This might be the first Ryzen 6800U Linux laptop, which is cool, but it's a bit hard for me to get too excited about it...
* One of the biggest selling points of Ryzen 6000 is the chip's USB4 support, but looks like the Pangolin won't have it. It also only has 1 USB-C port, which is a bit of a headscratcher in 2023. Does it support PD even? (Not mentioned)
* 16:9 FHD display (no brightness specified) - high refresh is nice, but again, weird that it's not 16:10 in 2023 and IMO, QHD would be better for a 15-16" display.
* soldered memory (32GB at least)
* Numpad keyboard. This will be a positive for some, but I'm in the centered keyboard camp
* Only a 70Wh battery and still not so light (1.8kg)
While it's running an older chip, if you're not going to have USB4/TB4, and the points I listed are important, I think the Tuxedo Pulse 15 Gen2 is still a better 15" option atm (5700U chip, but lighter, bigger battery, better (still 16:9) display, Ethernet, SODIMM slots). There are some Ubuntu certified ThinkPads that are an option too (they have Ryzen 6000U chips but also no USB4), although almost all the models are w/ soldered RAM on ThinkPads now, which is a bummer.
If you want USB4 on AMD, the best (Linux friendly) options right now are probably the Asus G14 GA402 or a ThinkPad Z16. The HP EliteBook G9s are an option as well, although you need Linux 6.0+ to fix a broken HP BIOS update (HP support is also aggressively indifferent to Linux users) and I've seen lots of complaints about the fan curve and the SureView displays so I'm hesitant to recommend it...
I’m holding out hope on System76 designing truly custom hardware and we reach the fabled “MacBook of Linux” someday. As of now their Clevo rebadges don’t appeal to me, though their “custom” desktops do.
It might seem like nitpicking but I'm actually on your side here, as a consumer.
It's been a struggle to find a 1440 AMD laptop, I have one that I'm happy with for travel. (Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Carbon Gen 6)
I also don't want it to be too big, for travel, so numpad is out for me.
The Slim 7 feels like a toy, but it's actually just very, very light, and made of plastic. It creeks, yes, but it's very, very light. This is more important to me when it's on my back, than being out of metal.
Agreed on preferring a bright 16:10 display. It might seem minor but that was on of the factors that pushed me over the edge to buy a ThinkPad X1 Nano instead of a Lemur Pro a couple of years ago.
I'm also not into numpads on laptops. Not that they aren't useful sometimes, but the they push the alpha cluster and trackpad off-center which is uncomfortable to type on which is hard to justify with how little I personally need one — a standalone numpad that I pull out of a drawer during tax season or whenever makes a lot more sense. Ultimately I think 15"+ laptops should offer keyboard options with and without numpads.
Personally I'm super happy to see FHD@15" make a return. I have pretty ok eyesight, but QHD@15" is unreadable without fractional scaling (which will probably be usable… right around the same time as Wayland and fusion energy).
I have a 14” QHD laptop (framework) and it’s really awkward without fractional scaling. I don’t know that 20-25% more screen space would really fix that.
16:10? That's a dead format. It was seeing some popularity around ~2006 but quickly died out as 16:9 took over.
21:9 is the popular ultra-widescreen option. 16:9 is the popular regular option. Acting like 16:10 is the direction the industry is going is just bizarre.
It is a 144Hz display, which makes it significantly more interesting than an average 1080p display. 60Hz just feels so stuttery these days.
But, I agree that a higher resolution would be nice, and if I'm being completely honest... I would want OLED. Tons of affordable OLED laptops have come to market over the past year.
I have one (the previous one with AMD Ryzen 5700u). I've been using it for work the last 6 months coming from an 2015 macbook. Its been great for developing. The battery lasts pretty well (forgetting my power supply when working from home I got almost 7 hours), its fast (I've done some genetics blast runs which take hours, where those extra cores really help). Its pretty quiet too (you can hear the fan when it spins up, but its very reasonable). Returning to a Mat screen has been nice.
I really like AMD on the notebook. Compared to my 4 year old Oryx pro (intel 8th gen), which had poor battery life (esp when using the Nvidia graphics) and required a reboot initially if I wanted to switch to intel graphics. This one is much nicer, but it won't game nearly as well as one with dedicated graphics.
The first thing I see is a 16x9 screen, think "pass", and close the page. There have to be other LCD panel makers out there. Either their customers don't care and/or the company doesn't care to make a better laptop.
Yah I don't get why these laptop manufactures keep shipping garbage screens. I got a 3:2 2160 x 1440, IPS screen on a $200 tablet a few months ago. My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse, and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as much.
So, please, its hard to call your product "premium" if its screen is worse than a bottom of the barrel tablet.
