It's remarkable that I so often lapse in my meditation practice when it's such a short time commitment and so consistently improves my mood. I tell myself that morning yoga is enough or a walking meditation while taking the dog out is enough - I do those every day without fail. But they're not the same as seated breath work.
Why do other mood improvement habits seem more approachable, like making a cup of tea or exercise or a shower, while sitting and breathing seems harder?
For me during meditation, many thoughts arise. Often they are things I am troubled or anxious about. If I am doing something else, I have a ready-made distraction from those thoughts. But if I'm just sitting, I actually have to be present for them. It's much harder to build a habit where the short-term payoff is negative.
You might try making it part of a broader routine. Lately (and unusually for me) I've been struggling with sleep. So I've explicitly adopted a bedtime routine that gets me to wind down. As part of that, I light a big candle when I start the routine. Then the last thing I do before blowing out the candle getting into bed is to sit down by the candle and use it as a medication focus. This way I feel like I'm getting the sitting for "free" in that I don't have to expend any willpower to make it happen; there are other positive associations that serve as the reward.
http://files.howtolivewiki.com/.meditation_2015/transcripts/... This came out of an attempt to strip the core meditation techniques down to completely remove the mysticism, and adjust the practice cycle for long-term solo practitioners who are agnostic or atheist and can't lean on concepts like "The Buddha" or "Lord Shiva" (although I myself am Hindu.)
The critical innovation is doing ten minute rounds of different practices, so no practice is held for very long. This seems to help a ton with "mind wanders" and surprisingly doesn't seem to impair overall progress at all. If anything the rotation of practices seems to improve overall concentration and keeps people from hallucinating because they've been staring at a blank wall for six hours!
I've heard meditation described as "motionless ju-jitsu with yourself". In the absence of any obstacle, the only opponent is you, but by definition you are equal in strength to yourself. So meditation can devolve into a heated evenly-matched contest of wills, which is extremely draining.
The stillness, I think. With adhd, that's my challenge anyway. The mind does not shut off, and 5 minutes can feel like forever. Even thinking about it makes me squirm. But I took a yoga class once that did breathwork, and with guidance, I found the ability to focus my entire attention on my breath; the action and the feeling of it.
I find this problem with the vast majority of practices, and annoying, particularly with those that work. If I read a book or listen to a podcast that touches on the practice I'll pick it back up, then it will gradually fade out over time.
This is true even of really low-effort things, like box breathing, or drinking a glass of cold water on waking.
I think habits are just hard to maintain as an individual, and historically we've leaned on communities to keep us on-track. The best workaround I've found is to subscribe to podcasts that regularly touch on the practices to keep them within my awareness, but that's far from perfect.
Concentration meditation. I used to do it as much as possible. Every day. Sometimes 2, 3, 6 times. I was kinda nuts. But my practice was strong.
Vipassana + concentration. My practice was extremely erratic.
Vipassana. Just vipassana. That's what I do now. My practice is very consistent. Haven't missed a day in a decade.
I think it's because vipassana is more compatible with the rest of my life than concentration. So there's no big transition. I'm basically doing vipassana, in varying degrees, all the time.
>Why do other mood improvement habits seem more approachable, like making a cup of tea or exercise or a shower, while sitting and breathing seems harder?
The Feedback loop is longer and impact more subtle so you don't correlate the effects with the action as strongly
I don't meditate but I have learned to control and suppress hiccups and there may be a connection.
The way I do it is still very relaxed and focus on a point that is somewhere in front of my forehead, and have very regular, simple breathing, without forcing it. It takes less than a minute of this for the hiccup to go away. I think the trick is to think about nothing instead of thinking about the hiccup.
When you say OM (Aum) out loud properly you do controlled breathing.
Here is the way I was taught.
1. relax.
2. deep inhale.
3. pause (1 count)
4. say 'O' (2 or 3 counts, you can stretch it further if you can). Here you are basically exhaling through mouth.
5. slowly transition from 'O' to 'M'. for a brief period in the transition try to say 'O' nasally. might need a bit of practice but basically you are slowly transitioning from exhaling via mouth to exhaling via nose.
6. as you completely switch to 'M' your mouth is shut and you are totally exhaling via nose. Stretch 'M' as long as you can.
7. repeat this cycle. Once you find the rhythm its quite mentally relaxing.
The cyclic breathing required by swimming has a large overlap with the breathing techniques described in this study, and I suspect it has a lot to do with how much of a mental health improvement it is for me.
Coupled with the full body muscle engagement and cardiovascular training that comes along with it, it seems like the perfect exercise for those that have access to a pool.
I just started swimming with a local Masters group a few months ago and can definitely notice a difference in my mood if I miss a couple practices. I thought it was just my imagination but didn’t even think about the breath aspect of it.
Andrew Huberman mentions a similar method where controlled short bursts of cyclic breathing can effect (verb effect, not grammatical error for affect) dopamine release.
The article briefly mentions "diaphragmatic breathing" without going into it, but it's one of the best ways to do breathing exercises in a slow, controlled and relaxing manner while sitting upright at a desk. It's also a part of the training for vocalists, and that a good source on how-to guides, e.g.
