top | item 3394383

Launching the Kindle Fire was a mistake

128 points| andrewmunn | 14 years ago |plus.google.com | reply

92 comments

order
[+] chuinard|14 years ago|reply
I read the first few sentences of this and stopped when he said it was downright terrible. Having just received one for Christmas myself, I really have no idea where all the Fire hate is coming from. Sure, it's not an iPad, but it is absolutely a gap between my phone and my MacBook that I am now happy to have filled. Laying in bed watching Arrested Development, playing Angry Birds on a slightly larger screen, or browsing the web all work just fine. It also was neat that all the apps I got on the Amazon Appstore already sync'd directly to the device.

I'm also really impressed with how Amazon took the physical buttons (menu, back, and home) off the actual device and made them part of the UI by tapping a little arrow at the bottom of the screen.

Yes, the power button is misplaced, but overall I am very satisfied with this $199 tablet that I am finding myself using pretty often so far.

[+] phaus|14 years ago|reply
I've played around with most companies' flagship tablets, to include the iPad. With the exception of my windows 7 tablet, the kindle fire was the first tablet that I actually purchased. Overall I love it, but there are a couple of things that really hurt the experience.

The biggest issue for me would be that the kindle fire often doesn't respond to input very well. I often find myself having to press a button 2-5 times in order for it to register. I know I am hitting the button because the button animation seems to be working correctly. I hope that they finally manage to fix this issue with another update. This alone brings the device from 4.5 stars down to 3.5 in my opinion.

The only other issue I have is that magazine/comic books are being sold for the kindle fire as if they are actually readable. This is more of a complaint against magazine and comic book publishers who should have started optimizing their content for digital display years ago. I shouldn't have to manually zoom in every time I turn a page and then pan around. The print magazine industry is rapidly becoming unprofitable, so why aren't these companies busting their asses to create e-reader friendly versions of their products?

[+] alexholehouse|14 years ago|reply
Completely agree - I've found the battery outperforms the 8 hours advertised (with Wi-Fi off and lowish brightness, i.e. the kind of settings you're likely to have while travelling, which is presumably when battery would be most important).

Also the weight is such a non-issue - it's lighter than most hardback books, whereas I found trying to read off the iPad waaay more clunky (from a lying position).

[+] tghw|14 years ago|reply
Many of his main points are vacuous at best. "Adding insult to injury, it’s an extremely simple and ugly unlock-gesture, just the sweep of a mono-color bar from right to left." Since when is a function being simple a problem? And he's comparing it to a Windows phone, where the entire interface is based on "mono-color" tiles.

The Fire is a $200 tablet, and aside from a misplaced On/Off button (not sure how that got passed QA), the hardware you get for $200 is incredible. The software could use some work, there's no doubt about that. But here's the thing:

They can improve the software.

I don't love my Fire, but you can hardly say it is "downright terrible", especially when you consider the price tag.

[+] phillco|14 years ago|reply
> They can improve the software.

But not their first impressions.

I've heard this argument before (hell, even The Lean Startup advocates shipping a broken, backwards v1.0), but it's usually paired with meekness: grow slowly, so that by the time you reach a wide audience your quality is awesome and nobody's the wiser. Instead, Amazon's pushing the Fire 1.0 with everything they've got.

Shame, because Amazon probably could have pulled off the meekness strategy really well, too -- launch the Fire in December 2011 to a small number of hand-picked (Prime?) beta users, iterate, and launch the real thing in 2012.

[+] kristofferR|14 years ago|reply
My mother or any other normal non-geeky people in my family doesn't care whether the problem lies in software or hardware. They care about the experience.

The Kindle Fire experience is terrible right now. That terrible experience is what they'll remember and associate the brand with.

[+] zmanji|14 years ago|reply
I'm not going to purchase a device because the software might improve in the future. I'm going to purchase a device that has functional software from day 1. Otherwise every day that I have to use the terrible software until it is improved is another cost that I have to pay.
[+] lloeki|14 years ago|reply
> "Adding insult to injury, it’s an extremely simple and ugly unlock-gesture, just the sweep of a mono-color bar from right to left." Since when is a function being simple a problem?

The author is not arguing against the simplicity of the unlock gesture itself, he's arguing that the simplicity of the gesture makes its screwed-up-ness absolutely inexcusable. Or so I read it.

[+] davidw|14 years ago|reply
I love my Kindle, but the Fire is... ok. Part of what irritates me about it is that with some software fixes it could be a lot more. Having the Google apps for instance, would be a huge improvement. Hardware wise, a microphone would have made it into a convenient device for making Skype type calls.