I've bought a couple of laptops from System76. They charge outrageous prices and and shipping costs for even the smallest part; other than that, getting parts for their rebadged Clevo machines can be a bit challenging because you often have to order from China, so it takes a while.
since 13months ago, HP sells a elite book G9 for 2k, which have the best combo configuration at, gasp, wallmart for 800... eigth hundred dollars.
same cpu, but PRO version. metal and plastic body. scissor waterproof keyboard. usb c charging (system76 is barrel), 2x sodimm ram slots (system76 is soldered, note thay amd zen3+ pro mighty allow ECC ram in a laptop for the first time! so i want slots), the battery have 18Wh less, but it is also 20pct ligther. and all hardware is fully supported with 5.8+ kernel.
I always try to buy from linux-first-vendors, but I still deal with a librem13 that have sevral keys fail on their keyboard and support is ghosting me. even had to super-glue the hinge latelly. so awful :(
800 seems cheap for an elitebook. Is that the 8x0 model?
I have the older g8. It worked perfectly out of the box on linux since new. Recently, windows started being able to use the webcam, too.
But beware the screen. It's absurdly bad. I'd say it's okish for $800. For 2000, it's a bad joke. Some models only have 6-bit screens (at least those have an excuse for being horrible).
The fan is sometimes noisy, too. It seems like it's somewhat off-balance, ever since it was new.
Last time there was a System76 laptop announcement on HN I said I was going to be in the market for a new laptop in the coming year but wouldn't consider a System76 laptop because of the giant logo on the lid. Some people said the logos on their System76 laptops were stickers which could be removed. I contacted System76 and was told that was no longer the case.
If anyone from System76 is here, I am currently looking for a new laptop and will not be buying a System76 laptop based entirely upon the giant logo on them. I don't want to put a skin, a cover or stickers over my laptop. My preference would be no logo at all but that seems to be impossible. If you are compelled to use me for free advertising post purchase, at least make it somewhat discreet.
On my Darter Pro 8 (recentish, not top-of-the-line) laptop, the branding on the lid isn't one sticker, it's a sticker per character, which I could likely remove and leave smooth black metal.
This Reddit thread seems to agree with me that the stickers can be removed, albeit about a different model:
Despite the niche love for them on a personal level corporate fleet buyers would still buy DTSN screens if they were $5 cheaper per unit than the regular ones because they are that damn fickle.
That is to say their priorities are different.
Non-programmers are not really fond of it, unlike you and me. I actually consider it a ThinkPad underutilized selling point but it takes time to master navigation with the pointer stick and sometimes it gets in the way when you need to type fast.
In the last month I bought and returned a Darter Pro from them. Almost immediately I realized what some have mentioned already-- these machines are overpriced and lack build quality you'd get with mainstream laptops. The bezel was messed up, causing light bleed on the display. I'd be better off loading Ubuntu onto a Dell XPS for half the price.
+1, System76's build quality is terrible. My company spent lots of $$$ on system76 workstations, only found that GPU card falls off during shipping due to the terrible design they have...
The price and build quality are both bad, but I think you're leaving off the most important one: the software support is bad. I haven't had a Linux machine with unreliable sleep/wake in fifteen years except for my System76 Adder WS.
A bulletproof, "Just Works" Linux laptop would have its place even with System76's other problems. But they trail behind the likes of Lenovo even on their supposed strong suit.
Been a Linux user for 20+ years. Pretty sick that we have companies like this selling Linux laptops with Coreboot. Man, that was a wild dream back in the day.
I'm using a Macbook personally, but this stuff is so sick. To be honest, I never really imagined the future as using Windows + Linux + MacOS without thinking that much about the platform, but about the only thing that sticks out to me is that the command line on Windows is rubbish. Otherwise, it feels very naturally normal to me as I switch between platforms. The web has really changed things.
Only thing that surprises me are the screens. I thought the high res screens like in the Macbook were commonplace now.
You really have to do your homework with the new AMD processor rebranding. It's super easy to think your getting the latest and greatest, only to end up with Vega 2 graphics like the 5000 series from years ago. I had to whiteboard it to keep it all straight myself.
When I look at AMD's new mobile lineup for 2023, and I didn't notice anything "new" in the U-series power profile (15 watts tdp). I'd be more than happy with a 6800U in linux friendly packaging.
Let me know if you think there's a specific 7000 series chip I've overlooked.
P.S: about the system 76 teaser itself, the static picture used as a "before and after" comparison for 60hz display vs 144 hz display is comedic gold.
"Around the corner" is relative. Last year, the Ryzen 6000U was announced at CES and laptops shipping with them didn't start becoming available until around August. This year, AMD haven't even bothered to announce the U series at CES. I wouldn't expect any non-gaming Ryzen 7000 laptops to be announce before Computex (and ship before back-to-school season?). Anything earlier would probably be 7030 drop-ins, which are just refreshed/rebranded Rembrandt Ryzen 6000 chips anyway.
I bought a Lemur because of coreboot but I can't tell if this laptop will have coreboot or a closed BIOS/EFI. Admittedly I haven't played around with customizing the coreboot firmware but that was my intention, mostly to avoid long boot times and potentially to try fitting the whole kernel in firmware.
