their own borders. If Russia did nor invaded countries around them again and again, this war would not happened.
> The reality is that Russia is losing the economic war, just as it is losing the war on the battlefield. Real incomes in Russia are already estimated to be 10 per cent lower today than in 2014, when Putin first invaded Ukraine.
I imagine the average American is doing worse than that since then.
In 2014 USA, things for me and my peers were finally stabilizing after 5 years of financial crisis, housing busts, horrible job market, etc.
Inflation was low, I'd finally found a fair employer at a decent salary, had bought a late model car (3 year old Acura) for about $25K, and my investments had recovered and were now growing again in the stock market. Housing was still modestly priced after the bubble crash, interest rates were low for buyers, but rent prices were doable, with plenty of inventory, too, for those not yet ready to buy.
And there were dozens of 2nd and 3rd tier cities in which any standard worker would be able to move to and likely obtain the "American Dream" of home ownership, a couple cars, etc.
Let's compare that to now:
My salary has grown by about 25% in absolute dollars (2-3% corporate raises don't add up so quickly). Meanwhile, I still own my 2010 car, and it would cost about $40K today to replace it with a similarly low-miled used one, or $50K+ if new. That's if I could even get one since it seems there is now a perpetual "chip shortage."
The same apartment I rented in 2014 would cost at least 50% more now, though probably closer to double with all the extra fees. The same starter homes I looked at then are double in absolute dollars, and at current 7%+ interest rates, might be closer to 3x as expensive per monthly payment. And this isn't just in places like NYC or Bay Area or Miami Beach. Once "cheap" cities like Phoenix and Nashville are now just as expensive, relative to salaries, as the over-crowded and desirable coastal areas were last generation.
Everything else is way MORE expensive, especially food. I eat out less. Food quality is generally lower or smaller portioned.
I take less vacations as airfare seems to have doubled in price in the last 5 years. And let's not even get into health insurance, which has also doubled in price since 2014 (I now have a $3K deductible with the same premium costs as before, thanks to Obamacare).
My retirement savings have lost over 1/3 of their value in the last year.
So Russians should know that it's not just them suffering. Most of us in the west have taken a 10% hit to standard of living in just the last 3 years, IMO.
Do not ever forget what was promised: Russia in rubble in two weeks from sanctions and Russia out of missiles in two weeks. This was the "negotiated" social contract upon which quality of life in other parts of Europe was thrown into a dog shit trash fire. These kinds of articles are just not-so subtle cover for the once again failure of leaders here, and moving the goalposts and rewriting of history.
No one said any such thing in any credible forum. Sanctions were the lever that was available. Quality of life in Europe was not thrown into a "dog shit trash fire", whatever that is supposed to be. Claims Germans would "freeze in the dark", expressed in less credible forums (e.g. here), proved false.
Do you have sources for those claims? I don't remember hearing either - my recollection is that there were warnings that sanctions would have some effect but take a long time to work, and the Russian economy would be supported by China and India, among others.
[+] [-] dang|3 years ago|reply
"Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] keewee7|3 years ago|reply
Another reason is that Western companies stopped their sales in Russia while the West continues to buy natural gas from Russia. Short-term macroeconomic numbers will regard this as an improvement of Russia's trade balance even slightly boost their GDP.
[+] [-] foverzar|3 years ago|reply
Do you have anything substantial to back this claim?
Cuz to me (actually living in Russia) it seems like exactly the opposite - the economy had been slowly decomposing up until the financial crisis of 2014, when the exchange rates had shifted so that roubles became cheaper.
Until then it was extremely hard to build a sustainable business in Russia, due to the fact that it was just cheaper to buy something from abroad and the only reliably sustainable industries were food production and unprocessed resources.
After 2014 - in my impression - quite a lot of entrepreneurs seem to have seized the opportunity of cheaper expenses, as I personally saw quite a lot of new businesses rising and blooming.
So I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly had peaked in Russian economy in 2013. Sales of unprocessed resources? This is hardly a success.
Also, I don't get why are trying to reduce all the complexities of real world economics to some single number. This just feels kinda blunt. Why specifically GDP? GDP doesn't tell you anything about sustainability and self-sufficiency of some economy. Hell, all it basically tells you is how much money had changed ownership over the observation period. Why not PPP, for example? Cuz GDP number makes Russia look weak, but PPP makes it one of the world leaders, leaving behind GB, France and Italy? :P
[+] [-] H8crilA|3 years ago|reply
If you're still unconvinced then look at the granddaddy of all deflations, the great depression. Caused by the freezing of trade it was (in most countries) experienced through the appreciation of the value of currency - deflation, rather than inflation.
[+] [-] gjsman-1000|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DieAgainAli|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] f6v|3 years ago|reply
While many have been drafted,“millions” is an exaggeration. Yes, Yerevan is full of Russians at the moment. But likely most are from IT, those who need to get payments from international clients. Doubt that its “millions” though.
[+] [-] eloff|3 years ago|reply
Also Russia has a brewing demographics collapse, similar to what Japan is experiencing. This is going to royally fuck them for the next 50 years.