My guess is that the next generation will be a lot better.

[+] budu3|14 years ago|reply
> it’s an extremely simple and ugly unlock-gesture, just the sweep of a mono-color bar from right to left

I often wondered why a tablet would need such an unlock gesture. It makes sense on a cellphone because you don't want to accidentally unlock while your phone is in your pocket but can't we come up with a different gesture for the tablet form factor?

[+] phaus|14 years ago|reply
I think you missed his point about the unlock animation. His complaint wasn't primarily that it was too simple. He was complaining that in spite of the animation's minimalistic design, it still lags. Personally it didn't bother me, but it is kind of silly that even the unlock animation causes choppiness on the Fire.
[+] rayiner|14 years ago|reply
> But here's the thing: They can improve the software.

Here is the other thing: the software is the only thing that matters. I can forgive an awkwardly placed on/of button, I hit it a couple of times a day. Lost touch events and the like, are an absolute deal breaker. I would never buy a car that regularly ignored throttle input or turns of the steering wheel, why would I buy a touch-interface device that regularly ignores touch events?

[+] brown9-2|14 years ago|reply
Isn't this gesture identical to the iPhone's, with the directions reversed?
[+] rokhayakebe|14 years ago|reply
I bought one. I love it. I CANNOT wait for a 8, 9 or 10 inch one because I will be the first one to get it (assuming it's still cheaper than the Ipad).

I have no idea what people are talking about when they say they are disappointed. Seriously how much hardware + software do you want for $199.

Last time I read a book and finished it was a few years ago. I just finished a 500 page book on the fire, and it has certainly helped a lot with note taking, going back to highlights etc...

Browsing the internet is just fine, although the video audio seems to be off sync for Youtube videos. Movies through Prime were just ok.

Sometimes it hangs, but it's not all that bad. You just turn it off, then on (really, you just press the button back to back. like 1.5 seconds).

I think most people were expecting a smaller Ipad. Well, come on.

[+] matwood|14 years ago|reply
How is it with reading PDFs? I read a lot of books on my iPhone without any problem, but PDFs just don't scale right. I'm starting think about getting some sort of tablet and good PDF handling is high on my requirements.
[+] extension|14 years ago|reply
Funny that anybody can think there is a first mover advantage in this market when tablets have been shipping and failing for about 30 years now, the idea itself is over 50 years old, and some directly related patents are over 100 years old!

The secret to Apple's success is obviously their zen-like patience and restraint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers

[+] freehunter|14 years ago|reply
Tablets could hardly be considered consumer appliances before the iPad. They're not even in the same league, and this is coming from someone who owns zero Apple hardware.
[+] yequalsx|14 years ago|reply
I almost hate the Fire. I have a Kindle Touch and I thought the interface between the two devices would at least be consistent.

In the Fire to bring up the menu when reading a book you tap the bottom of the screen. In the Touch you tap the top of the screen. In the Touch you can look up the definition of a word the same way you do on the Fire. However, on the Touch when the definition of a word comes up you can look up the definition of a word used in the definition of the word you just looked up the same way the original word's definition was obtained. You can't do that in the Fire.

Why don't both devices automatically sync? When I first turn on a device I sync. Sometimes when I open a book I have to sync again to get to the furthest read page. Why do I have to sync after syncing?

Why does the browser icon show up on the main page of the Fire every time I use the browser? I keep removing the icon from the main page. Shouldn't I only have to do this once?

Turning pages is a great pain in the Fire and the Touch. You tap the screen and a page turns. This is horrible because sometimes while holding the device I accidentally tap the screen without meaning to turn a page. The iPad has the swipe interface for turning a page. Apple got this spot on. Amazon should copy Apple in this regard.

The web browser on the Fire is horrible. It's slow and I can't get web base email to work properly on it. This is pathetic.

I could go on but the point is made. The Fire is an unpolished device. It's almost entirely pathetic. This is all just my opinion and others will have a different opinion but I would highly recommend getting an iPad instead of a Fire. Don't be lured by the low price of the Fire.

[+] jsankey|14 years ago|reply
The return rate will be high and Amazon will suffer for it.

The Fire currently has over 8000 reviews on Amazon with an average rating of 3.9. Over 5500 of those reviews give the device 4 or 5 stars. Something tells me the average Fire customer does not have such high expectations.