I recently bought a System76 Oryx Pro 9, and I could not for the life of me get Debian to boot from a USB. The same USB booted on my old Galago Pro, so I know it was good. The Oryx Pro runs on some FOSS UEFI or BIOS made by System76 themselves, and it doesn't play nice with anything but Ubuntu and Pop!_OS.
I filed a support ticket asking for help, and they told me they only support Ubuntu and Pop. On one hand, I understand having service desk limits, but their garbage UEFI and lack of support left me no choice but to return the laptop. In fact, I thought this article was going to be about people returning laptops to System76!
I really hope they get their game together and make a pre-boot system that can handle non-Ububtu stuff easily. The previous System76 I had was able to handle a Debian install just fine.
It's a bit judgmental to call their UEFI "garbage" just because it didn't work correctly for you.
I agree it's frustrating they don't support booting other operating systems, but please be fair or provide some more evidence before you call some software "garbage"
They should have gone with AMD from the start and the screen is a non-starter. When researching laptops, screen is probably the biggest differentiator at this point.
I won't be replacing my Galago Pro with another System76 product when that day finally comes.
I bought a Xiaomi RedMiBook Pro 15" 2022 edition last summer. On Aliexpress no less. The machine was a steal at 1.2kEUR. I bought the maxed out config which is about 1.5k if you buy it e.g. via the Xiamomi shop instead [1].
There is excellent support for all hardware on Linux (and even a ICC profile) in [2].
I run System76's pop!_OS on it. Everything works dandy. The machine is a beast.
It has a 3.2k (!) res screen. Only 400nits but I find that's plenty for the lighting conditions I use it under. The case is milled from dark alluminum and is frequently mistaken for a macbook. The build quality is top.
It's a Ryzen 6800H APU with built in Radeon and an NVIDIA GTX2050.
It has 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD.
It's the first non-mac I bought in a decade after getting disappointed with macOS in recent years.
The only thing that isn't on par is the touchpad on Linux. On Windows it's very close so this is definitely a config issue. I may just have to spend some time with settings.
I've been eying up this laptop. Could you elaborate on your experience with it on Linux? Have the patches in [2] been mainlined? If not, have they worked between kernel releases (e.g. linux-5.x to linux-6.x)? How's the battery life? 3200x2000 @ 15.6" = 242ppi. Are you able to use integer (2x) scaling comfortably?
Try using Wayland and see how the touchpad feels. Should be much better. Nvidia makes it problematic to use Wayland, but it’s a good test to verify the quality of the trackpad hardware.
My 2014 RMBP is finally ready to go to the great messenger bag in the sky. Apple no longer provides updates and the battery is swelling. I'm not excited about the new MacBook offerings. The hardware is neat but the OS really turns me off. Apple is on a crusade to make MacOS unusable and the lack of stability in the environment is too much for me.
I'm ready to make the leap into a Linux desktop environment just for the sake of stability but I want well supported hardware. Is System 76 a good option? The advice that makes sense to me is to "use what the devs use". Does an AMD-only System 76 check that box?
Not the state of the art as of CES announcements, but I'd happily get a laptop with one of these if I needed a laptop right now.
It's good System76 is offering such an option, because it makes them a candidate.
I would not currently consider a laptop that's based on Intel or NVIDIA hardware, due to vastly inferior performance/watt and lack of open documentation, respectively.
I have trouble understanding why every Linux-friendly laptop vendor insists on this godawful arrow key layout. It was a bad idea when Apple did it, and it was a bad idea when you copied them. Apple has even backtracked on this terrible design, but the copycats never got the memo.
I'm never, ever buying a laptop with full-height horizontal keys but half-height vertical keys.
Nice lappy. I would also like to see max amount of RAM supported. I normally buy laptops with the least amount of RAM and then add max amount that I could buy way cheaper elsewhere. Same with SSDs.
OK, let's look and analyse what they have in detail:
Operating System: Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS or Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
Do they offer any custom software that are only available on these distributions and would be a struggle to find on other? Sone other Clevo resellers have for example custom software to control the fan intensity that's Ubuntu only (and Ubuntu 20.04 only). It's not clear why they restrict it to only these distributions. Also, why did they even bother to develop their own distribution? Every Linux in existence is a combination of 1 DE (Gnome, KDE, XFCE or other), 1 package manager (apt, pacmanm etc...) and some kernel params. Is it really worth spending their time on a custom Linux instead of on hardware/firmware? Speaking of firmware, does it have Coreboot or stock Clevo BIOS? Does it have a fingerprint reader and does it work, can you control the fan speed from anywhere? Nowhere to find answers to these questions...
Processor: AMD Ryzen™ 7 6800U: 2.7 up to 4.7 GHz - 8 Cores - 16 Threads
Graphics: AMD Radeon™ 680M
This is great! my opinion is this is the best laptop processor reasonably available on the market right now. But if you're not desperate to switch your laptop and can wait until the middle or end of this year, buying the next generation Zen4 processor is astronomically better.
