There are going to be a lot of vans parked on that corner before long.
If I'm these guys, I realize that my moat is weak and do these things:
1. Do not interview with NPR. It isn't like you are driving business. You are only attracting competitors.
2. Park 6 vans outside, each with a different dba so that the market looks saturated.
3. Make a retail space, see if it does better than the vans.
4. Look nation wide for similar geographic anomalies that would create this same pain point. Park a van at one of them and send one of the owners to sit in it. See if money can be made. Repeat.
There are many unemployed people in America right now, it sounds like several dozen can go rent a van and fix the glitch. :-)
It's a common assumption in microecnomics that competition always drives down prices. It doesn't always - every other business knows that starting a price war is suicide, as everyone will lose. The competitors will try to steal business with a similar price, and try to compete on branding and service.
Actually, his best bet is to get a retail space, then get a friend to make a few calls to the cops about suspicious vans around the Chinese embassy, and ask if they are allowed to be there. The legal system is geared against "unofficial" (i.e. poor) business people - itinerant vendors and bugger all rights.
There may be competitors but the initial "branding" will still hold. Guys/gals in blue shirts and red hats and great customer service will differentiate from any would be competitors. Emphasizing the customer service will make sure competition stays away.
I was born in Russia. Where they still have vans like this next to the US embassy, the UK embassy, the Canadian embassy, the French/German/Spanish/Swedish embassies, heck, all the "western" countries' embassies. We're used to it.
This "business plan" is 60 years old. When the WW2 was over and the world was (stupidly) divided into two parts. Visas are PITA. You, Americans, just not very used to it... Fortunately.
Very common business moddel all across Africa too. When the DV2011 signs popup you know it's time for people to apply for the annual green card lottery. I believe the application process has specific requirements for pictures and needs to be done online, so places offer that service.
I wonder how many HN folk's first inclination would have been to create a website to do this instead of rent a van and deal directly with people? How much do we hold ourselves back by trying to go directly to a scaleable solution?
Given that the initial pain point was needing a printer, I hope most people here would have enough sense to realize that an online-only solution wouldn't work.
You're right, a typical programmer would write the website before understanding the business like these guys have. However, they are now vulnerable to price wars with copy cats, and need tools to reduce their costs below their competitors'. This is when scalability means the difference between decreasing margins and a growing business.
At least mine would have been to create a site. When told about this option, my first thought would've probably been "What a waste of talent and time!" though I mean absolutely no offense. If anything I'm inspired to look for those small things that make a difference.
I talked to a guy in Chicago who just opened-up an upscale bar/restaurant. His description of the corruption and bureaucratic hassles reminded me of stories told to me by Indian friends about getting basic stuff done in India. Apparently the Chicago liquor permit process required standing for hours in lines only to be told that you were in the wrong line, had the wrong documents, etc. This guy gladly would have paid a couple hundred bucks for a "guide" of sorts.
I'm sure there are high-end, lawyer-run advisory services which handle these issues for large clients. Perhaps the opportunity lies in the middle-ground? People who don't have complex needs but don't want to waste hours of their day? I'm thinking about the walk-in, "Minute Clinics" at CVS and other pharmacies which are run by nurse practitioners. Nurses there know how to treat basic stuff and how to decide if someone's needs might be beyond their expertise. It works out pretty well for the patient who just wants to confirm that he has strep throat and get some antibiotics.
I could see the same thing doing well outside the US embassy in London.
Offer a US-visa sized passport-photo service, a locker to put your phone when you can't take it into the embassy and some tissues to wipe away your tears of joy/despair and you'd be in business.
Add to that a £10 glossy file to give the assorted papers of your $2,000 application that final touch of gloss and you could make a wonderful income.
OT but funny story I heard. The US Embassy in London wants to buy the land underneath it in Grosvenor Square. That bit of land is owned by the Duke of Westminster. He said he would gladly agree to sell them the land as soon as they returned his familys land in Virginia and New Hampshire that were taken in the 18th century.
I doubt it is even remotely true but funny nonetheless.
There's a shop around the corner from the US embassy in London that does all the needed photos. 2 min walk, very affordable and very friendly. The people in the embassy recommended him.
