The official release notes garnered a great number of comments last month¹, including loads of informative stuff directly from upstream dev waddlesplash.
> The new version supports HiDPI displays [...] and has significantly improved Wi-Fi support, including via some USB Wi-Fi adapters[.]
> [...]
> It has translation layers for both X11 and Wayland, as well as for Gtk apps, alongside the WINE support it gained this time last year. This means a number of new apps, including the GNOME Web browser Epiphany, a full graphical version of Emacs, updated POSIX layer, WINE, and more.
> [...]
> In testing, we didn't experience a single crash[.] [...] Just for reference, this article was written on Haiku itself, on the bare metal of an old ThinkPad W500, using a Markdown editor called Ghostwriter.
All I really need for most of my computer use is a web browser, Emacs, and a decent command line, and I imagine similar is true for many HN readers. Sounds like Haiku is ready for hobbyists in this crowd to use for a fair chunk of our most common computing tasks.
I love the Linux desktop, but I'm really curious about non-Unix F/OSS desktops. I will have to see if there's a place for Haiku in my life on some old hardware!
> Haiku, like BeOS before it, is not a Unix. If you actively like Unix, and what you want to do already works well on Unix – any Unix, and that includes macOS, as well as Linux and FreeBSD – then you probably won't see much appeal here.
Don’t they support the same set of terminal command as in other Unix-like systems? From what I saw [1] there aren’t much difference. Well that is what what people care about unix, right?
(Haiku developer here.) This is actually a very common misconception that Haiku is not a UNIX, and it's sad to see The Register get it wrong.
It's debatable whether or not BeOS was a UNIX, but I think by most standards it is: the `fork()`-based process model, UNIX-style file descriptors (but no `mmap`), etc.
Haiku has all the bits BeOS had, of course, but we have far extended our POSIX compliance: of course we have mmap, but also pthreads, and /dev/ (including all the staples, like /dev/null, etc.) These aren't mere compatibility wrappers, but often the "native" APIs; some of the Be APIs are implemented on Haiku using them (while others use lower-level APIs.) There is no "POSIX compatibility layer" in the kernel, it's just natively POSIX all the way down.
Unix is not just a set of terminal commands, it's the whole system architecture, and the fact that all those derive from the original old AT&T Unix. If I run the Bash shell on Windows, it won't turn it into Unix either..
> Don’t they support the same set of terminal command as in other Unix-like systems? From what I saw [1] there aren’t much difference. Well that is what what people care about unix, right?
You can use bash so yes most builtin shell commands are supported. You won't have all the linux specific commands though.
Sorry I missed the marketing - I love that it's different, but who's the target user and what's the pitch for them to use Haiku? The author warned about backlash, but having a tight pitch is a key ingredient in continuing the warm vibes and avoiding backlash.
IMHO not-Linux isn't so scary anymore, plenty of people have fought with MacOS to get the better hardware, slicker desktop, etc.
Does it run Docker? If so, I'd love to see a solid integration where I can have bug-compatible linux environment for development, but Haiku for simplicity, speed & UI
I think it appeals people who want a fast booting, snappy OS with base low memory usage.
If you focus on apps using the original tooling/toolkit it looks very integrated. A bit less if you start using gtk/qt apps though.
Since it has some virtualization support it should be able to run docker/podman from a vm, which is basically what happens with docker on MacOS or Windows. I haven't seen a project similar to docker/podman desktop on it but this is not a show stopper imho. I would look at a project like portainer for people wanting a gui for docker that can run wherever docker run.
It probably can be used to save under-powered hardware from being discarded; one would think that for limited-scope usage (e.g. browsing/basic productivity etc), it should perform well.
> under-powered hardware ... one would think that for limited-scope usage (e.g. browsing ...), it should perform well.
Alas, I fear that browsing is probably one of the things that require good performance and a huge amount of software and complexity. Because browsing probably involves "checking Gmail" (huge amount of JS, need a good fast JS engine e.g. with JIT etc.) or "watching a YouTube video" (need to have video codecs correctly connected to the graphics card hardware), etc.
It is lovely to use once you learn the keyboard shortcuts
My main gripes for now:
- no full disk encryption which means it can only really be used as a kiosk computer and not contain anything sensitive.
- I haven't been able to play anything reliably from netflix or hbomax. either with otterbrowser or epiphany/Gnome Web. Probably Widevine can't be run on those and even tweaking user agents won't help.
Right now it is relegated as a kiosk computer for the kitchen to follow recipes and play music on an old laptop when I am cooking.
That’s somewhat ironic because that’s basically what Be pivoted to shortly before their demise. AFAIK the Sony eVilla running BeIA was the last release from Be. They were about 15 years too early with the concept.
> It is lovely to use once you learn the keyboard shortcuts
If you mean Alt vs. Ctrl, you can swap to Ctrl-based keyboard shortcuts by clicking the button in the "Keymap" application. But, the Quick Tour tells you this, there's a reason we encourage users to take it :) https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/welcome/en/quicktour.html#shor...