Display 15.6″ 1920×1080 FHD, Matte Finish, 144 Hz
Not bad, not good either, 1440p would have been ideal. They do not specify the sRGB % coverage. Is it 90, 95, 99? The difference between 90 and 95 is definitely noticeable and you would do yourself a big disservice if you don't go for 95% at least.
Memory: 32 GB LPDDR5 @ 6400 MHz
Yes, amazing, the future is now! But is it 4x8 or 2x16? And is it ECC? What brand?
Storage: 2 x M.2 SSD(PCIe NVMe). Up to 16TB total.
No problems here, I assume PCIe 4.0, but would be great if they specified. Don't want to accidentally discover it was PCIe 3.0 after the purchase has been made. Also, what brand of SSD do they provide? Brands are important so you can look at benchmarks.
Expansion: 3 × USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A, 1 × USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C, SD Card Reader
3 USBA, 1 USBC? Why not 2 and 2? In the future we will need less USBA and more USBC. Look at macbooks, they have all USBC and everybody eventually copies macbooks anyway (regardless if it's a good or bad decision). The more USBC you have now the better for the future.
Input: Multitouch Clickpad, Single-Color Backlit US QWERTY Keyboard
Is 100% of the surface area clickable on the clickpad, or is it one of those awkward ones where you have "mouse buttons" at the top/bottom, and you can not press onto the top, only tap? Need more information!
Keyboard wise it's great! a 15 inch laptop without a numpad is a waste of potential, as a numpad is immensely helpful when doing any sort of finance work. I definitely would not buy a laptop this big without one. Still some more information non the keyboard layouts available would be nice.
Networking: Gigabit Ethernet, WiFi 6E, Bluetooth 5.2
All perfect here!
Video Ports: HDMI 2.0, USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C w/ DisplayPort
I'm assuming this is the same single USBC that they mentioned above. Is it DisplayPort 1.4, or 2.0?
This is their biggest flaw. If you look at the chassis, you will see, the speakers point DOWNWARD. Speakers are supposed to point towards the listener, not away from them. Also, from previously owning multiple Clevo laptops that I've bought for work purposes, sound quality is so bad, you can simply assume you have no speakers as you'll be using headphones or a conference speaker. If you buy this thinking you'll be able to enjoy any kind of video/movie out of working hours without purchasing and carrying extra peripherals you will be extremely frustrated and disappointed. Low maximum volume, poor quality sound, no base, and pointing away from you; every flaw imaginable. More that 4 people in a conference room and wanting to dial in from one laptop to share? Forget about it, you will be embarrassed to even try as the combination of laptop's built-in speakers and microphone quality will make the whole experience terrible. This is an area where macbooks excel, great speakers and great microphone, and that's why people love them so much, you can actually enjoy the audio interaction. There is no reason for non macbook laptops to be this bad at audio. All they have to do is copy macbooks, like they eventually do anyway... just put in better speakers and microphone, it's that easy. Cost wise it's not an issue either since a machine like this is going to cost in the same ballpark as a macbook anyway, why be cheap on something so insignificant for the overall price but so important for the user experience?
Camera: 1.0MP 720p HD Webcam
Security: Kensington® Lock, Hardware Camera Kill Switch
A camera cover is better than a camera kill switch in my opinion, good to have at least I guess.
Why not 99Wh? (the maximum allowed at airports) This is not a macbook, it's a beefy, thick laptop no matter how you look at it, why not outfit it properly?
Overall: at least it's guaranteed to run Linux... but from the points I raised above I guess you can see there is no point for me to get excited about this model in particular. Price wise it's going to be over the "expensive" threshold anyway, so might as well find something that ticks most checkboxes. Unless, of course I'm desperate for a new machine, in which case I could settle for this for a while.
To respond to your first part about operating system: I bought a computer with Pop!_OS but I promptly reformatted the disk and installed openSUSE on it. No issues at all. I did notice that in their preinstalled OS they did some customizations (enabling GNOME fractional scaling for example) but nothing that's not available in other distros. They have a nice Pop!_OS shell that's friendly to those new to tiling window managers, but that's also something you can install on other distros. I have previously mentioned on HN how I like that shell: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33295421
The chassis looks great and is made of magnesium - if it weren't for the tenkey I would be seriously considering this. A smaller thinkpad-esque machine would probably be really popular.
This is what kills me. At work, they only swear by HP for some reason. So, I've got a shitty Elitebook that cost, after RAM and SSD upgrades, within 100 euros of a same-size MBP with same RAM and SSD.
But the build quality is uniformly worse. And the screen... it's an atrocity. You don't have to compare it to an MBP (I only have an old 2013 one, and it still wipes the floor with it). Even compared to an older XPS (7th gen intel), it's horrible.