> "It is also important to note that, in voice pedagogy, 'breathing from the diaphragm' and 'breathing from the belly' are not viewed as being synonymous. The breath support technique that is widely referred to as 'diaphragmatic breathing', (when correctly executed), should not be confused with 'belly breathing'. Unlike 'belly breathing', 'breathing from the diaphragm' involves no pushing or forceful expulsion of air, and is the natural, correct, safe, gentle, internationally accepted method of supporting the singing tone. In diaphragmatic breathing, the tone rides on a minimal and steady stream of air, which brings stability and consistency to the tone."
I found that doing breathing exercises in isolation were very boring and I couldn't get myself to care. But using structured breathing while exercising made it way more enjoyable. Having physical cues for the different steps helped make it more of a measurable skill where I notice improvements over time.
Musicians and athletes practice structured breathing as a way of building cardio and increasing lung capacity. Your lungs don't change, you just learn to control airflow better. The way "ancient traditions" are frequently framed makes me avoid and treat them like pseudoscience. Framing it from the persepctive of an athlete helped me evaluate it more seriously. Mindful meditation is beneficial but completely indepedent from breathing exercises and you don't need the former to get benefits from the latter.
I am not arguing the value or validity of "ancient techniques", I am sharing my initial bias when I was first introduced to pranayama, and how it's taught as if it exists in isolation. This post doesn't mention sports or singing/musicians once.
There's many techniques but box breathing where you take extra air in after you feel like your lungs are full, and a longer period exhaling than inhaling, is the primary technique I was taught for marching band/trombone. The "cyclic sighing" described in the paper, but with a longer inhale and exhale. We did, at ~80 bpm, 4 counts for inhale, 4 counts of holding, and 8 counts of exhale, with whatever extra "sip" of air we could manage to inhale during the hold. If you're not used to breathing exercises, doing 4+4+8 a few times can leave you light headed. It's normal to cough from the extra sip of air.
The swimming pools in my area of the world all have a 'cold tub' with water ranging in temperature from 6-10°C. On average I visit the pools roughly 2-3x per week and always spend around ~12 minutes (in 4 minute chunks) in the 'cold tub' doing controlled breathing.
That, and plunging and holding my face in the cold water to try to trigger the mammalian diving response, has really had a positive effect on me (ofcourse only n=1).
Think I'll add 5 minutes of these breathing practices to my routine as well.
Its based on solid research - test groups that hum in the specific frequency were found to have increased their nitric oxide production a dozen or more times. Whereas control groups and groups that did the meditation in another frequency either did not produce any different amount or comparably low amounts.
Sometimes I hit my rowing machine really hard to try beat a previous record, so hard that I really feel like I've "cooked myself", I feel like I need to breathe to the point where I have to remove my ear buds to get more air or else it kind of feels like I could suffocate :) It's a brutal machine. I'm now fitter and rarely get that "gassed" even when I push myself.
It's such hard work that I decided to stop drinking for a year to make it more tolerable to exercise with the rowing machine.
One of my friends tried to beat my time on the rower and was so sore for 3 nights, he had nightmares about the rower ha.
Anyway, it obviously made me question should I be doing more for my body, including breathing exercises, but what this kind of thing also makes me really think about is how stupid air pollution is. What it would feel like not to have access to fresh clean air and how bad it would be to be suffocating. What a privilege it is to be able to breathe and it makes me feel like I want to go plant trees.
Has anyone else had similar thoughts during exercise / breathe training? If anything I think it's good to become aware of the breathe and air for this reason alone, it would make the world a better place.
I enjoy and use this breathing technique but I haven't ever practiced or cared about mindful meditation. In my experience doing breathing exercises while doing something physical helps me way more than doing it while sitting. The most interesting result from this study was the change in the spread for HRV.
I personally found that having physical markers for when to breathe in and out made it a lot easier to understand and practice. Tying yoga poses to the amount of time I hold air made is easier to track my improvements too. I imagine swimming similarly allows a more structured way to practice cyclic breathing. I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing. Nothing has improved my cardio as much as erg + controlled breathing, I use pretty short intervals.
Another place cyclic breathing was crucial was when I did marching band. I played trombone so it was mandatory that I have athletic lung capacity. I was told that the exercises aren't making your lungs bigger, you're getting used to having your lungs stay expanded for longer.
The most important thing was the extra breath you take after you feel like your lungs are completely full. Everyone coughs when you take in that extra bit of air after breathing in deeply, in the beginning. There's plastic ball valve things you can buy to observe your breathing but I never personally saw it as useful. A relative was given something similar after a heart attack in order to monitor lung strength during recovery.
It's also pretty common to recommend some type of cyclic breathing when handling anxiety. It helps control and lower the physical symptoms of anxiety like rapid heart rate.
Looking up box/cyclic breathing guides for athletes or music students might help, if you are looking for more structure guides. The cyclic breathing in this study is not the same as circular breathing.
> The most interesting result from this study was the change in the spread for HRV.
Did your HRV increase, indicating better health? How are you measuring it?
> I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing.
Can you explain more? Search results for "cyclic breathing" return many varied results. Are you performing it while during the row, or in preparation for it? I can get 2k meters under 8 minutes, but I'm gasping at the end.