I think the Ukraine invasion might be the beginning of the end for Russia as we know it, I wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Russia break away going forward.
[1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/25/russia-uzbekistan-kyrgy...
[+] [-] IgorPartola|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lkrubner|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 082349872349872|3 years ago|reply
OPEC+ doesn't seem to be in the mood to replay the 1980s, though.
[+] [-] throw903290|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nifty3929|3 years ago|reply
A country can QE forever, but this will not put food on the table or shoes on people's feet. If people want those things, they must either be produced or imported. QE doesn't help with either of those. Production is a physical act, not a monetary one.
And if you want to import from somewhere, then you need that nation's currency to do so. Which means that in turn you must have produced something to exchange for that currency.
[+] [-] pestatije|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonwriter|3 years ago|reply
Who did that? US did 6 years starting in 2008 due to the Great Recession and less than 2 starting in 2020 in response to the unusually deep, if quite short, pandemic recession, and the latter of those, because it wasn’t tapered quickly enough for the circumstances, triggered the highest inflation seen in a long time.
> why not Russia?
Russia can do QE as long as it wants, but QE is just self-inflicted inflation. It is a band-aid for incipient deflation, which isn’t a problem Russia has.
[+] [-] kilroy123|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foverzar|3 years ago|reply
Is it the West or specifically the US. United States can do this because of the dollar's role in global economy: essentially everyone else will be paying for it.
Obviously, Russia can't do that. But might you have had something else in mind, since you've said "West" and not specifically "the US"?
[+] [-] oneoff786|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] popilewiz|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] greggarious|3 years ago|reply
Why don't we honor the Budapest agreement and let the Ukrainians finish off Putin's regime with US made weapons if we are going to play word games about the difference between NATO and a firm and unambiguous promise to defend a nation if they give up their nuclear weapons?
The people of Russia don't seem to want this war, they are conscripted. (From what I've read from afar.)
It's time to stop letting totalitarians use people like pawns -- let them fight it out 1 on 1 like the thugs they are. I want to see Putin personally running up on Ukraine like it's the American civil war if he's such a history fan, rather than hiding in a spider hole like the rude little pedophile he is.
[+] [-] rasz|3 years ago|reply
People in russia want the war, want to win and conquer Ukraine, they just dont want to be conscripted personally.
[+] [-] jcranmer|3 years ago|reply
My understanding of Russian politics is that it is primarily driven by apathy: the population will support what the government does, so long as it doesn't affect them. Russian mobilization is a violation of that tacit agreement, which is why it seems that mobilization is being targeted more at marginal groups with less political voice (e.g., ethnic minorities).
[+] [-] IgorPartola|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xtian|3 years ago|reply
No they aren’t.
New York Times on 12/5: “Russian Cruise Missiles Were Made Just Months Ago Despite Sanctions”
[+] [-] denton-scratch|3 years ago|reply
I think it's a bad mistake to blame everything on Putin. Russians are not benighted victims of propaganda; they have access to western media and the internet (although maybe they have to use a VPN). I know that older Russians are more likely to support the war; and that the population is ageing.But it seems very unlikely that Russians will revolt, unseat Putin, and force a withdrawal.
It seems to me that Ukraine isn't fighting a dictator; it's fighting a nation. And I don't think Russia will concede, until it's defeated militarily. Russians seem to have strong nationalist and imperialist sentiments. So I reckon that if Putin wants to get kicked out, his best bet would be to end the war.
As people have remarked upthread, the sanctions haven't even fully kicked in yet. Even if they were lifted tomorrow, the effects would continue for a decade. If I were Ukraine, I'd prefer my neighbour to be a stable state; but I can't see it staying inside its borders while remaining stable. In particular, Russians definitely regard Crimea as part of Russia; it's their favourite holiday destination.
[+] [-] icare_1er|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] terryf|3 years ago|reply
While I agree that there really aren't any winners in a war from a humanitarian perspective, it really doesn't feel here like we are losing.
I'm happy to pay a lot for electricity and gas if that means the Russian government will fall and their army will be reduced to shreds (although the gas prices right now are almost the same as they used to be before the war... )
Also to the US, this is an incredibly cheap (it's what, $50B this year?) way of bringing the Russian army to it's knees.
[+] [-] clnq|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway29812|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yrgulation|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IgorPartola|3 years ago|reply
Having said that, the real thing that appears to have happened in this war is that Putin is a KGB stooge, not a military commander. He spent most of 2020 and 2021 in isolation due to concerns for COVID and I believe as a result further lost touch. He is fighting this war and setting up information space in Russia as if this was the USSR fighting Germany’s invasion in WWII, which is the war lore most citizens are familiar with. But obviously that isn’t the case as this is clearly a war of conquest, not defense of one’s own home land. Russian citizens and Putin have more or less struck a bargain that as long as his bullshit doesn’t affect them, he gets to remain in power. But clearly this isn’t the case anymore as military call ups and hard hit economy are having a very real effect on the citizens day to day lives. So the real question is whether this is what will eventually break Putin’a hold on Russia.