I have a System76 galp5. It's fairly thin and lightweight. I have mixed feelings about it. Linux support is good. But Windows support is pretty bad. All available drivers are here: https://github.com/system76/windows-drivers but even after installing everything in that repo listed under galp5, I still have a ton of issues including laptop not going to sleep when lid is closed, touchpad occasionally not working until I toggle it on/off from settings, etc. Getting Windows working from Pop OS using Virtual Box was also a massive, fragile headache. I would get it working, but then sometimes when using Visual Studio from inside virtual box it would freeze and the VM would be permanently bricked unless I had previously saved a snapshot.
All this to say that if you care about Linux and only Linux, System76 could be a good choice. But if you need to use Windows at all, I would steer clear of S76 until their Windows support is a little better (also YMMV - I've just had so many issues with Windows on a galp5, but that might not be the case with other models).
The Ryzen 7000 mobile lineup includes chips based on Zen4, Zen 3+, Zen 3, and even Zen 2 cpu cores, and using RDNA3, RDNA2, and even Vega graphics! An Acer with a Ryzen 7000 series chip could easily have the same or older cpu core or graphics arch, as the Zen 3+ and RDNA2 in Ryzen 6800U.
What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. I imagine you can match their specs for this laptop at cheaper prices.
Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared to other PC building companies?
I purchased a Thelio Mira awhile back and have been happier with it than any other PC/laptop I've owned before.
The big value add that System76 is having a Linux desktop that is guaranteed to just work out of the box the same way you would expect and Apple machine to work out of the box. In fact, I've probably had less issues with this machine out of the box than any new macbooks I've had in the past few years.
I've built plenty of my own PCs before and run linux as my primary desktop multiple times, and my Thelio is a wildly better experience than in the past. The build quality is excellent and for the first time I can really use Linux as my primary desktop with no problems.
Building a PC yourself is always going to be cheaper, and for many people that's the preferred path anyway. The point I'm at in my life I would much rather pay a premium to not have to worry about that at all (especially when it comes to hardware on linux).
If anyone is look for a "just works" linux PC, I've found system76 to be a great experience.
Got a System76 laptop last year because I was sick of Windows and Mac nonsense (if my OS is going to suck, I want it to suck on my terms). The last time I tried desktop Linux was over ten years prior and I was prepared for a hell of obscure configuration and instability, but pleasantly it all Just Works. If you want a full-fledged Linux-based laptop that works out-of-the-box, I can recommend it.
You can. Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it. While I could, I just didn't want to spend the time on it, plus setting up some drivers here and there. Thats the value prop. I got one for home use, (Oryx pro with Nvidia) 4 years ago. It worked well enough and had so few issues I got one for work.
you are paying for convenience, support the project, and have system that is tested for the ground up and configured by the manufacturer, and branding.
I don't feel that is so great, some other laptops and pc in the linux ecosystem are great also, but this is their monetization scheme, high price for niche products.
I don't think they can sell for lower price and compete whit companies who doesn't expend the money in developing the distribution, wm, etc.
They spend a lot of that money supporting upstream contributions, maintaining a first-class Linux experience, providing real support, and otherwise putting their money where their mouth is.
Compare to almost literally any other laptop, where uttering the word "linux" gets you nothing more than a voided warranty and a strong YOYOMF, and some fraction of customers will see value in System76's approach.
Pixel for pixel, watt for watt, you could do better elsewhere. But only with a Windows preload and jumping through hoops if you ever have a hardware failure and have to reinstall the preload to run some awful diagnostics before getting an RMA, for instance. Awful experiences like that really take away from the "value" of a cheaper machine, if your time is worth money, as I suspect it is.
lhl|3 years ago
* One of the biggest selling points of Ryzen 6000 is the chip's USB4 support, but looks like the Pangolin won't have it. It also only has 1 USB-C port, which is a bit of a headscratcher in 2023. Does it support PD even? (Not mentioned)
* 16:9 FHD display (no brightness specified) - high refresh is nice, but again, weird that it's not 16:10 in 2023 and IMO, QHD would be better for a 15-16" display.
* soldered memory (32GB at least)
* Numpad keyboard. This will be a positive for some, but I'm in the centered keyboard camp
* Only a 70Wh battery and still not so light (1.8kg)
While it's running an older chip, if you're not going to have USB4/TB4, and the points I listed are important, I think the Tuxedo Pulse 15 Gen2 is still a better 15" option atm (5700U chip, but lighter, bigger battery, better (still 16:9) display, Ethernet, SODIMM slots). There are some Ubuntu certified ThinkPads that are an option too (they have Ryzen 6000U chips but also no USB4), although almost all the models are w/ soldered RAM on ThinkPads now, which is a bummer.