Great business. Serves an identified need for people with a real pain point. I'm glad to see that they're erecting some barriers to competition with native Mandarin speakers and a service oriented atmosphere.
It'll probably last a few months at least, but make hay while the sun shines. Doing NPR probably wasn't a great idea since their customers don't find them via traditional advertising means, but are literally thrown on their doorstep by the Chinese consulate.
Perhaps, but knowing that the business isn't necessarily durable, it might be worth it for the folks involved to get some eyeballs and raise awareness of the neat projects they've put together (and their noteworthiness for all the deletionists).
The first thing I thought of was, why aren't they getting some kind of parking ticket for their vehicle? Extra publicity is certainly not going to help them if they are violating any city ordinances with their business model.
If they are making $500 a day, they only need this to work for a few months, then they have enough cash to keep them going for a few more to come up with another great idea.
I'm not sure it's sustainable, but it's certainly viable!
Or branch out... my experience with the French consulate was ... uncomfortable the first time, and I would have paid handsomely to not have to go back again for the same Visa.
I soon realized that the Consulate's job for many countries is to keep people out... only when I went to the UK consulate did I see an attempt at customer service.
In fact, any country without a US visa waiver [1] sounds like a decent target market, as all visits would require a trip to the Consulate.
Most of the trouble with the Chinese Visa system is the requirement that you apply in person. Note that this is for reciprocity against the USA requiring the same in-person application for Chinese nationals visiting the USA. There are several "by-mail" services that just stick a runner in line with your documents, I've used one for the last several trips to China.
These services are expensive, like roughly 50-100 bucks, depending on which consulate you're using. Those who stand in line risk running into trouble like the folks in this story, and I'm sure they're more than happy at this point to fork over some cash for the help they need.
Interesting. Having done all the paperwork myself for my wife's visa (thanks to help from visajourney.com) I always wondered how much 'consulting' one could do without being an immigration lawyer.
By the same token, if I am not a tax accountant how much tax advice can I give someone for a fee?
Granted, on the surface the Lucky Dragon Mobile Visa Consultants are just providing an internet and printing service — so there shouldn't be much of an issue. However, would they have to be careful of going from "What form do you need?" to "Hey, before you go in there, you probably need this form instead."
If what I've read about lawyers applies, basically you can give as much tax advice as you like for a fee, until someone sues you for bad advice and you get fleeced.
There might be regulatory boards that go around making sure everyone practicing has credentials, but I bet the first case would catch up to you sooner.
This used to be common in Brazil: a guy in a VW van with a typewriter to help you with bureaucracy. I see the fact that these characters are gone as a sign of progress, so it's funny that this has shown up in the US.
For people who are wondering why this is a bad thing, some context:
In India there are two groups among such "entrepreneurs"
- People who make out a genuine living buy providing typewriting, proof-reading and other services. There's a genuine need for this, because of the relative lack of literacy and byzantine rules.
- Touts. Vermin who have an unholy nexus with the bureaucracy, and generally thrive on rampant corruption.
The second group is the reason for despair. Widespread computerization only helps to an extent; such services still tend to involve manual processes, and corruption does not stop.
In India such people are branded "street peddlers" and you generally avoid them if you can read English. In US, you call them entrepreneurs and get a news story published in NPR!!!
You can also find this kind of services in Romania for specific high-bureaucracy activities, like obtaining permits to build a house. If you want a driver's license, you cannot even find some of the needed forms online, but there is always at least one small copy shop near the government building, where you can find all the forms you need.
Gas + Truck Rental = 100$/day.
Parking/tickets in front of embassy: Free? Costly?
3 people (or 4? The article says they have 2 mandarin speakers on tap) in said truck for 8 hours + back and forth time splitting the remainder and you have a bit under 12.5/hour.
That said, they're not being up front about how much they make, and given its probably largely a cash business ...
The article did say that "he" makes $500/day, which I interpreted as Adam's own net. 3 people a day, $500 each founder, maybe less for the translator (flat wage rather than a stake?), that's a decent business.
If it's $500 in total income for the team, though, that's another story.
I live across the street from this, and I've always wondered what these guys did. Great to read their story, and I've got to say it definitely takes guts to put yourself out there day in and day out (especially right now when it's 14 degrees outside!).