[+] phaus|14 years ago|reply
While they must be included for accuracy, I found that well over half of the 1-star reviews were written by people who knew that they wouldn't like the Kindle Fire, yet ordered one anyways. There were an awful lot of people who complained that it wasn't as nice as the iPad 2 that they explicitly stated they also own. What logical person buys a low-end tablet when they already have what is arguably the best tablet ever made?
[+] jrockway|14 years ago|reply
Companies need to stop copying Apple, because if they don't, every review will be tainted by why Apple did X better than they did. Apple might not have actually done X better, but they did it first, and people like what they already know. The comment about the unlock gesture is especially relevant; there is no need to stipe something across the screen to unlock a tablet. If people copy that, though, the reviews will inevitably compare it to Apple's implementation, and will like Apple's better. (Be it less lag, better color scheme, better font for "Slide to unlock", etc.) If they do something completely different, like a hardware switch, then everyone will be happy because it's the first time they've ever seen anything like that and the idea will be allowed to stand on its own merits.

The Fire is flawed from the start because it uses out of date software. If you are going to advertise something as Android, then people expect it to be good at Android. Look at Archos' Android tablets; dead because they kept it on 1.6 forever. (I will certainly never buy an Archos product again.) The solution is to not advertise it as having Android, even if you use Android behind the scenes. There are many Linux devices that don't claim to be Linux, and as a result, nobody ever cares that GHC 7.4 doesn't run on it; it's just a box that runs software that does stuff rather than being "a Linux box". (Hell, the original Kindle is a good example of this. Do you want an xterm on your Kindle? Nope! So you don't care that it doesn't have X11.)

Anyway, I guess I'm saying that the key to hardware design is expectation management. Be different so that you aren't compared to Apple. Underpromise so that you aren't compared to something you aren't.

[+] dr1z|14 years ago|reply
If you look at Amazon's own page for Kindle Fire, it does not list Android OS as a feature (with the exception of the Appstore but that predates Fire).
[+] coderdude|14 years ago|reply
Apple has been telling us the key to beating them all along: Think different.
[+] bd_at_rivenhill|14 years ago|reply
Who cares about the reviews, building cheap ripoffs of Apple products is now a time-honored route to success, just ask Bill Gates.
[+] wallflower|14 years ago|reply
I have a Kindle Fire. I actually like the fact that it is an imperfect product - lags in switching tabs, occasional lags so long in loading websites that you wonder if your wifi has gone dialup, the dang "Carousel". I do like the reading experience and pocket-ability - it fits into a winter jacket easily - though you need to weigh down your opposite pocket to avoid lopsided-ness.

The Kindle Fire is the first credible competitor to the iPad. Android tablets running Honeycomb - it hurts my head - the UI - it is like a Klingon control panel. Definitely not intuitive. The Kindle Fire - it is a compromise - a custom, dumbed-down ("The Carousel") UI on the iceberg of Android 2.x.

For me, it is a tangible reminder that products aren't all perfect like the iPad. There is no such thing as immaculate conception - the Kindle Fire will get better over time. Comparing it to the iPad is like comparing NYC to... any other city except London[1]. It's a different metro, not as sophisticated - it's for those who just want a tablet device that is relatively affordable.

The iPad has set the bar - it is the first computer for many under the age of six. The Kindle Fire is no such thing - it is, as a review said best, a Kindle with benefits.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

[+] alexholehouse|14 years ago|reply
For the record, in terms of metros for ease of use I'd have to say Paris > NYC > London (having lived in all three cities).
[+] miles_matthias|14 years ago|reply
I couldn't agree with this more. My grandma recently bought one and I spend all of Christmas getting it set up for her and teaching her. She's gotten really frustrated and would probably return it if it hadn't been free from her company.

This part especially is what I agree with:

"Yet, the drive to quickly release a product in a hot field is almost irresistible. Amazon believes growing marketshare is more important than the reputation of their tablet. This is wrong. I believe consumer tolerance for poor products is at an all time low, thanks to ten years of amazing Apple products. Unfortunately, the idea that first movers win is widely believed across the tech industry."

Version 1.0 should be magical.

I do need to correct the author on one point though - I did find a native email client on it.

[+] potatolicious|14 years ago|reply
> "I do need to correct the author on one point though - I did find a native email client on it."

Which is nigh unusable. I set up my email account on it and went to bed with it at 70% charge. I woke up with the Kindle Fire at 20%. It drained 50% in about 8-9 hours doing nothing more than email.

Yes, idle email checking uses power, but I have never seen it that bad on any device. The battery is no slouch either based on normal reading/video drain rates.