If you want USB4 on AMD, the best (Linux friendly) options right now are probably the Asus G14 GA402 or a ThinkPad Z16. The HP EliteBook G9s are an option as well, although you need Linux 6.0+ to fix a broken HP BIOS update (HP support is also aggressively indifferent to Linux users) and I've seen lots of complaints about the fan curve and the SureView displays so I'm hesitant to recommend it...
doublepg23|3 years ago
INTPenis|3 years ago
It's been a struggle to find a 1440 AMD laptop, I have one that I'm happy with for travel. (Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Carbon Gen 6)
I also don't want it to be too big, for travel, so numpad is out for me.
The Slim 7 feels like a toy, but it's actually just very, very light, and made of plastic. It creeks, yes, but it's very, very light. This is more important to me when it's on my back, than being out of metal.
kitsunesoba|3 years ago
I'm also not into numpads on laptops. Not that they aren't useful sometimes, but the they push the alpha cluster and trackpad off-center which is uncomfortable to type on which is hard to justify with how little I personally need one — a standalone numpad that I pull out of a drawer during tax season or whenever makes a lot more sense. Ultimately I think 15"+ laptops should offer keyboard options with and without numpads.
Nullabillity|3 years ago
p1necone|3 years ago
andreareina|3 years ago
ysleepy|3 years ago
I have the G2 with the 5850U and it performs very well.
Night_Thastus|3 years ago
21:9 is the popular ultra-widescreen option. 16:9 is the popular regular option. Acting like 16:10 is the direction the industry is going is just bizarre.
CoastalCoder|3 years ago
I read it to be about people who bought AMD-only laptops from System76, needing to return them to System76 for some reason.
BillinghamJ|3 years ago
AdmiralAsshat|3 years ago
rendaw|3 years ago
lost_tourist|3 years ago
mikelward|3 years ago
m463|3 years ago
justajot|3 years ago
malkia|3 years ago
lwhi|3 years ago
E.g. "System76 AMD-Only Laptop, Returns"
driverdan|3 years ago
yoyohello13|3 years ago
coder543|3 years ago
But, I agree that a higher resolution would be nice, and if I'm being completely honest... I would want OLED. Tons of affordable OLED laptops have come to market over the past year.
vehemenz|3 years ago
0xCMP|3 years ago
acomjean|3 years ago
I really like AMD on the notebook. Compared to my 4 year old Oryx pro (intel 8th gen), which had poor battery life (esp when using the Nvidia graphics) and required a reboot initially if I wanted to switch to intel graphics. This one is much nicer, but it won't game nearly as well as one with dedicated graphics.
karmakaze|3 years ago
StillBored|3 years ago
So, please, its hard to call your product "premium" if its screen is worse than a bottom of the barrel tablet.
inetknght|3 years ago
I like 16x9. What do you want instead?
sylens|3 years ago
greyw|3 years ago
JasonFruit|3 years ago
droptablemain|3 years ago
dfghjkjhg|3 years ago
since 13months ago, HP sells a elite book G9 for 2k, which have the best combo configuration at, gasp, wallmart for 800... eigth hundred dollars.
same cpu, but PRO version. metal and plastic body. scissor waterproof keyboard. usb c charging (system76 is barrel), 2x sodimm ram slots (system76 is soldered, note thay amd zen3+ pro mighty allow ECC ram in a laptop for the first time! so i want slots), the battery have 18Wh less, but it is also 20pct ligther. and all hardware is fully supported with 5.8+ kernel.
I always try to buy from linux-first-vendors, but I still deal with a librem13 that have sevral keys fail on their keyboard and support is ghosting me. even had to super-glue the hinge latelly. so awful :(
vladvasiliu|3 years ago
I have the older g8. It worked perfectly out of the box on linux since new. Recently, windows started being able to use the webcam, too.
But beware the screen. It's absurdly bad. I'd say it's okish for $800. For 2000, it's a bad joke. Some models only have 6-bit screens (at least those have an excuse for being horrible).
The fan is sometimes noisy, too. It seems like it's somewhat off-balance, ever since it was new.
tssva|3 years ago
If anyone from System76 is here, I am currently looking for a new laptop and will not be buying a System76 laptop based entirely upon the giant logo on them. I don't want to put a skin, a cover or stickers over my laptop. My preference would be no logo at all but that seems to be impossible. If you are compelled to use me for free advertising post purchase, at least make it somewhat discreet.
msla|3 years ago
This Reddit thread seems to agree with me that the stickers can be removed, albeit about a different model:
https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/ge0mqz/lemur_pro_...
Looks like it has the same kind of lettering as mine, though.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
emaro|3 years ago
Symmetry|3 years ago
accrual|3 years ago
uni_rule|3 years ago
linhns|3 years ago
acomjean|3 years ago
_caveman|3 years ago
goodcjw2|3 years ago
agdasdigonio|3 years ago
A bulletproof, "Just Works" Linux laptop would have its place even with System76's other problems. But they trail behind the likes of Lenovo even on their supposed strong suit.
renewiltord|3 years ago
I'm using a Macbook personally, but this stuff is so sick. To be honest, I never really imagined the future as using Windows + Linux + MacOS without thinking that much about the platform, but about the only thing that sticks out to me is that the command line on Windows is rubbish. Otherwise, it feels very naturally normal to me as I switch between platforms. The web has really changed things.