Last time I went to China was just before the Olympic Games and security was a little higher - not sure if it's since relaxed. You needed to list an itinerary for the trip and, specifically, accommodation for each night you were there. I, however, was looking to arrive with basically the contents of my pockets and then make things up as I went along. (Turns out my phone died and I was still wandering Shanghai at 2am until I settled on a hotel, but that's a separate matter.)
Solution was to book a couple of the cheapest hostels in a believable travel pattern, get stamped confirmation letters and then cancel them once I had the visa. I think one of the hostels was so cheap and I felt bad about cancelling (even a month out) that for the $4/night cost, I just let them know I wouldn't be showing up but that they could keep the money.
I wonder if arranging cheap accommodation for this purpose is a service they offer in the van?
When arranging my trip to China, I was told not to even try to get my visa by going to the consulate. I was told to pay a service company to do it. It worked. This certainly helps those who are willing to do it themselves. However, if you plan to go to China, find a service to do it for you.
Quite an interesting story, I would like to point out that being from Pakistan, I have seen such services since the first day that I went outside a passport office.
Here in Karachi, you can find people providing Copy services, to scanning and printing and also what they call here is document composition where the guy writes a complete letter application for the client to be submitted in the Govt office. You can also find different Oath Commissioners (for document attestation). And all these are commonly found outside courts and other Govt offices, usually having a desk under a tree !
> And it's clear that Adam Humphreys and Steven Nelson have stumbled on a viable business. In a van. On the street.
Well, that all depends on your definition of viable. Being dependent on a single bureaucratic bug for your livelihood is not that great. They need to diversify a bit before this can really be called viable.
[+] [-] johnnyg|14 years ago|reply
If I'm these guys, I realize that my moat is weak and do these things:
1. Do not interview with NPR. It isn't like you are driving business. You are only attracting competitors.
2. Park 6 vans outside, each with a different dba so that the market looks saturated.
3. Make a retail space, see if it does better than the vans.
4. Look nation wide for similar geographic anomalies that would create this same pain point. Park a van at one of them and send one of the owners to sit in it. See if money can be made. Repeat.
There are many unemployed people in America right now, it sounds like several dozen can go rent a van and fix the glitch. :-)
[+] [-] wisty|14 years ago|reply
Actually, his best bet is to get a retail space, then get a friend to make a few calls to the cops about suspicious vans around the Chinese embassy, and ask if they are allowed to be there. The legal system is geared against "unofficial" (i.e. poor) business people - itinerant vendors and bugger all rights.
[+] [-] larrydag|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bigohms|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BenoitEssiambre|14 years ago|reply
"We've all been there. Trapped in line at the D-M-V
Or stuck on hold while trying to call a city a-genCY.
It's easy to complain about government bureau-craCY.
But it's the rare person who sees such ineffi-cienCY
as a business opportuniTY.
Meet Adam Humphreys. He lives in New York CiTY
It started simpLY
enough. Adam found out he needed a viSA
to travel to ChiNA.
for a vacation. His bureaucratic haSSleS with the ChineSe conSulate launched a whole new buSineSS.
"Can you help me?" he said.
No!
"Do you have a printer I can use?" he tried.
No!
[+] [-] bjcy|14 years ago|reply
But damn you, it's now stuck in my head, with half a day left at work. I blame you if my function signatures all start to rhyme.
[+] [-] geon|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jitbit|14 years ago|reply
This "business plan" is 60 years old. When the WW2 was over and the world was (stupidly) divided into two parts. Visas are PITA. You, Americans, just not very used to it... Fortunately.
[+] [-] joelhaasnoot|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dbuxton|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dugmartin|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cperciva|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] recampbell|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaipilot747|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] studentrob|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stfu|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ShabbyDoo|14 years ago|reply
I'm sure there are high-end, lawyer-run advisory services which handle these issues for large clients. Perhaps the opportunity lies in the middle-ground? People who don't have complex needs but don't want to waste hours of their day? I'm thinking about the walk-in, "Minute Clinics" at CVS and other pharmacies which are run by nurse practitioners. Nurses there know how to treat basic stuff and how to decide if someone's needs might be beyond their expertise. It works out pretty well for the patient who just wants to confirm that he has strep throat and get some antibiotics.
