Much sooner than I expected. Figured it'd be a couple of years before the AG was secure enough in their case to bring charges. This is MUCH faster than Madoff or Holmes.
Then again, he's been much more out in the open about everything. He pretty much laid the prosecution's case out to the public for them.
It's clear Caroline Ellison has turned against him. Stephanie Avakian, former SEC enforcement chief, is representing her in NY. I'm guessing they wouldn't have been able to file charges this quickly without Caroline becoming a cooperating witness.
> A spokeswoman for Mr. Bankman and Ms. Fried wouldn’t comment on whether they are giving their son legal advice. Their friends, some of them legal scholars themselves, have said Mr. Bankman-Fried’s frequent media appearances are a mistake that could put him deeper in legal jeopardy.
“They want him to protect himself, and he won’t,” said Larry Kramer, a former dean at Stanford Law and longtime family friend. “They’ve decided, ‘We’re not going to fight with our son.’”
I kind of had hopes the Bahamas are moving fast. As a tax haven, and arguably black money haven, you cannot have people abusing your lax financial regulations by stealing other peoples money, can you? After all, all the money people are parking at your banks teust you that it will still be there later. Also, in order to keep your freedom you have to keep the US authorities, and the EU, of your back.
Still surprised they moved that fast, I thought they'll wait for a demand from the DoJ.
Edit: According to vice.com, the US asked for his arrest.
Though I assume that if the suspect is abroad and seemingly unwilling to travel to the US, the DOJ would likely try to secure their return early, vs a person of interest in the US, who would be told to not leave the country during the investigation.
The Zoom calls he did where he pretty much confesses to defrauding customers didn’t help.
I hope this is a lesson to those who think they can just talk their way out of things. The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
After adjusting my tinfoil hat, I can only conclude this is to preclude any direct testimony tomorrow. If he’s going to talk to the US authorities, the Bahamians are going to be the mediator.
> Damian Williams, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, said on Twitter that the federal government anticipated moving to “unseal the indictment in the morning.” The charges include wire fraud, wire fraud conspiracy, securities fraud, securities fraud conspiracy, and money laundering, according to the New York Times, citing a person familiar with the matter.
> Meanwhile, the Securities and Exchange Commission has initiated a separate set of charges against Bankman-Fried, relating to “violations of our securities laws, which will be filed publicly tomorrow in the Southern District of New York,” enforcement director Gurbir Grewal said in a statement.
This is good for Crypto. Seriously. Because SBF is probably going to help the US make their case against Binance and that will flush out all the bad actors. Many coins will go to zero. The entire ecosystem will wither and die, but if Crypto survives it will be because there is some fundamental value to it besides digital beanie babies.
I see a lot of people saying that they think he'll get off or get a slap on the wrist. But I think that misunderstands what happened here. SBF perpetrated a massive fraud for years. In order to put him in jail prosecutors don't need to prove that. All they need to do is identify a small handful of actions that count as wire fraud and prove those cases. The saying is "Don't break the law while you're breaking the law"- there is simply no way that SBF was competent enough to actually carry all this business on without fucking up enough to incriminate himself, and now every single dollar that he transacted in this last 5 years will be under a fine tooth comb. To say SBF won't face jail isn't to say he's going to get away with his massive fraud, it's to say he'll also get away with every tiny fraud he committed along the way, and there's just no chance that's the case.
For all the struggles facing the democratic world, it's nice to know there is a stream of justice that prevails.
In certain other large counties, this man would either be protected or jailed depending on what party he aligns to. Sure, you can say the same for USA, but with far less immediacy. Over time things tend to sort themselves out.
SBF's public conduct over the past weeks, and alleged conduct over the past years, reinforces an image of unintelligence. Be it genuine stupidity, stimulants or both, he isn't top-of-the-doghouse material. (Granted, easy to say ex post facto.)
The elephants in the room are Binance and Tether, together with certain high-profile investors. Taking some of these out could likely be worth a plea bargain. (For optics, he has to go to jail. But sending him to jail for a long time while letting the others go free for lack of evidence is a bad trade.)
For those saying "what took so long?", this is incredibly quick. It's still quicker than I thought it would be. But it is an open-and-shut case. As soon as you steal custodial assets (meaning customer assets that you'r eholding in trust), it's game over.
Additionally, the US claims jurisdiction on pretty much anything that touches the US financial system. It's how the US can exert pressure on, say, European banks (eg the Swiss settlements for withholding taxes for US citizens).
Given the scale of the fraud (ie $billions), I honestly expect him to spend the rest of his life in prison. It's that large and that egregious. Was it worth it?
I'm curious to find out if Caroline Ellison was (or will be) a cooperating witness in this case as some speculated when she was spotted in a Starbucks recently in Lower Manhattan close to the SDNY office.
This article has some context, including this part about possible penalties if found guilty:
> Legal experts told CNBC that if the federal government pursues wire or bank fraud charges, Bankman-Fried could face life in prison without the possibility of supervised release. Such a severe punishment would be unusual but not extraordinary. Ponzi scheme mastermind Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison, an effective life sentence, for his massive ponzi scheme. ...
Madoff got a long sentence, but lets not forget that 'legal experts' were predicting a pretty long sentence for Elizabeth Holmes, too, based on federal formulas. It's optimistic at this early stage to legitimately expect SBF to get life behind bars.
He may never see the world outside of a jail again.