Only thing that surprises me are the screens. I thought the high res screens like in the Macbook were commonplace now.
mixmastamyk|3 years ago
I like yori when in a DOS mood.
piinbinary|3 years ago
schaefer|3 years ago
When I look at AMD's new mobile lineup for 2023, and I didn't notice anything "new" in the U-series power profile (15 watts tdp). I'd be more than happy with a 6800U in linux friendly packaging.
Let me know if you think there's a specific 7000 series chip I've overlooked.
P.S: about the system 76 teaser itself, the static picture used as a "before and after" comparison for 60hz display vs 144 hz display is comedic gold.
nicolaslem|3 years ago
Oh and then be ready for months of firmware and kernel patches until the chip is actually usable as a daily driver on Linux.
Getting a 6000 series CPU now that the kinks have been ironed out is not a bad idea.
lhl|3 years ago
buster3000|3 years ago
Come on...
bboygravity|3 years ago
benlivengood|3 years ago
manifoldgeo|3 years ago
I filed a support ticket asking for help, and they told me they only support Ubuntu and Pop. On one hand, I understand having service desk limits, but their garbage UEFI and lack of support left me no choice but to return the laptop. In fact, I thought this article was going to be about people returning laptops to System76!
I really hope they get their game together and make a pre-boot system that can handle non-Ububtu stuff easily. The previous System76 I had was able to handle a Debian install just fine.
whydid|3 years ago
I agree it's frustrating they don't support booting other operating systems, but please be fair or provide some more evidence before you call some software "garbage"
jklinger410|3 years ago
I won't be replacing my Galago Pro with another System76 product when that day finally comes.
Finnucane|3 years ago
RosanaAnaDana|3 years ago
virtualritz|3 years ago
There is excellent support for all hardware on Linux (and even a ICC profile) in [2]. I run System76's pop!_OS on it. Everything works dandy. The machine is a beast.
It has a 3.2k (!) res screen. Only 400nits but I find that's plenty for the lighting conditions I use it under. The case is milled from dark alluminum and is frequently mistaken for a macbook. The build quality is top.
It's a Ryzen 6800H APU with built in Radeon and an NVIDIA GTX2050. It has 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD.
It's the first non-mac I bought in a decade after getting disappointed with macOS in recent years.
The only thing that isn't on par is the touchpad on Linux. On Windows it's very close so this is definitely a config issue. I may just have to spend some time with settings.
[1] https://www.xiaomihome.global/xiaomi-laptops/xiaomi-redmiboo...
[2] https://github.com/vrolife/modern_laptop
robolion|3 years ago
ZeroCool2u|3 years ago
IronWolve|3 years ago
toast0|3 years ago
azangru|3 years ago
sliken|3 years ago
trelane|3 years ago
mulmen|3 years ago
I'm ready to make the leap into a Linux desktop environment just for the sake of stability but I want well supported hardware. Is System 76 a good option? The advice that makes sense to me is to "use what the devs use". Does an AMD-only System 76 check that box?
hojjat12000|3 years ago
neither_color|3 years ago
snvzz|3 years ago
It's a Zen3+ with embedded RDNA2 graphics.
Not the state of the art as of CES announcements, but I'd happily get a laptop with one of these if I needed a laptop right now.
It's good System76 is offering such an option, because it makes them a candidate.
I would not currently consider a laptop that's based on Intel or NVIDIA hardware, due to vastly inferior performance/watt and lack of open documentation, respectively.
lushdogg|3 years ago
System76 if you here can you switch chassis :) ?
snarg|3 years ago
I'm never, ever buying a laptop with full-height horizontal keys but half-height vertical keys.
FpUser|3 years ago
_odey|3 years ago
Keyboard wise it's great! a 15 inch laptop without a numpad is a waste of potential, as a numpad is immensely helpful when doing any sort of finance work. I definitely would not buy a laptop this big without one. Still some more information non the keyboard layouts available would be nice.