I've taught most of my clients breathing exercises for the past 5-6 years. It's unnecessary to take it to the level of a formal pranayama practice to make fairly significant differences in physiological state, from which most everything else derives.
The "coherent breathing" work that popped up sometime in the last ~15 years is pretty interesting, too.
I like that they described how each method is performed. The mindful meditation method was a bit different from what I've used, but something I can adopt.
So cyclic sighing can replace mindful meditation, except that it requires more use to reap the benefits.
So now Cyclic Sighing, Mindful Meditation and Binaural Beats are techniques I can call upon in times of stress.
> Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they preferred, to lie down, and then to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to close their eyes and to start breathing while focusing their mental attention on their forehead region between their two eyes. They were told that if their focus drifted from that location to re-recenter their attention by focusing back first on their breath and then on the forehead region between their eyes. They were told that as thoughts arise, to recognize that as normal, refocus their attention back to their forehead region and to continue the practice until time has elapsed.
Is this a legit expression of mindfulness meditation? It lacks any sort of breath modification.
I have a bad habit of holding my breath for a long time. I don't do it on purpose, sometimes when I'm super focused I just notice I haven't taken a breathe in a while. Its kind of alarming tbh when it happens, not sure if maybe this will help.
It’s good to see this ‘validated’, but anyone who has actually tried these types of practices knows how effective they can be, there’s absolutely no doubt about any of this stuff. And why should there be? the Indians figure this stuff out like 1000 years ago or more and have been writing it down and telling people about it and what? cause we’re Western science we’re just not gonna fucking believe that? It’s ridiculous. Sort of like seeing a paper in physical review letters: class M stellar entity periodically illuminates US east coast from distance of one AU, and period of 24 hours. tell me something I fucking don’t know
Welcome to science, where we actually reproduce results and don't just yell "everybody knows". (Since you are fond of the Indian approach, though, may I suggest you inspect your anger?)
And yes, it's fairly basic stuff - but it's also laying the foundation for ongoing studies. And it's not like it's ignoring ancient practices, they're specifically referenced.
While we're on "how does this study help in any way", it's also worth calling out that it has conclusively shown that you can remotely administer intervention and monitor the physiological response. Yes, again, a small thing, but important going forward.
And finally, this study was intended as an exploratory study - what can we find when we look here. And it will likely lead to a clinical trial. Yes, more reconfirmation of "what we've always known", but in a way that makes it more likely it finds entrance into the Western medicine canon. That's a huge step forward, because it'll move it from the easy dismissal of "maybe just woo" to "proven practice", and so gives a chance to reduce the number of pharmacological interventions doctors opt for.
I've actually tried these types of practices, and they make me feel like I've used a recreational inhalant. Without the paper I'd have assumed giving yourself mild hypoxia just gave you euphoria and dizziness, and other positive effects were confirmation bias.
A lot of breath work is very specific to the individual. Guides, how-tos, videos can often make people more anxious because their body is behaving slightly differently than their "source".
Surprisingly, you don't need to learn it as much as you just need to do it and think about how your body feels as you do it.
When you exhale, just exhale like you were just relieved of something horrible... or like you're saying "whewwwwwwwwww" as in "whewww, that's a relief".
Don't worry about how many seconds it was, don't really count unless you like to, just breath and feel the feelings.
When you do that a few times, especially after a slow inhale... it starts to feel really good, really natural, and in a weird way when you think it's going to work and think it's going to feel good, it actually ends up feeling good and relieving stress.
This whole thread has a lot of info in it, but the main point is this - we suck at breathing, don't breathe properly and are remarkably easily knocked out the "calm awareness" mode.
It's sometimes best to work at this other way around, like with anger management, e.g. don't try to improve your breathing, but try to be more concious of when your breathing and mental state go to sh*.
This is an extremely weak study that basically launders Huberman's "mini interventionism" and abuses west coast's fascination with what is mostly "breath-themed magic". The idea of hyperregulation of breath is a cousin of hyperregulation of dietary intake, which is a western "top-down"ism, latter of which induced more disordered eating than it achieved/preserved health.
Regarding the criticisms of this study;
Firstly, the small sample size is based on volunteers, so folks already believed there was going to be a payoff from something that is 75% breathwork.
Secondly, there is no "sham intervention" class to counter the placebo effects from this.
Thirdly, their mindfulness instruction is atypical; it should have been passive focus on breath rather than a visual/somatic cue on the forehead to be comperable with breath work vs breath focus.
Finally, their exclusion criteria makes it too restricted;
> For health and safety reasons, we excluded those with self-reported moderate to severe psychiatric or medical conditions that could be exacerbated by study participation, such as heart disease, glaucoma, history of seizures, pregnancy, psychosis, suicidality, bipolar disorder, or substance use disorders.
I find it annoying that the list is not exhaustive but we could reasonably assume they also had to exclude moderate and above depression and anxiety disorders, not to mention panic disorder[1]. Anxious folks are particularly sensitive to breathwork, and even 10% of their "healthy" population reported anxiety as a result of these practices (highest ingroup rate is 17%, in the favorite "sighing" group)
Besides the anxiety inducing vs reducing effect of all breathwork had more variance than the mindfulness intervention, which puts into question whether the cost/benefit of the intervention (not to mention it's wide scale applicability) is sufficient.