My Fire's battery has been dry for 4 weeks and counting now. I have no felt even the slightest urge to recharge it and use it. Considering this is a low-margin device designed to hook people onto Amazon's profitable content pipeline, this is an utter and abject failure. Others I know who got the Fire at launch have all either returned it, or their Fires have a fate similar to mine - forgotten in a drawer.

[+] esrauch|14 years ago|reply
> She's gotten really frustrated and would probably return it if it hadn't been free from her company.

Is this actually a problem with the Fire though, or would she react the same way to an iPad?

[+] garrickvanburen|14 years ago|reply
I'm starting to think there must be 2 products on the market right now called the 'Amazon Kindle Fire' - this very enjoyable one I picked up and this other one that all these blog posts are complaining about.
[+] IznastY|14 years ago|reply
Having just received one for Christmas I too find the Kindle Fire quite enjoyable. Yes it could use some polishing, could possibly be the fact that it's running an older version of Android.
[+] lnanek|14 years ago|reply
It's cheap and pretty much does the job from what I hear. Obviously the author's and his family's experience was a bit worse than most people report. But honestely, returning something is a huge pain in the ass. It requires work and backing out of a decision. Very few people ever bother returning things. Just like some percentage of people never mail in rebates.

With apps, you can offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee, it will increase conversion, and few people will ever take you up on it. It sucks that it means a business doesn't have to please everyone completely, but the business is in it for the money anyway, not pleasing everyone. I think, from a business perspective, it was right to launch and capture the holiday sales. Subsequent versions will get better. I have a first generation Kindle and later versions blow it away. My version has freaking black text on a dark gray background, worse than cheap newspaper.

[+] ballstothewalls|14 years ago|reply
I believe that their has been an update to the Fire that seems to have alleviated most of this guys problems.

The kindle that I received for Christmas has been a joy to use :)

[+] balloot|14 years ago|reply
My problem with this post is the assumption that the Kindle Fire would have blown away the iPad with a few more months' development time.

Lots have companies have tried to beat the iPhone/iPad. Nobody has even come close. This guy's whole worldview centers around the fact that since he worked at Amazon, all their engineers are clearly the best. And if that engineering team releases a bad product it's clearly a reflection on someone other than the engineering team.

What is far more likely is that Amazon's engineers weren't going to approach the iPad no matter how hard they tried or how long they worked. It's nothing to be ashamed of - they have lots of great company in this regard.

[+] btipling|14 years ago|reply
Some people think "I didn't like it" means nobody should like it. I like my kindle fire, although I think I'd prefer a Ice Cream tablet next year. I like widgets and power and awesomeness. But just because I think I might like something else better doesn't mean I'm going to jump on a soap box.
[+] acknickulous|14 years ago|reply
I personally love the Kindle Fire. I'm an iPad user, but I bought a Fire to check it out. It's surprisingly powerful--and the 7 inch form factor is great for games.

But yeah--the interface is fiddly. I think the only reason why I get so much use out of my Fire is because I'm used to dealing with buggy products. I'd never give one to my parents. Maybe 2.0.

Oh--and the browser is HORRIBLE. Despite Amazon's crowing about their new tech--it seems like Skyfire repackaged. And super hard to use.

[+] martincmartin|14 years ago|reply
Consumers are snapping the Fire up because it’s $200, but they expect a tablet. Not a black brick that plays movies.

Some do. But a lot expect an e-reader that also plays movies. That's how Amazon is marketing it: just one of their many kindle devices. My mother-in-law has a Kindle and reads a lot of books, and I keep trying to tell her that it's more similar to an iPad than her Kindle, but I don't think it sinks in because, well, it's a Kindle.

[+] easp|14 years ago|reply
I'm curious as to how this positioning will play out. On the one hand, its a better Kindle because it can play movies, etc, but its also the most expensive, heaviest Kindle with the shortest battery life and a worse screen for reading.
[+] WalterBright|14 years ago|reply
I have a Fire and like it a lot. I use it every day for reading books in low light conditions. I'd buy it again tomorrow.
[+] rheide|14 years ago|reply
Would be nice if HN could resolve the (google.com) bit in the list to a Google+ user account.
[+] foobarbazetc|14 years ago|reply
"I tell her it’s less than half the price of an iPad, but the software will be almost as polished because it’s made by Amazon."

LOL. Because Amazon are known for quality consumer software, right?

[+] notatoad|14 years ago|reply
Well, all the kindles before the fire were pretty damn polished.
[+] EmagineEngine|14 years ago|reply
Okay, you've convinced me. It was the lack of privacy that gave me pause. And the well executed Nook.