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moeris | 3 years ago

Many of us pay for government services we will never use, though. As a man, for example, I'll never be a recipient of WIC. By your logic, I should never have to pay for these benefits. However, that seems wrong. Even if I never use WIC, Social security, government housing, addiction recovery programs, etc. I should still pay for them because it's good for society as a whole.

Plus, there's the fact that even if you're not living in the US doesn't mean you're not benefiting from citizenship. You still enjoy the privilege of American consulates, being able to travel to certain countries, and certain limited protections and privileges. So it's not like it's _nothing_.

discuss

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arcticbull|3 years ago

Citizenship-based taxation was brought in as a way of punishing deserters during the civil war and simply never dropped.

It doesn't make sense to tax citizens who aren't resident when you are also taxing residents who aren't citizens. That's having your cake and eating it too - which I can only imagine is part of the reason no other country on Earth does this (except Eritrea, who obviously cannot enforce).

If resident aliens have to pay taxes while resident, and can stop when they leave - doesn't it also make sense for resident citizens to be afforded the same luxury?

The state department operates on a cost-recovery basis anyways so if you avail yourself of emergency or consular services you get mailed a bill no matter what.

[edit] Remember if you live abroad you have to pay taxes to that government too! So the question is why is it a fair impingement on your freedom to live abroad to have to pay taxes to two different governments simply because you're an American?

You're being punished as a de facto civil war deserter! The war is over, friend. The North won! Let freedom ring! lol.

[edit2] As @drewcoo pointed out I used the term 'deserter' inappropriately in context, I should have said 'deadbeats.' I was in fact referring to citizens who left the United States around the time of the war and the way they were viewed by congress as not paying their fair share while retaining a vested interest in the outcome of the war. It was a colloquialism used as flourish that was wrong in context. h/t.

judge2020|3 years ago

> Citizenship-based taxation was brought in as a way of punishing deserters during the civil war and simply never dropped.

Have a resource for this? From what I remember, income tax started around the 1910's with the 16th amendment and grew to take out a large portion of citizens' income when prohibition severely cut sales tax proceeds from alcohol.

vouaobrasil|3 years ago

The situations are so different though. No matter how hard you try, if you are living in a country, you are going to use SOMETHING that is paid for by taxes. Roads, walking down the sidewalk even, snow removal, throwing away a wrapper in a city garbage can, NOT stepping in glass because someone picked it up, ambulance if you get in an accident, etc.

Whereas if you live in another country for years, you use pretty much NOTHING (except for some consular services MAYBE). Huge difference.

_s|3 years ago

You pay for the political, economic and military power that ensures you are somewhat protected when in another country.

Would you rather have a US passport living in UAE or Bali or Australia, or would you prefer to have an Iranian one?

I'm not saying the taxation is "right", as nearly all other nations don't care, just highlighting what folks would argue it's for.

judge2020|3 years ago

If I'm not mistaken, you don't need to file taxes if you relinquish citizenship, right? It's not exactly a secret that a large amount of US taxes go to defense, which maintains the US' position as a world superpower, which you benefit from via your citizenship and US passport.