All perfect here! I'm assuming this is the same single USBC that they mentioned above. Is it DisplayPort 1.4, or 2.0? This is their biggest flaw. If you look at the chassis, you will see, the speakers point DOWNWARD. Speakers are supposed to point towards the listener, not away from them. Also, from previously owning multiple Clevo laptops that I've bought for work purposes, sound quality is so bad, you can simply assume you have no speakers as you'll be using headphones or a conference speaker. If you buy this thinking you'll be able to enjoy any kind of video/movie out of working hours without purchasing and carrying extra peripherals you will be extremely frustrated and disappointed. Low maximum volume, poor quality sound, no base, and pointing away from you; every flaw imaginable. More that 4 people in a conference room and wanting to dial in from one laptop to share? Forget about it, you will be embarrassed to even try as the combination of laptop's built-in speakers and microphone quality will make the whole experience terrible. This is an area where macbooks excel, great speakers and great microphone, and that's why people love them so much, you can actually enjoy the audio interaction. There is no reason for non macbook laptops to be this bad at audio. All they have to do is copy macbooks, like they eventually do anyway... just put in better speakers and microphone, it's that easy. Cost wise it's not an issue either since a machine like this is going to cost in the same ballpark as a macbook anyway, why be cheap on something so insignificant for the overall price but so important for the user experience? A camera cover is better than a camera kill switch in my opinion, good to have at least I guess. Why not 99Wh? (the maximum allowed at airports) This is not a macbook, it's a beefy, thick laptop no matter how you look at it, why not outfit it properly?Overall: at least it's guaranteed to run Linux... but from the points I raised above I guess you can see there is no point for me to get excited about this model in particular. Price wise it's going to be over the "expensive" threshold anyway, so might as well find something that ticks most checkboxes. Unless, of course I'm desperate for a new machine, in which case I could settle for this for a while.
I'm more hopeful for this vendor instead for higher quality devices: https://starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter
kccqzy|3 years ago
whalesalad|3 years ago
x3n0ph3n3|3 years ago
Finally bit the bullet on got a Macbook Pro 14" instead...
vetrom|3 years ago
RosanaAnaDana|3 years ago
I don't really care if they are going team red again. I'll be trying a different manufacturer next time.
lost_tourist|3 years ago
vouaobrasil|3 years ago
gjmacd|3 years ago
I can't understand why I can't get a reasonably good priced laptop with just Linux that doesn't match the video resolution of a MBP.
vladvasiliu|3 years ago
But the build quality is uniformly worse. And the screen... it's an atrocity. You don't have to compare it to an MBP (I only have an old 2013 one, and it still wipes the floor with it). Even compared to an older XPS (7th gen intel), it's horrible.
indigodaddy|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
woile|3 years ago
umvi|3 years ago
All this to say that if you care about Linux and only Linux, System76 could be a good choice. But if you need to use Windows at all, I would steer clear of S76 until their Windows support is a little better (also YMMV - I've just had so many issues with Windows on a galp5, but that might not be the case with other models).
Beltalowda|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
Mikeb85|3 years ago
Even a budget brand like Acer is releasing Ryzen 7000 chipsets and pairing it with higher resolution OLED screens, probably will be cheaper as well...
https://www.acer.com/ca-en/laptops/swift/swift-go-14-amd
ploxiln|3 years ago
https://www.anandtech.com/show/18718/amd-2023-ryzen-mobile-7...
(and honestly, Zen 3 and RDNA 2 are damn good anyway)
teaearlgraycold|3 years ago
ciupicri|3 years ago
> Pick your perfect Swift Go 14 AMD
> Search for your Swift Go 14 AMD by features or browse the products below.
> Results: 0
12311231231|3 years ago
[deleted]
ruined|3 years ago
jesuscript|3 years ago
time_to_smile|3 years ago
I purchased a Thelio Mira awhile back and have been happier with it than any other PC/laptop I've owned before.
The big value add that System76 is having a Linux desktop that is guaranteed to just work out of the box the same way you would expect and Apple machine to work out of the box. In fact, I've probably had less issues with this machine out of the box than any new macbooks I've had in the past few years.
I've built plenty of my own PCs before and run linux as my primary desktop multiple times, and my Thelio is a wildly better experience than in the past. The build quality is excellent and for the first time I can really use Linux as my primary desktop with no problems.
Building a PC yourself is always going to be cheaper, and for many people that's the preferred path anyway. The point I'm at in my life I would much rather pay a premium to not have to worry about that at all (especially when it comes to hardware on linux).
If anyone is look for a "just works" linux PC, I've found system76 to be a great experience.
kibwen|3 years ago
acomjean|3 years ago
imachine1980_|3 years ago
inetknght|3 years ago
Try customizing an Apple product. It's also wildly overpriced.
System76 provides top-tier support. That alone is expensive.
myself248|3 years ago
Compare to almost literally any other laptop, where uttering the word "linux" gets you nothing more than a voided warranty and a strong YOYOMF, and some fraction of customers will see value in System76's approach.
Pixel for pixel, watt for watt, you could do better elsewhere. But only with a Windows preload and jumping through hoops if you ever have a hardware failure and have to reinstall the preload to run some awful diagnostics before getting an RMA, for instance. Awful experiences like that really take away from the "value" of a cheaper machine, if your time is worth money, as I suspect it is.
quasarj|3 years ago
inetknght|3 years ago
Excuse me?! I will never buy a laptop without a numpad! I use numpads every day!
The better question is why is anyone still squeezing a useless touchpad onto laptops???
maxk42|3 years ago
RosanaAnaDana|3 years ago
12311231231|3 years ago
[deleted]