Most white-collar criminals are released on bail. But after extradition, it's different.[1]
"The Bail Reform Act ... and the attendant presumption in favor of bail for persons facing trial, apply only to criminal defendants and are inapplicable to fugitives facing extradition proceedings. Because of the potential harm to the country's international relations that could result from flight, there is a presumption against bail in international extradition cases"
This is a downside of operating offshore to try to evade regulation.
It's not even as if he was good at it, the scamming. It's like a three stooges, slapstick approach to financial fraud. He went to MIT for God's sake, he could have done something positive and meaningful with his life but instead chose this. So much opportunity cost lost here, we could have built a few bridges and rail lines, done real work with the money he burned.
I remember reading here (on a previous article about FTX) a comment that said SBF had friends in the Bahamian government, or something like that, so no way he'd get extradited to the US. I found that... pretty funny... at the time, and seems like I was right.
Why would the Bahamian government risk their relations with the US over someone like SBF? Kinda absurd...
[+] [-] rjbwork|3 years ago|reply
Then again, he's been much more out in the open about everything. He pretty much laid the prosecution's case out to the public for them.
[+] [-] dereg|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrchang523|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SanjayMehta|3 years ago|reply
From the WSJ:
https://archive.ph/2022.12.12-111902/https://www.wsj.com/amp...
[+] [-] 323|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noelsusman|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] object-a|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] laluser|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hef19898|3 years ago|reply
Still surprised they moved that fast, I thought they'll wait for a demand from the DoJ.
Edit: According to vice.com, the US asked for his arrest.
[+] [-] bhk|3 years ago|reply
Madoff was arrested before the news broke.
And Madoff was more out in the open. He confessed everything to his sons, and the very next day he was arrested.
[+] [-] justinzollars|3 years ago|reply
Madoff was less than 11 days after discovery of his fraud:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/mar/12/bernard-mad...
[+] [-] cm2187|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adam_arthur|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xwdv|3 years ago|reply
I hope this is a lesson to those who think they can just talk their way out of things. The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] mayankkaizen|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vkou|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eddsh1994|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koolba|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] progrus|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eftychis|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] object-a|3 years ago|reply
Feds were probably gathering evidence from Day 1, and the restructuring CEO seems to have found it: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA00/20221213/115246/HHRG...
[+] [-] greenyoda|3 years ago|reply
> Damian Williams, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, said on Twitter that the federal government anticipated moving to “unseal the indictment in the morning.” The charges include wire fraud, wire fraud conspiracy, securities fraud, securities fraud conspiracy, and money laundering, according to the New York Times, citing a person familiar with the matter.
> Meanwhile, the Securities and Exchange Commission has initiated a separate set of charges against Bankman-Fried, relating to “violations of our securities laws, which will be filed publicly tomorrow in the Southern District of New York,” enforcement director Gurbir Grewal said in a statement.
Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-frie...
[+] [-] woeirua|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SilverBirch|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slimebot80|3 years ago|reply
In certain other large counties, this man would either be protected or jailed depending on what party he aligns to. Sure, you can say the same for USA, but with far less immediacy. Over time things tend to sort themselves out.
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|3 years ago|reply
The elephants in the room are Binance and Tether, together with certain high-profile investors. Taking some of these out could likely be worth a plea bargain. (For optics, he has to go to jail. But sending him to jail for a long time while letting the others go free for lack of evidence is a bad trade.)
[+] [-] jmyeet|3 years ago|reply
Additionally, the US claims jurisdiction on pretty much anything that touches the US financial system. It's how the US can exert pressure on, say, European banks (eg the Swiss settlements for withholding taxes for US citizens).
Given the scale of the fraud (ie $billions), I honestly expect him to spend the rest of his life in prison. It's that large and that egregious. Was it worth it?
I'm curious to find out if Caroline Ellison was (or will be) a cooperating witness in this case as some speculated when she was spotted in a Starbucks recently in Lower Manhattan close to the SDNY office.
[+] [-] greedo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] klyrs|3 years ago|reply
> me: how do I signal my genuinely sweet and feminine nature on my dating profile? should it go before or after the section on wire fraud
https://caroline.milkyeggs.com/worldoptimization/index.html
[+] [-] imperialdrive|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dopamean|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intelVISA|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ratg13|3 years ago|reply
Chat was named “the cartel”
Ended up being a slap on the wrist and the public collectively forgot the largest financial scandal in history happened.
[+] [-] Kye|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jpeter|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mayankkaizen|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Octokiddie|3 years ago|reply
> Legal experts told CNBC that if the federal government pursues wire or bank fraud charges, Bankman-Fried could face life in prison without the possibility of supervised release. Such a severe punishment would be unusual but not extraordinary. Ponzi scheme mastermind Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison, an effective life sentence, for his massive ponzi scheme. ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-frie...
[+] [-] rootusrootus|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] misiti3780|3 years ago|reply
https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/12/sbf-scheduled-to-testify-t...
[+] [-] aaronbrethorst|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|3 years ago|reply
Most white-collar criminals are released on bail. But after extradition, it's different.[1]
"The Bail Reform Act ... and the attendant presumption in favor of bail for persons facing trial, apply only to criminal defendants and are inapplicable to fugitives facing extradition proceedings. Because of the potential harm to the country's international relations that could result from flight, there is a presumption against bail in international extradition cases"
This is a downside of operating offshore to try to evade regulation.
[1] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual...
[+] [-] iancmceachern|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kelnos|3 years ago|reply
Why would the Bahamian government risk their relations with the US over someone like SBF? Kinda absurd...
[+] [-] joezydeco|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blululu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] laluser|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnfn|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trynewideas|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abawany|3 years ago|reply