What Huberman is popular for is known as a "nutrientism" of sorts; as in assemble vitamins a, b, c..., this and that macronutrient plus this and that micronutrient and you will have a full nutritional profile. Not saying he is all bs at all, e.g his circadian light stuff is solid, but more often than not after the 50th episode these turn into bite sized oversold interventions mostly as an illusion of "doing something good for me so that I don't have to do anything else".
As a final note, mindfulness meditation traditionally has never been an emotion regulation tool, it is an education tool as a part of wisdom traditions, none of which had "good affect in one month" as the primary metric of their success.
[1] The panic disorder population is even more interesting. 50% of the panic disordered people do not suffer from hyperventilatory or otherwise respiratory phenomena. Not only that, the hyperventilators are suffering from hypocapnia, as in a drop in CO2 and not O2, which is completely opposite to Huberman's "dumping CO2 and therefore relaxing" magic/logic.
Then it is surprising that a reasonably robust journal like Cell Reports Medicine published it (presumably after peer review), and so many Stanford postdocs and associate professors put their name on it
Regarding the "cyclic sighing" technique (called "Physiological sighing" in the graphic):
I have been doing it for a couple of years without knowing it was a thing. I have studied common Pranayama techniques, and I stumbled upon it via trial and error. I do it because I find it anxiety-reducing. I used to refer to it internally as "double inhale breathing".
After reading the OP article, and noting that they referred to "Yogic breathing", I decided to do a little research and discovered that this technique is called "Dirga Pranayama" or "three part breathing". The authors should have mentioned it in their article.
Read "Altered Traits" - two western scientists trying to pump up meditation self-report that they can't find any tangible benefits and resort to BP control meditation because they can't even reduce their BP, let alone anything else. "Anxiety and mood" are pretty subjective. Just sitting there drops pulse too.
1 point by dragonsh 3 minutes ago | root | parent | next | edit | delete [–]
I follow these simple rules for breathing
1. Breathe to stomach not chest.
2. Breathe by nose (unless swimming or underwater).
3. Inhalation time and exhalation time should be equal and gap between inhalation and exhalation should be sum of it. If it takes x seconds to inhale exhalation should begin after 2x seconds and should finish in x seconds
Retention (2x) = inhalation time (x) + exhalation time (x).
All the pranayam and yogic techniques try to make it natural to have this pattern and symmetry in our breathing process.
The one that works is the one that people do without special training: sighing*. There had to be some reason why people sigh.
* Yes, this is an odd sort of sighing, but it isn't that different from spontaneous sighing. And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other reason.
> And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other reason.
It's common for people to hyperventilate in the midst of a panic attack, and the common advice I've seen is to encourage a panicked person to take deep breaths. Strange to see it as a consideration for beneficial effects. As a kid I'd hyperventilate to feel dizzy because it was fun (oops was I getting high?)
I use the box breathing technique for relaxation and de-stress. 4 seconds breathe in, 4 seconds hold, 4 seconds breathe out, 4 seconds hold. Then repeat. It’s great for calming the fight or flight response in me.
> Both mindfulness meditation and breathwork groups showed significant reductions in state anxiety and negative affect and increases in positive affect.
> Breathwork produces a significantly greater reduction in respiratory rate compared with mindfulness meditation
Fun study, but is mindfulness really relevant to their endpoints of interest, e.g., anxiety?
Sure, mindfulness may help with anxiety in the long term, but during the first 30 days? Anecdotally, some folks I know felt overwhelming anxiety during their first few sessions.
The how-to is buried pretty deep for those like me who are unfamiliar with cyclic sighing (aka psychological sighing or double inhale)
> Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they prefer, to lie down, and to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to inhale slowly, and that once their lungs were expanded, to inhale again once more to maximally fill their lungs -- even if the second inhale was shorter in duration and smaller in volume than the first, and then to slowly and fully exhale all their breath. They were told to repeat this pattern of breathing for 5 min. They were also informed that ideally, both inhales would be performed via their nose and the exhale would be performed via their mouth, but that if they preferred, they were welcome to do the breathing entirely through their nose. They were also informed that it is normal for the second inhale to be briefer than the first.
Not to digress but substack bas gotten quite annoying on mobile. Have to scroll through so much irrelevant BS to just get to the article, what the hell.
I think this was done by the author to create engagement with their blog.
I'm not sure if there is a against this, but it feels kinda against the spirit of posting a title like this when it seems like the goal of the linked page is 20% to communicate the topic of the headline and 80% to drive you to other topics they have been posting about.
I’d like to point out that even though the Wim Hoff technique is based on pranayama, he recommends something pranayama actively asks you not to do. Exhale completely and then hold it for as long as you can.
I am beyond disinterested in football. Don't really like hamburgers much. And it's certainly debatable how mindfully I scroll. I find value in mindfulness and am open to suggestions and teachings on breathing and meditation.
