It seems pretty obvious that a totalitarian petrostate, that bribed its way into using a global sports event as a massive PR push, doesn't care. What matters is whether we care that they don't care. What matters is whether we care that our sports institutions are massively corrupt.
Maybe it’s all a facade, but in the U.S. such shows of concern have gotten us effective workplace safety regulation. I don’t really care if the politicians’ concern is fake: the avoided deaths are real.
I don’t think that’s very unreasonable? In a analytical sense it’s bad of course, you don’t want workers to die if you can prevent it, but you cannot really expect me to care about every person that dies.
This person is just very blunt about stating as much, or maybe they don’t care in the first sense either, and they wouldn’t change anything for the better even if they had opportunity to.
I think a reasonable reading here is that workers dying is a systemic issue (also related to their overall conditions), not a series of just unfortunate accidents. We may expect the ruling class to do something to make people die less, and this would start with communicating that this is important matter.
OTOH caring in front of camera is of course a pretty trash signal about the rulers actually doing anything, especially if said rulers are authoritarian and all they have to care about is strong police. An elected politician in representative democracy has a little more incentive to be half-truthful at least some of the time.
You can be cynical all you want. These regime-type considerations are separate from whether we think the culture should value preserving life of people, and not saying "well it's just how things are for thousands of years, good thing I am hereditary elite".
I think the implication is that the death is emblematic of a larger issue in Qatar, migrant worker rights. And that is something a good leader should and should be expected to care about!
Yeah the countries which export the labour don't care themselves. None among India, Bangladesh, Pakistan have even issued any statement condemning the working conditions or the govt. of Qatar and that is when none of these countries are even playing in the world cup. The world certainly doesn't care. There are more people in this world than you can count in a lifetime, what matters if a few hundred poor people die. With the way things are, the west is also probably only condemning Qatar because of future plans of stealing their oil/natural gas resources than due to some poor people dying.
Think as you like but behave like others is the western approach. They would bemoan the loss and be very emotional about it while internally thinking the same thing this guy said. I prefer my leaders to be less fluff.
My body finally broke down on me. Three weeks of little sleep, high stress and lots of work can do that to you. What had been a cold over the last 10 days turned into something more severe on the night of the USA-Netherlands game, and I could feel my upper chest take on a new level of pressure and discomfort. I didn’t have Covid (I test regularly here), but I went into the medical clinic at the main media center today, and they said I probably have bronchitis. They gave me a course of antibiotics and some heavy-duty cough syrup, and I’m already feeling a bit better just a few hours later. But still: No bueno.
Honestly, as much as I’d like to lean into the conspiracy theories here, I think this post highlights the likely cause of his death. Won’t stop people from speculating though.
So the guy writing about people in Qatar being overworked and dying… is overworked and dies.
To some this means that the west and capitalism are just as bad as the “slavery” of the petrochemical state. To others this means that the petrochemical state probably gave him an accident.
The accusation is that the Qatari government killed Grant Wahl because of his reporting. But then again, Wahl's last post is all about how the Qatari government doesn't care about the worker's death and doesn't care if you know it ... so why would they kill an American journalist - with all the negatives that would bring down on them - over something they don't care about?
Condolences to his family and colleagues (covering this - already controversial - competition must now feel even more senseless for this teammates.)
In case you're worrying about jumping to conclusion and bordering on conspiracy theories (Quatar somehow poisoning him, or not treating him properly, because of his unfavorable coverage, substance abuse, etc...) : don't overthink it - I've already been shared the articles about why "it's (obviously) side-effects of the covid vaccine."
Which I suppose begs interesting questions about filter bubbles, journalism, how much speculation is enough, how much is too much, and how much "admitting we just don't know" is both wise (you avoid all the crazy theory) and foolish (when one of the crazy theory ends up being right in the end, khashogghi-style, you retrospectively looks sheepish.)
Whether its Qatar or Amazon, workers in the current climate are at a disadvantage; are still a (sub) human resource. We don't need more overseer empathy. We - i.e., not the exploiters - need be to much less tolerant of exploitation (whatever form it takes). Lip service "discomfort" isn't enough.
They posted it because he collapsed and died during extra time at the Argentina Netherlands match the day after he wrote it. Lots of theories and potential explanations for what actually happened as he’s been talking about not feeling well recently, but you can’t really blame people for being suspicious after what happened with SA and Khashoggi.