[+] [-] petenixey|14 years ago|reply
Offer a US-visa sized passport-photo service, a locker to put your phone when you can't take it into the embassy and some tissues to wipe away your tears of joy/despair and you'd be in business.
Add to that a £10 glossy file to give the assorted papers of your $2,000 application that final touch of gloss and you could make a wonderful income.
[+] [-] brc|14 years ago|reply
I doubt it is even remotely true but funny nonetheless.
[+] [-] estel|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wooUK|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freyfogle|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hiccup|14 years ago|reply
It'll probably last a few months at least, but make hay while the sun shines. Doing NPR probably wasn't a great idea since their customers don't find them via traditional advertising means, but are literally thrown on their doorstep by the Chinese consulate.
[+] [-] knowtheory|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Game_Ender|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexchamberlain|14 years ago|reply
I'm not sure it's sustainable, but it's certainly viable!
[+] [-] r00fus|14 years ago|reply
I soon realized that the Consulate's job for many countries is to keep people out... only when I went to the UK consulate did I see an attempt at customer service.
In fact, any country without a US visa waiver [1] sounds like a decent target market, as all visits would require a trip to the Consulate.
[1] http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#...
[+] [-] nemesisj|14 years ago|reply
These services are expensive, like roughly 50-100 bucks, depending on which consulate you're using. Those who stand in line risk running into trouble like the folks in this story, and I'm sure they're more than happy at this point to fork over some cash for the help they need.
[+] [-] felideon|14 years ago|reply
By the same token, if I am not a tax accountant how much tax advice can I give someone for a fee?
Granted, on the surface the Lucky Dragon Mobile Visa Consultants are just providing an internet and printing service — so there shouldn't be much of an issue. However, would they have to be careful of going from "What form do you need?" to "Hey, before you go in there, you probably need this form instead."
[+] [-] sliverstorm|14 years ago|reply
There might be regulatory boards that go around making sure everyone practicing has credentials, but I bet the first case would catch up to you sooner.
[+] [-] forinti|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] learc83|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ruchi|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ck2|14 years ago|reply
It's the law enforcement that won't allow them to park and run a commercial business like that.
[+] [-] five18pm|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] balakk|14 years ago|reply
In India there are two groups among such "entrepreneurs"
- People who make out a genuine living buy providing typewriting, proof-reading and other services. There's a genuine need for this, because of the relative lack of literacy and byzantine rules.
- Touts. Vermin who have an unholy nexus with the bureaucracy, and generally thrive on rampant corruption.
The second group is the reason for despair. Widespread computerization only helps to an extent; such services still tend to involve manual processes, and corruption does not stop.
[+] [-] harichinnan|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] miahi|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cdibona|14 years ago|reply
Gas + Truck Rental = 100$/day. Parking/tickets in front of embassy: Free? Costly?
3 people (or 4? The article says they have 2 mandarin speakers on tap) in said truck for 8 hours + back and forth time splitting the remainder and you have a bit under 12.5/hour.
That said, they're not being up front about how much they make, and given its probably largely a cash business ...
[+] [-] pflats|14 years ago|reply
If it's $500 in total income for the team, though, that's another story.
[+] [-] joshwa|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ovi256|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arnoldwh|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prawn|14 years ago|reply
Solution was to book a couple of the cheapest hostels in a believable travel pattern, get stamped confirmation letters and then cancel them once I had the visa. I think one of the hostels was so cheap and I felt bad about cancelling (even a month out) that for the $4/night cost, I just let them know I wouldn't be showing up but that they could keep the money.
I wonder if arranging cheap accommodation for this purpose is a service they offer in the van?
[+] [-] simpsond|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] umairj|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carlsednaoui|14 years ago|reply
Think of a solution: Check
Take some calculated risks: Check
Bring your solution to customers in need: Check
Make money: Check
This is brilliant!
[+] [-] swombat|14 years ago|reply
Well, that all depends on your definition of viable. Being dependent on a single bureaucratic bug for your livelihood is not that great. They need to diversify a bit before this can really be called viable.