But you'll need a heeeeeelllaaaa more data before you casually add "psychic powers" to the claims :-)
anytime i read something like that i have to wonder: if it can make such a big difference, why can't i see that difference in the world? perhaps it really only goes as far as the child level party tricks. or perhaps psychic abilities don't really matter.
people interested in 'breathing' things.. let's recall a few basics.. Many humans are in different stages of life (age), of training (basic fitness), of capacity (the body you are in), and alertness (are you paying attention to things that matter?).
Breathing is a minute-to-minute vital life function. You can hurt yourself, perhaps seriously, with breathing changes. But wait -- holding your breathe is harmless and this is stupid that you warn me about it, one person wrote after a similar comment like this here on YNews. really? I don't know you but I guarantee you are not six years old right now.
Hold the breathe like a babe in arms, gently, with complete awareness... You tri-athletes, you too..
yes, I agree this is annoying to see Western Medicine "discover" this .. but please work with experienced people, not alone, not with a video or PDF from somewhere.. to health!
> Interestingly, those who felt the greatest boost in mood also experienced the biggest drop in heart rate variability.
A drop in HRV isn't generally good. So I check the paper, and found this:
> No significant changes were found in heart rate variability or resting heart rate over the course of the study in either of the groups (Figures 4C and 4D)
There was a reduction respiratory rate for those an increase in daily positive affect. Bottom line, unclear if this particular study points to a positive health outcome other than feeling happier.
Interestingly, change in respiratory rate was negatively correlated with change in daily positive affect (Figure S5; r = - 0.24, p < 0.05), suggesting that participants who showed the highest reduction in respiratory rate also showed the highest daily increase in positive affect over the course of the study (Figure S5).
rojobuffalo|3 years ago
Why do other mood improvement habits seem more approachable, like making a cup of tea or exercise or a shower, while sitting and breathing seems harder?
wpietri|3 years ago
You might try making it part of a broader routine. Lately (and unusually for me) I've been struggling with sleep. So I've explicitly adopted a bedtime routine that gets me to wind down. As part of that, I light a big candle when I start the routine. Then the last thing I do before blowing out the candle getting into bed is to sit down by the candle and use it as a medication focus. This way I feel like I'm getting the sitting for "free" in that I don't have to expend any willpower to make it happen; there are other positive associations that serve as the reward.
leashless|3 years ago
The critical innovation is doing ten minute rounds of different practices, so no practice is held for very long. This seems to help a ton with "mind wanders" and surprisingly doesn't seem to impair overall progress at all. If anything the rotation of practices seems to improve overall concentration and keeps people from hallucinating because they've been staring at a blank wall for six hours!
jddj|3 years ago
After all, all of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone
nvader|3 years ago
klyrs|3 years ago
The stillness, I think. With adhd, that's my challenge anyway. The mind does not shut off, and 5 minutes can feel like forever. Even thinking about it makes me squirm. But I took a yoga class once that did breathwork, and with guidance, I found the ability to focus my entire attention on my breath; the action and the feeling of it.
JenrHywy|3 years ago
This is true even of really low-effort things, like box breathing, or drinking a glass of cold water on waking.
I think habits are just hard to maintain as an individual, and historically we've leaned on communities to keep us on-track. The best workaround I've found is to subscribe to podcasts that regularly touch on the practices to keep them within my awareness, but that's far from perfect.
swayvil|3 years ago
Concentration meditation. I used to do it as much as possible. Every day. Sometimes 2, 3, 6 times. I was kinda nuts. But my practice was strong.
Vipassana + concentration. My practice was extremely erratic.
Vipassana. Just vipassana. That's what I do now. My practice is very consistent. Haven't missed a day in a decade.
I think it's because vipassana is more compatible with the rest of my life than concentration. So there's no big transition. I'm basically doing vipassana, in varying degrees, all the time.
For what it's worth.
AndrewKemendo|3 years ago
The Feedback loop is longer and impact more subtle so you don't correlate the effects with the action as strongly
bambax|3 years ago
The way I do it is still very relaxed and focus on a point that is somewhere in front of my forehead, and have very regular, simple breathing, without forcing it. It takes less than a minute of this for the hiccup to go away. I think the trick is to think about nothing instead of thinking about the hiccup.
stanislavb|3 years ago
graderjs|3 years ago
staplung|3 years ago
1) cyclic sighing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc 2) box breathing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmt1Znux58
Couldn't find anything for hyperventilation with retention.
I have no idea if they match the exact mechanics that were tested so make of it what you will.
dalys|3 years ago
sgdpk|3 years ago
robofanatic|3 years ago
Here is the way I was taught.
1. relax.
2. deep inhale.
3. pause (1 count)
4. say 'O' (2 or 3 counts, you can stretch it further if you can). Here you are basically exhaling through mouth.
5. slowly transition from 'O' to 'M'. for a brief period in the transition try to say 'O' nasally. might need a bit of practice but basically you are slowly transitioning from exhaling via mouth to exhaling via nose.
6. as you completely switch to 'M' your mouth is shut and you are totally exhaling via nose. Stretch 'M' as long as you can.