His brother posted a video saying he believes he was killed, but he was obviously and understandably in a really emotional state. To add to this, his brother is gay and Grant wore a rainbow shirt (as many other prominent journalist have done during this World Cup to protest the Qatari stance on LGBTQ rights) to a match and was told he couldn’t enter the stadium.
"Even a single preventable death on a job site is one too many. We are doubling down on safety precautions and training to prevent any further workplace hazards. While complete safety is impossible to achieve on a project of this scale, we are using our massive wealth to ensure our construction sites follow international best practices in this area. We value the lives and wellbeing of our workers and will take every measure possible to ensure they are safe while performing their jobs"
You know, the kind of thing you expect people to say in societies that value human life, and see migrant workers as humans, and not just cheap disposable robots.
How long do you think before the HN audience tips on this one? That your comment isn't at the bottom of the comments and grayed out shows there might be hope after all.
Soooo many people dying suddenly! As opposed to the good old days, when almost everyone knew well in advance when they were going to kick the bucket and entertained long monologues to their loved ones on their hospital bed before taking their last breath!
Yeah, I thought something was up with that so me and my friends did our own randomized controlled trial where some of us got the vax and some didn't. Luckily I was part of the latter group because, believe or not, the vaccinated ones all dropped like flies.
The result was pretty shocking, so I asked someone I know at the CDC and he basically admitted that The Global Elites (as he called them) ordered a mass-genocide and while he had some misgivings about it, a job is a job and what are you gonna do, y'know?
Anyway it's winter time and I wanted to protect myself and help build up herd immunity so I got the shot last week, so here's to hoping they updated it.
You don't care either. If you cared you wouldn't be dimissing the things Qatar has done as OK because others do them.
See you are presenting a logical fallacy - specifically the notion that "two wrongs make a right". Yes the US nonsense in Iraq was terrible, and a lot of people should be punished for it. How stupid do you think I am to try and pretend that it somehow makes Qatar a non-issue?
Facts, also don’t forget about Ukraine too. Or even American lives for that matter, eg astounding number of people dying of fentanyl, or the fact there are more teenagers homeless in LA than homeless people with mental health problems.
while I agree that Russia and the USA have done much worse than Qatar has ever done, I think people are more willing to be lenient to Russia and the USA on this because there’s some footballing history there. as more or less a marketing operation, Qatar have just turned up with a load of cash and built some stadiums in the desert, and then FIFA expects everyone to take it lying down
I genuinely think it’s more about football than politics, but the politics are a real issue too and they have a larger attack surface
Not surprising at all. mohammed bin salman personally ordered a journalist beheaded in the Istanbul consulate a few years ago. Why not poison a journalist at the World Cup?
royal families can commit genocide, and still have no legal financial or personal recourse.
To them, he was just a worker and workers are garbage in the Middle East.
Did Grant care about the incredible number of young people dying of fentanyl in USA? Did he care about the fact there are more teenagers homeless in LA than people with mental health problems?
That's a plausible take on the situation. I honestly don't see anything wrong with that. Hell, he's right.
No, this wouldn't fly in USA. If I was a CEO of an American company and one of my employees died, I would not react like that. But we're talking about a foreign country here.
[+] [-] capableweb|3 years ago|reply
> (CNN) Prominent American journalist Grant Wahl has died in Qatar after collapsing while covering the World Cup
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/09/football/grant-wahl-death-wor...
[+] [-] bjornsing|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] m12k|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] donatj|3 years ago|reply
Most would like have the decorum and PR experience to feign shock, but I doubt you’d get more than an empty “oh that’s terrible“ from most in power.
To me the fact that anyone would find this shocking is the most shocking part as it implies people are believing politicians facades.
[+] [-] zopa|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aeolun|3 years ago|reply
This person is just very blunt about stating as much, or maybe they don’t care in the first sense either, and they wouldn’t change anything for the better even if they had opportunity to.
[+] [-] stereolambda|3 years ago|reply
OTOH caring in front of camera is of course a pretty trash signal about the rulers actually doing anything, especially if said rulers are authoritarian and all they have to care about is strong police. An elected politician in representative democracy has a little more incentive to be half-truthful at least some of the time.
You can be cynical all you want. These regime-type considerations are separate from whether we think the culture should value preserving life of people, and not saying "well it's just how things are for thousands of years, good thing I am hereditary elite".
[+] [-] marstall|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shugarl|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CyberDildonics|3 years ago|reply
Not A workers death. 6,500 worker deaths. That's over double the number of people that died on 911.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...