Another surprising aspect of this war has been the large community of military bloggers that has developed on Telegram. This nationalist group has an outsized influence on both the Russian overall view of the war and even on the Russian military command. They are often quite critical of the Russian MoD and sometimes of Putin, yet Putin has protected them from consequences of this rhetoric. It appears the Russian information space w.r.t. the war is split into thirds between the MoD communications, the federal news outlets, and the milbloggers and of the three the milbloggers have the most freedom to point out the many problems facing the Russian armed forces in Ukraine. Yet Putin protects them because of the three they are the only ones who genuinely are pushing for annexing what they call “so called ‘ukraine’” due to their strong nationalist beliefs. Basically they are the most ideologically aligned with Putin but also the most critical of his failures. The milbloggers often find cover by criticizing MoD officials and generals in the field instead of Putin himself, and it appears that Purim’s frequent staff shake ups have taken at least some cues from this group. I wonder if a Western information campaign could disrupt this critical component of the war effort.
Lastly, Putin’s main ace in the hole is that NATO is trying to invade Russia and Ukraine was the last stop on their way in. The boogieman of the West is so far enough to get at least some older Russians to believe in the war effort. I have relatives there that are convinced that the war atrocities being committed by Russian AF in Ukraine aren’t real and that it is all crisis actors in the TV and internet footage. But at the same time Putin is definitely showing that NATO could clearly crush the Russian armed forces, nukes aside. Russia apparently still relies on trains to conduct its warfare for example, a practice that went away at the end of the last century for most modernized militaries. Essentially the only thing left in Russia is nukes, oil, hunger, and an out of touch dictator who keeps making military mistakes.
[+] [-] qikInNdOutReply|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rasz|3 years ago|reply
The only loud protest voices coming out of russia seem to be complaining about loses, poor soldier conditions, not killing Ukrainians fast enough etc. Even so called ru opposition turned out to be all in on helping russian soldiers (TV Rain). No anti war/regime protests to speak off, plenty anti mobilization ones tho.
[+] [-] temptemptemp111|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] baybal2|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Kukumber|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] electrondood|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reducesuffering|3 years ago|reply
Your source makes huge overreaching claims by only citing McCain visiting Ukraine and Nuland expressing preference for new leadership to an ambassador.
[+] [-] Kukumber|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] lordfrito|3 years ago|reply
Bombing also affects people and hurts the life of innocent families.
By your logic bombing is a better option than sanctions, as it also affects governments as well. /s
[+] [-] mannerheim|3 years ago|reply
Western sanctions have demonstrably prevented the Russians from obtaining equipment vital for their military-industrial complex. Right now there were supposed to be hundreds of Armatas and SU-57s, but all the Russians have are a dozen prototypes of each.
[+] [-] rippercushions|3 years ago|reply
Handing out cookies to people demonstrating against a pro-Russian government! Yes, I can totally see how this is morally equivalent to cluster bombing maternity hospitals.
[+] [-] watwut|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] olabyne|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] user3939382|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] trasz2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hiram112|3 years ago|reply
I imagine the average American is doing worse than that since then.
In 2014 USA, things for me and my peers were finally stabilizing after 5 years of financial crisis, housing busts, horrible job market, etc.
Inflation was low, I'd finally found a fair employer at a decent salary, had bought a late model car (3 year old Acura) for about $25K, and my investments had recovered and were now growing again in the stock market. Housing was still modestly priced after the bubble crash, interest rates were low for buyers, but rent prices were doable, with plenty of inventory, too, for those not yet ready to buy.
And there were dozens of 2nd and 3rd tier cities in which any standard worker would be able to move to and likely obtain the "American Dream" of home ownership, a couple cars, etc.
Let's compare that to now:
My salary has grown by about 25% in absolute dollars (2-3% corporate raises don't add up so quickly). Meanwhile, I still own my 2010 car, and it would cost about $40K today to replace it with a similarly low-miled used one, or $50K+ if new. That's if I could even get one since it seems there is now a perpetual "chip shortage."
The same apartment I rented in 2014 would cost at least 50% more now, though probably closer to double with all the extra fees. The same starter homes I looked at then are double in absolute dollars, and at current 7%+ interest rates, might be closer to 3x as expensive per monthly payment. And this isn't just in places like NYC or Bay Area or Miami Beach. Once "cheap" cities like Phoenix and Nashville are now just as expensive, relative to salaries, as the over-crowded and desirable coastal areas were last generation.
Everything else is way MORE expensive, especially food. I eat out less. Food quality is generally lower or smaller portioned.
I take less vacations as airfare seems to have doubled in price in the last 5 years. And let's not even get into health insurance, which has also doubled in price since 2014 (I now have a $3K deductible with the same premium costs as before, thanks to Obamacare).
My retirement savings have lost over 1/3 of their value in the last year.
So Russians should know that it's not just them suffering. Most of us in the west have taken a 10% hit to standard of living in just the last 3 years, IMO.
[+] [-] oxff|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moloch-hai|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] djaychela|3 years ago|reply