7. repeat this cycle. Once you find the rhythm its quite mentally relaxing.
ramshanker|3 years ago
3 Steps, to be repeated thrice in the order written.
1. Stretch O and keep M short.
2. Keep O and M equal length.
3. Keep O short and stretch M.
wayeq|3 years ago
Coupled with the full body muscle engagement and cardiovascular training that comes along with it, it seems like the perfect exercise for those that have access to a pool.
bsmitty5000|3 years ago
hbarka|3 years ago
https://youtu.be/vA50EK70whE
williamscales|3 years ago
1) Box breathing
2) Yoganidra (even if I’m not trying to fall asleep)
jawon|3 years ago
tsujamin|3 years ago
photochemsyn|3 years ago
https://www.singwise.com/articles/correct-breathing-and-supp...
> "It is also important to note that, in voice pedagogy, 'breathing from the diaphragm' and 'breathing from the belly' are not viewed as being synonymous. The breath support technique that is widely referred to as 'diaphragmatic breathing', (when correctly executed), should not be confused with 'belly breathing'. Unlike 'belly breathing', 'breathing from the diaphragm' involves no pushing or forceful expulsion of air, and is the natural, correct, safe, gentle, internationally accepted method of supporting the singing tone. In diaphragmatic breathing, the tone rides on a minimal and steady stream of air, which brings stability and consistency to the tone."
knaik94|3 years ago
Musicians and athletes practice structured breathing as a way of building cardio and increasing lung capacity. Your lungs don't change, you just learn to control airflow better. The way "ancient traditions" are frequently framed makes me avoid and treat them like pseudoscience. Framing it from the persepctive of an athlete helped me evaluate it more seriously. Mindful meditation is beneficial but completely indepedent from breathing exercises and you don't need the former to get benefits from the latter.
I am not arguing the value or validity of "ancient techniques", I am sharing my initial bias when I was first introduced to pranayama, and how it's taught as if it exists in isolation. This post doesn't mention sports or singing/musicians once.
There's many techniques but box breathing where you take extra air in after you feel like your lungs are full, and a longer period exhaling than inhaling, is the primary technique I was taught for marching band/trombone. The "cyclic sighing" described in the paper, but with a longer inhale and exhale. We did, at ~80 bpm, 4 counts for inhale, 4 counts of holding, and 8 counts of exhale, with whatever extra "sip" of air we could manage to inhale during the hold. If you're not used to breathing exercises, doing 4+4+8 a few times can leave you light headed. It's normal to cough from the extra sip of air.
guybedo|3 years ago
I also regularly practice Andrew Weil's 478 breathing https://routineshub.com/public/items/fb2c75bd-4d6d-424e-925a...
martingoodson|3 years ago
sitkack|3 years ago
thorvaldsson|3 years ago
That, and plunging and holding my face in the cold water to try to trigger the mammalian diving response, has really had a positive effect on me (ofcourse only n=1).
Think I'll add 5 minutes of these breathing practices to my routine as well.
abyssin|3 years ago
unity1001|3 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH40wdhzUuM
Its based on solid research - test groups that hum in the specific frequency were found to have increased their nitric oxide production a dozen or more times. Whereas control groups and groups that did the meditation in another frequency either did not produce any different amount or comparably low amounts.
canadiantim|3 years ago
bamboozled|3 years ago
It's such hard work that I decided to stop drinking for a year to make it more tolerable to exercise with the rowing machine.
One of my friends tried to beat my time on the rower and was so sore for 3 nights, he had nightmares about the rower ha.
Anyway, it obviously made me question should I be doing more for my body, including breathing exercises, but what this kind of thing also makes me really think about is how stupid air pollution is. What it would feel like not to have access to fresh clean air and how bad it would be to be suffocating. What a privilege it is to be able to breathe and it makes me feel like I want to go plant trees.
Has anyone else had similar thoughts during exercise / breathe training? If anything I think it's good to become aware of the breathe and air for this reason alone, it would make the world a better place.
knaik94|3 years ago
I personally found that having physical markers for when to breathe in and out made it a lot easier to understand and practice. Tying yoga poses to the amount of time I hold air made is easier to track my improvements too. I imagine swimming similarly allows a more structured way to practice cyclic breathing. I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing. Nothing has improved my cardio as much as erg + controlled breathing, I use pretty short intervals.
Another place cyclic breathing was crucial was when I did marching band. I played trombone so it was mandatory that I have athletic lung capacity. I was told that the exercises aren't making your lungs bigger, you're getting used to having your lungs stay expanded for longer.
The most important thing was the extra breath you take after you feel like your lungs are completely full. Everyone coughs when you take in that extra bit of air after breathing in deeply, in the beginning. There's plastic ball valve things you can buy to observe your breathing but I never personally saw it as useful. A relative was given something similar after a heart attack in order to monitor lung strength during recovery.
It's also pretty common to recommend some type of cyclic breathing when handling anxiety. It helps control and lower the physical symptoms of anxiety like rapid heart rate.
Looking up box/cyclic breathing guides for athletes or music students might help, if you are looking for more structure guides. The cyclic breathing in this study is not the same as circular breathing.
lwerdna|3 years ago
Did your HRV increase, indicating better health? How are you measuring it?
> I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it with cyclic breathing.