These were healthy people that had their passports taken away from them and worked until they died and you're talking about a single death.
In 1931 5 people died building the empire state building.
https://www.reference.com/history-geography/many-people-died...
[+] [-] frontman1988|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] isthisthingon99|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tpmx|3 years ago|reply
My body finally broke down on me. Three weeks of little sleep, high stress and lots of work can do that to you. What had been a cold over the last 10 days turned into something more severe on the night of the USA-Netherlands game, and I could feel my upper chest take on a new level of pressure and discomfort. I didn’t have Covid (I test regularly here), but I went into the medical clinic at the main media center today, and they said I probably have bronchitis. They gave me a course of antibiotics and some heavy-duty cough syrup, and I’m already feeling a bit better just a few hours later. But still: No bueno.
[+] [-] HorizonXP|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ekaros|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] newaccount74|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jtbayly|3 years ago|reply
To some this means that the west and capitalism are just as bad as the “slavery” of the petrochemical state. To others this means that the petrochemical state probably gave him an accident.
I’m sure there are other interpretations, too.
[+] [-] kingofpandora|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Kim_Bruning|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spaceman_2020|3 years ago|reply
Wow. Truly astounding apathy.
[+] [-] somrand0|3 years ago|reply
"death is a natural part of life, whether you die of old age or you get murdered by too much work"
ah, them wise ruling elites.... (or more accurately, them wise ruling elites of people in Qatar)
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] phtrivier|3 years ago|reply
In case you're worrying about jumping to conclusion and bordering on conspiracy theories (Quatar somehow poisoning him, or not treating him properly, because of his unfavorable coverage, substance abuse, etc...) : don't overthink it - I've already been shared the articles about why "it's (obviously) side-effects of the covid vaccine."
Which I suppose begs interesting questions about filter bubbles, journalism, how much speculation is enough, how much is too much, and how much "admitting we just don't know" is both wise (you avoid all the crazy theory) and foolish (when one of the crazy theory ends up being right in the end, khashogghi-style, you retrospectively looks sheepish.)
[+] [-] chiefalchemist|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] simmerup|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yawnr|3 years ago|reply
His brother posted a video saying he believes he was killed, but he was obviously and understandably in a really emotional state. To add to this, his brother is gay and Grant wore a rainbow shirt (as many other prominent journalist have done during this World Cup to protest the Qatari stance on LGBTQ rights) to a match and was told he couldn’t enter the stadium.
[+] [-] popcalc|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tazjin|3 years ago|reply
What is he supposed to say instead?
[+] [-] m12k|3 years ago|reply
You know, the kind of thing you expect people to say in societies that value human life, and see migrant workers as humans, and not just cheap disposable robots.
[+] [-] lambooij|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] benevol|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] narrator|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AstixAndBelix|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patrickaljord|3 years ago|reply
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fjmqz0GXoAA9jg8?format=jpg&name=...
[+] [-] bestcoder69|3 years ago|reply
The result was pretty shocking, so I asked someone I know at the CDC and he basically admitted that The Global Elites (as he called them) ordered a mass-genocide and while he had some misgivings about it, a job is a job and what are you gonna do, y'know?
Anyway it's winter time and I wanted to protect myself and help build up herd immunity so I got the shot last week, so here's to hoping they updated it.
[+] [-] jacooper|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] sophacles|3 years ago|reply
See you are presenting a logical fallacy - specifically the notion that "two wrongs make a right". Yes the US nonsense in Iraq was terrible, and a lot of people should be punished for it. How stupid do you think I am to try and pretend that it somehow makes Qatar a non-issue?
[+] [-] nicodjimenez|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ethanbond|3 years ago|reply
Where exactly do you think that’ll get us?
[+] [-] permo-w|3 years ago|reply
I genuinely think it’s more about football than politics, but the politics are a real issue too and they have a larger attack surface
[+] [-] yetanotherforg|3 years ago|reply
royal families can commit genocide, and still have no legal financial or personal recourse.
To them, he was just a worker and workers are garbage in the Middle East.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] treme|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] upstarter|3 years ago|reply
‘Died suddenly’ will be Oxford's 2023 Word of the Year.
[+] [-] nicodjimenez|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] santoshalper|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JoeyBananas|3 years ago|reply
No, this wouldn't fly in USA. If I was a CEO of an American company and one of my employees died, I would not react like that. But we're talking about a foreign country here.