JNRowe|3 years ago
¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34109349
pxc|3 years ago
> The new version supports HiDPI displays [...] and has significantly improved Wi-Fi support, including via some USB Wi-Fi adapters[.]
> [...]
> It has translation layers for both X11 and Wayland, as well as for Gtk apps, alongside the WINE support it gained this time last year. This means a number of new apps, including the GNOME Web browser Epiphany, a full graphical version of Emacs, updated POSIX layer, WINE, and more.
> [...]
> In testing, we didn't experience a single crash[.] [...] Just for reference, this article was written on Haiku itself, on the bare metal of an old ThinkPad W500, using a Markdown editor called Ghostwriter.
All I really need for most of my computer use is a web browser, Emacs, and a decent command line, and I imagine similar is true for many HN readers. Sounds like Haiku is ready for hobbyists in this crowd to use for a fair chunk of our most common computing tasks.
I love the Linux desktop, but I'm really curious about non-Unix F/OSS desktops. I will have to see if there's a place for Haiku in my life on some old hardware!
kristopolous|3 years ago
chazeon|3 years ago
> Haiku, like BeOS before it, is not a Unix. If you actively like Unix, and what you want to do already works well on Unix – any Unix, and that includes macOS, as well as Linux and FreeBSD – then you probably won't see much appeal here.
Don’t they support the same set of terminal command as in other Unix-like systems? From what I saw [1] there aren’t much difference. Well that is what what people care about unix, right?
[1]: https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/applications/list...
waddlesplash|3 years ago
It's debatable whether or not BeOS was a UNIX, but I think by most standards it is: the `fork()`-based process model, UNIX-style file descriptors (but no `mmap`), etc.
Haiku has all the bits BeOS had, of course, but we have far extended our POSIX compliance: of course we have mmap, but also pthreads, and /dev/ (including all the staples, like /dev/null, etc.) These aren't mere compatibility wrappers, but often the "native" APIs; some of the Be APIs are implemented on Haiku using them (while others use lower-level APIs.) There is no "POSIX compatibility layer" in the kernel, it's just natively POSIX all the way down.
dixie_land|3 years ago
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
Many systems are definitely UNIX-like and many are to different degrees POSIX-compliant
d12bb|3 years ago
prmoustache|3 years ago
You can use bash so yes most builtin shell commands are supported. You won't have all the linux specific commands though.
otikik|3 years ago
"image thumbnails in the file manager"
It took them one less year than Gnome to implement that one!
https://www.omglinux.com/gnome-thumbnails-file-picker/
tokai|3 years ago
kristopolous|3 years ago
lproven|3 years ago
Gosh. Thank you.
(I mean, I hope that's not being sarcastic...?)
jason_slack|3 years ago
asah|3 years ago
IMHO not-Linux isn't so scary anymore, plenty of people have fought with MacOS to get the better hardware, slicker desktop, etc.
Does it run Docker? If so, I'd love to see a solid integration where I can have bug-compatible linux environment for development, but Haiku for simplicity, speed & UI
prmoustache|3 years ago
If you focus on apps using the original tooling/toolkit it looks very integrated. A bit less if you start using gtk/qt apps though.
Since it has some virtualization support it should be able to run docker/podman from a vm, which is basically what happens with docker on MacOS or Windows. I haven't seen a project similar to docker/podman desktop on it but this is not a show stopper imho. I would look at a project like portainer for people wanting a gui for docker that can run wherever docker run.
0x445442|3 years ago
noisy_boy|3 years ago
adrianmsmith|3 years ago
Alas, I fear that browsing is probably one of the things that require good performance and a huge amount of software and complexity. Because browsing probably involves "checking Gmail" (huge amount of JS, need a good fast JS engine e.g. with JIT etc.) or "watching a YouTube video" (need to have video codecs correctly connected to the graphics card hardware), etc.
UncleSlacky|3 years ago
prmoustache|3 years ago
My main gripes for now:
- no full disk encryption which means it can only really be used as a kiosk computer and not contain anything sensitive.
- I haven't been able to play anything reliably from netflix or hbomax. either with otterbrowser or epiphany/Gnome Web. Probably Widevine can't be run on those and even tweaking user agents won't help.
Right now it is relegated as a kiosk computer for the kitchen to follow recipes and play music on an old laptop when I am cooking.
cardanome|3 years ago
Agreed on the disk encryption. Other than that Haiku is indeed getting dangerously close to being feasible as a daily driver.
For work Docker support would be nice-to-have but one can always set up a Linux VM instead. Docker performance on Windows and Mac is crap anyway.
jonhohle|3 years ago
waddlesplash|3 years ago
If you mean Alt vs. Ctrl, you can swap to Ctrl-based keyboard shortcuts by clicking the button in the "Keymap" application. But, the Quick Tour tells you this, there's a reason we encourage users to take it :) https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/welcome/en/quicktour.html#shor...
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
lproven|3 years ago