Can you explain more? Search results for "cyclic breathing" return many varied results. Are you performing it while during the row, or in preparation for it? I can get 2k meters under 8 minutes, but I'm gasping at the end.
ergonaught|3 years ago
The "coherent breathing" work that popped up sometime in the last ~15 years is pretty interesting, too.
voldacar|3 years ago
herodoturtle|3 years ago
I only ask because there are several other commenters on here offering breathing tips, and you sound like an expert on this.
JaggerFoo|3 years ago
So cyclic sighing can replace mindful meditation, except that it requires more use to reap the benefits.
So now Cyclic Sighing, Mindful Meditation and Binaural Beats are techniques I can call upon in times of stress.
Cheers
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
Gatsky|3 years ago
> Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they preferred, to lie down, and then to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to close their eyes and to start breathing while focusing their mental attention on their forehead region between their two eyes. They were told that if their focus drifted from that location to re-recenter their attention by focusing back first on their breath and then on the forehead region between their eyes. They were told that as thoughts arise, to recognize that as normal, refocus their attention back to their forehead region and to continue the practice until time has elapsed.
Is this a legit expression of mindfulness meditation? It lacks any sort of breath modification.
mehphp|3 years ago
adamtemple|3 years ago
moomoo11|3 years ago
nradov|3 years ago
graderjs|3 years ago
groby_b|3 years ago
And yes, it's fairly basic stuff - but it's also laying the foundation for ongoing studies. And it's not like it's ignoring ancient practices, they're specifically referenced.
While we're on "how does this study help in any way", it's also worth calling out that it has conclusively shown that you can remotely administer intervention and monitor the physiological response. Yes, again, a small thing, but important going forward.
And finally, this study was intended as an exploratory study - what can we find when we look here. And it will likely lead to a clinical trial. Yes, more reconfirmation of "what we've always known", but in a way that makes it more likely it finds entrance into the Western medicine canon. That's a huge step forward, because it'll move it from the easy dismissal of "maybe just woo" to "proven practice", and so gives a chance to reduce the number of pharmacological interventions doctors opt for.
strken|3 years ago
simonebrunozzi|3 years ago
How would one learn how to do it properly? I don't think a random Youtube video has enough credibility.
calebio|3 years ago
Surprisingly, you don't need to learn it as much as you just need to do it and think about how your body feels as you do it.
When you exhale, just exhale like you were just relieved of something horrible... or like you're saying "whewwwwwwwwww" as in "whewww, that's a relief".
Don't worry about how many seconds it was, don't really count unless you like to, just breath and feel the feelings.
When you do that a few times, especially after a slow inhale... it starts to feel really good, really natural, and in a weird way when you think it's going to work and think it's going to feel good, it actually ends up feeling good and relieving stress.
barrenko|3 years ago
It's sometimes best to work at this other way around, like with anger management, e.g. don't try to improve your breathing, but try to be more concious of when your breathing and mental state go to sh*.
acituan|3 years ago
Regarding the criticisms of this study;
Firstly, the small sample size is based on volunteers, so folks already believed there was going to be a payoff from something that is 75% breathwork.
Secondly, there is no "sham intervention" class to counter the placebo effects from this.
Thirdly, their mindfulness instruction is atypical; it should have been passive focus on breath rather than a visual/somatic cue on the forehead to be comperable with breath work vs breath focus.
Finally, their exclusion criteria makes it too restricted;
> For health and safety reasons, we excluded those with self-reported moderate to severe psychiatric or medical conditions that could be exacerbated by study participation, such as heart disease, glaucoma, history of seizures, pregnancy, psychosis, suicidality, bipolar disorder, or substance use disorders.
I find it annoying that the list is not exhaustive but we could reasonably assume they also had to exclude moderate and above depression and anxiety disorders, not to mention panic disorder[1]. Anxious folks are particularly sensitive to breathwork, and even 10% of their "healthy" population reported anxiety as a result of these practices (highest ingroup rate is 17%, in the favorite "sighing" group)
Besides the anxiety inducing vs reducing effect of all breathwork had more variance than the mindfulness intervention, which puts into question whether the cost/benefit of the intervention (not to mention it's wide scale applicability) is sufficient.
What Huberman is popular for is known as a "nutrientism" of sorts; as in assemble vitamins a, b, c..., this and that macronutrient plus this and that micronutrient and you will have a full nutritional profile. Not saying he is all bs at all, e.g his circadian light stuff is solid, but more often than not after the 50th episode these turn into bite sized oversold interventions mostly as an illusion of "doing something good for me so that I don't have to do anything else".
As a final note, mindfulness meditation traditionally has never been an emotion regulation tool, it is an education tool as a part of wisdom traditions, none of which had "good affect in one month" as the primary metric of their success.
[1] The panic disorder population is even more interesting. 50% of the panic disordered people do not suffer from hyperventilatory or otherwise respiratory phenomena. Not only that, the hyperventilators are suffering from hypocapnia, as in a drop in CO2 and not O2, which is completely opposite to Huberman's "dumping CO2 and therefore relaxing" magic/logic.
petesergeant|3 years ago
Then it is surprising that a reasonably robust journal like Cell Reports Medicine published it (presumably after peer review), and so many Stanford postdocs and associate professors put their name on it
stinos|3 years ago
How can you so sure that the volunteers believed that?
rolph|3 years ago
reactspa|3 years ago
I have been doing it for a couple of years without knowing it was a thing. I have studied common Pranayama techniques, and I stumbled upon it via trial and error. I do it because I find it anxiety-reducing. I used to refer to it internally as "double inhale breathing".
