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Antique Roman Dishes – Collection (1993)

63 points| benbreen | 3 years ago |cs.cmu.edu | reply

25 comments

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[+] giardia|3 years ago|reply
Too bad I can't pick up any silphium or liquamen at the grocery store. Silphium is thought to be extinct and the exact taste and method for producing liquamen is still debated -- though we know it was some sort of fish sauce.
[+] DonaldFisk|3 years ago|reply
Asafoetida was substituted by the Romans when their supply of African laser (silphium) became unavailable. Liquamen, or at least something very close, can be purchased at oriental foodstores (look for nuoc mam or nan pla). There's even a modern Italian version called colatura.
[+] giraffe_lady|3 years ago|reply
It's not that unknown. The specific herbs and flavorings probably varied over time and place and those details are lost. But it was certainly a whole-fish amino sauce using the digestive enzymes of the fish themselves, and salt to prevent spoilage. Asian fish sauces are likely a decent substitute.

Plus garums are making a comeback and are already quietly being produced and used in some high end kitchens, based on work published by noma, using koji proteases to speed up the process. You can't quite buy them at the grocery store, and historical authenticity to roman recipes isn't the goal of anyone I know. But there is garum out there if you really really want it.

[+] at_a_remove|3 years ago|reply
It isn't available yet, but they rediscovered what appears to be silphium in 2022. It checks all the boxes. It's a slow-growing plant, but they have started trying to propagate it.
[+] gattilorenz|3 years ago|reply
Fun fact, "liquame" in italian means "liquid manure".

Maybe that's why we prefer to refer to the sauce as "garum" (although it's still in doubt whether garum and liquamen are actually the same sauce)...

[+] donw|3 years ago|reply
There’s a YouTube series where an amateur cook re-creates recipes from various historical periods. Tasting History with Max Miller is definitely worth a watch: https://m.youtube.com/@TastingHistory/videos

He’s very up-front about the liberties that he has to take with historical recipes, as often times they don’t include things like quantities.

He also covers substitutions, as a number of ingredients are simply impossible to come by in the modern era.

[+] marginalia_nu|3 years ago|reply
I enjoy the notion of a kind of Roman burger. I hear they call the quarterpounder with cheese a REGIVS CVM CAESVS.
[+] thaumasiotes|3 years ago|reply
> I hear they call the quarterpounder with cheese a REGIVS CVM CAESVS.

CVM CASEO.

Though I don't know to what degree it would make sense to translate an English with-phrase using the Latin preposition "with". A quick check of the dictionary suggests you might want something more like REGIVS CASEARIVS.

Fun fact: the Spanish word quesadilla means "cheesed [thing]". The components of the word are ques- [cheese] -ad- [passive participial ending, like the -en of taken] -ill- [diminutive form, like using doggie instead of dog] -a [feminine ending]. It seems to be common to create food words from participles like this; enchilada has the same form ["chile-ed"].

[+] gigel82|3 years ago|reply
Interesting there's only one recipe with (wheat) flour, whereas today's desserts almost always include flour, plus copious amounts of sugars (but processed sugar didn't exist until the 10th century, so that part is understandable).
[+] tinsmith|3 years ago|reply
This is fun, really appreciate the share. My son is heading to Rome to study as he wraps up culinary school, and he loves food history. I'm always looking for things to learn about with him.
[+] paulkrush|3 years ago|reply
Thu, 22 Jul 93: Wow, What is the oldest page out there with images?
[+] raldi|3 years ago|reply
That’s not necessarily the date it was published on the web. It looks to me like it was pasted there from Usenet or a mailing list.
[+] jnwatson|3 years ago|reply
I was just thinking that this would have been useful in high school JCL had I had access to WWW in 1993.
[+] layer8|3 years ago|reply
Where do you see images?