After reading the OP article, and noting that they referred to "Yogic breathing", I decided to do a little research and discovered that this technique is called "Dirga Pranayama" or "three part breathing". The authors should have mentioned it in their article.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
throw1234651234|3 years ago
Read "Altered Traits" - two western scientists trying to pump up meditation self-report that they can't find any tangible benefits and resort to BP control meditation because they can't even reduce their BP, let alone anything else. "Anxiety and mood" are pretty subjective. Just sitting there drops pulse too.
dragonsh|3 years ago
I follow these simple rules for breathing
All the pranayam and yogic techniques try to make it natural to have this pattern and symmetry in our breathing process.nprateem|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
DFHippie|3 years ago
* Yes, this is an odd sort of sighing, but it isn't that different from spontaneous sighing. And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other reason.
klyrs|3 years ago
It's common for people to hyperventilate in the midst of a panic attack, and the common advice I've seen is to encourage a panicked person to take deep breaths. Strange to see it as a consideration for beneficial effects. As a kid I'd hyperventilate to feel dizzy because it was fun (oops was I getting high?)
kbutler|3 years ago
So maybe it's consciously emulating a natural behavior matching a lower-stress state, to help shift to that state.
From personal experience, the deep inhalation preceding a sigh (extended exhalation) is also helpful.
hestefisk|3 years ago
rcarmo|3 years ago
I do sigh a lot in meetings, and am (perhaps mistakenly) believed to be very patient with people... Oh well.
lightedman|3 years ago
"Breathwork improves mood and physiological arousal more than mindfulness meditation"
Headline states that it reduces physiological arousal.
Sakos|3 years ago
> Both mindfulness meditation and breathwork groups showed significant reductions in state anxiety and negative affect and increases in positive affect.
> Breathwork produces a significantly greater reduction in respiratory rate compared with mindfulness meditation
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK|3 years ago
FireBy2024|3 years ago
dr_kiszonka|3 years ago
Sure, mindfulness may help with anxiety in the long term, but during the first 30 days? Anecdotally, some folks I know felt overwhelming anxiety during their first few sessions.
swayvil|3 years ago
I heard that somewhere before.
squeegee_scream|3 years ago
> Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or, if they prefer, to lie down, and to set a timer for 5 min. Then they were told to inhale slowly, and that once their lungs were expanded, to inhale again once more to maximally fill their lungs -- even if the second inhale was shorter in duration and smaller in volume than the first, and then to slowly and fully exhale all their breath. They were told to repeat this pattern of breathing for 5 min. They were also informed that ideally, both inhales would be performed via their nose and the exhale would be performed via their mouth, but that if they preferred, they were welcome to do the breathing entirely through their nose. They were also informed that it is normal for the second inhale to be briefer than the first.
HighlandSpring|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
curiousDog|3 years ago
gavanwilhite|3 years ago
I'm not sure if there is a against this, but it feels kinda against the spirit of posting a title like this when it seems like the goal of the linked page is 20% to communicate the topic of the headline and 80% to drive you to other topics they have been posting about.
randorand0|3 years ago
articlemode|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
kerpotgh|3 years ago
smohare|3 years ago
[deleted]
ericwang1997|3 years ago
[deleted]
groffee|3 years ago
[deleted]
NikolaNovak|3 years ago
But you'll need a heeeeeelllaaaa more data before you casually add "psychic powers" to the claims :-)
jrochkind1|3 years ago
pasquinelli|3 years ago
dumbaccount123|3 years ago
nradov|3 years ago
kerpotgh|3 years ago
[deleted]
mistrial9|3 years ago
Breathing is a minute-to-minute vital life function. You can hurt yourself, perhaps seriously, with breathing changes. But wait -- holding your breathe is harmless and this is stupid that you warn me about it, one person wrote after a similar comment like this here on YNews. really? I don't know you but I guarantee you are not six years old right now.
Hold the breathe like a babe in arms, gently, with complete awareness... You tri-athletes, you too..
yes, I agree this is annoying to see Western Medicine "discover" this .. but please work with experienced people, not alone, not with a video or PDF from somewhere.. to health!
nradov|3 years ago
boxcarr|3 years ago
> Interestingly, those who felt the greatest boost in mood also experienced the biggest drop in heart rate variability.
A drop in HRV isn't generally good. So I check the paper, and found this:
> No significant changes were found in heart rate variability or resting heart rate over the course of the study in either of the groups (Figures 4C and 4D)
There was a reduction respiratory rate for those an increase in daily positive affect. Bottom line, unclear if this particular study points to a positive health outcome other than feeling happier.
curiouska|3 years ago
Interestingly, change in respiratory rate was negatively correlated with change in daily positive affect (Figure S5; r = - 0.24, p < 0.05), suggesting that participants who showed the highest reduction in respiratory rate also showed the highest daily increase in positive affect over the course of the study (Figure S5).
curiouska|3 years ago