Ah, that is a horrible analysis. They are wanting to estimate the number of people with these skills by searching on hashtags, but they search only on the term "objective-c" when what they really should be searching on is Cocoa, iPhone, iPad, iOS and other terms that require one to be working in Objective-C. There's not so much to Objective-C itself that there's a lot of discussion about the language itself compared to what it is used in.
Also, in general I don't buy into these methodologies where someone spends a few hours doing searches on internet boards for certain keywords as a way to estimate the number of people with various skills. It's not been shown to be a valid way of getting accurate data.
Java's Ratio: Slightly less than 2
Obj-C's Ratio: Slightly more than 3
Let's see, I can learn Java and get a job building Android apps or a job building web apps or a job writing mainframe software or writing desktop software or writing server software or building web services or making video games...
...or...
I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps.
If you need a job and you're deciding between the two, Java should be a no-brainer.
Objective-C is a nice tool to have in your toolbox, but it shouldn't be the one you take out the most.
"I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps."
...And make $250/hr contract rates. There is ludicrous demand for iOS work. I know several enterprising devs who got into Obj-C over Java purely because the pay is insanely good.
And give me a break. What serious companies are doing web apps or video games in Java in 2012? Sure, Facebook and Twitter are using Java internally, but only for really specific technical challenges forced on to them by scaling. Objective-C is way more fun from a product perspective because you're close to the user. That is desirable for many.
Ron (of #code2011) did mention something along these lines and I had meant to include it. Thanks for the reminder -- added it into the post with a link to this comment.
Okay, so everyone wants to hire an iPhone developer for whatever awesome app idea they have. Most experienced iPhone developers are already pretty busy.
A further explanation would include the fact that a lot of those people who have a great idea and just need a developer to code it up for them have no idea how the software process works, and the gig will likely involve them stiffing you on the last month's pay and feeling like you ripped them off unless you're pretty experienced at contracting and managing upwards.
The tweets in question were from the #Code2011 hash tag where devs were saying what languages they used in 2011 and from tweets collected by my site http://jobstractor.com which tries to find people hiring devs on Twitter. Hope that sounds a bit more sane :)
The issue with learning objective c is the lack of portability. Yes the language runs on everything via the use of gnustep, but on first appearances its is nextstep ported to modern hardware.
As a disclaimer objective c is my language of choice, my plan this year is to make the code portable.
If you want to make your code portable to Android, consider helping the effort to port Objective-C to it (specifically, enough to get cocos2d running).
It'd be second class in terms of performance. Native code execution speed is one of iOS device's strongest selling points vs. Android, which has a few GC hiccups here and there. Apple is probably more inclined to push the tool that yields the best performance for its users, perhaps even at the expense of developers' productivity.
Is MacRuby even a second-class language for developing iOS apps yet? Last I checked they hadn't got anything more than a proof-of-concept going. I thought it was mainly a Mac-focused technology.
I like Ruby. I spend most of my professional day writing Ruby code. I'm definitely not against the idea of adding Ruby as a first class language.
However, Objective-C is similar enough to Ruby that people already well versed in Ruby should have no trouble just using Objective-C. At least for me, when I realized Objective-C was essentially Ruby with C-style syntax, it immediately made sense. I guess YMMV.
The real hard part is learning the beast that is Cocoa/Cocoa Touch. I was able to learn Objective-C in minutes, but learning the frameworks took much longer. You are going to have to do that no matter what language you choose, unfortunately. The APIs have been reasonably consistent across all of the languages they have been implemented on, so I don't think choosing Ruby for your project is really going to speed up the process all that much, if at all.
Objective-C's outlook will be about as strong as the Apple platform will continue to be for better or for worse. Yes, it does exist outside of the Apple ecosystem, but only really in nominal form. What's more, Objective-C work pretty much implies that you'll be doing Apple development...which people may or may not want to get into for hangups. I'm not sure if the app dev craze is a trend that can continue over the long term or not. Should be interesting to see!
Android is full of hello world, copy cap apps, and junk that doesn't get filtered as well as in the Apple app store. So quantity doesn't really amount to much there.
Objective-c is slightly strange compared to other languages but its really just another language anyone can pick up if they put the time and effort into it. Just like you decided to learn clojure or ruby or whatever put some time in, and you can code in any language.
Of all the programming languages I've used (C#, Java, Visual Basic, Python, Javascript, C++, C) is is my favourite.
Not that the other languages are bad but I prefer to write in Objective-C for the frameworks that Apple provides and the syntax (which makes it easy to read IMO). Also the fact that it is a superset of C gives me the ability to get my hands dirty if need be.
Yeah at first, but once you get used to the syntax and long method names, it's your standard static OOP language. Has some cool feature actually, like Blocks etc. Like it more then Java now.
Also what's really cool is, that you can seamlessly mix in C if you feel like low-level programming, I like that.
- No namespaces. Two letter prefix hack from the old C days
- Still makes use of a preprocessor
- Slow compilation times
- The way properties are declared just feels like an hack
- Automatic memory management extensions (GC & ARC) feel like an hack
- You need a Mac to properly learn it. gcc+GNUStep don't really count.
This sentiment is probably why there is such a proportionately low number of devs who take the time to learn Objective-C, which in turn makes those who do learn it even more valuable.
[+] [-] droithomme|14 years ago|reply
Also, in general I don't buy into these methodologies where someone spends a few hours doing searches on internet boards for certain keywords as a way to estimate the number of people with various skills. It's not been shown to be a valid way of getting accurate data.
[+] [-] padobson|14 years ago|reply
Let's see, I can learn Java and get a job building Android apps or a job building web apps or a job writing mainframe software or writing desktop software or writing server software or building web services or making video games...
...or...
I can learn Objective-C and get a job building iOS apps.
If you need a job and you're deciding between the two, Java should be a no-brainer.
Objective-C is a nice tool to have in your toolbox, but it shouldn't be the one you take out the most.
[+] [-] teej|14 years ago|reply
...And make $250/hr contract rates. There is ludicrous demand for iOS work. I know several enterprising devs who got into Obj-C over Java purely because the pay is insanely good.
And give me a break. What serious companies are doing web apps or video games in Java in 2012? Sure, Facebook and Twitter are using Java internally, but only for really specific technical challenges forced on to them by scaling. Objective-C is way more fun from a product perspective because you're close to the user. That is desirable for many.
[+] [-] derefr|14 years ago|reply
Mac desktop apps too! ;)
[+] [-] missrobot|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] masklinn|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joezydeco|14 years ago|reply
Does that pretty much explain it?
[+] [-] jbooth|14 years ago|reply
A further explanation would include the fact that a lot of those people who have a great idea and just need a developer to code it up for them have no idea how the software process works, and the gig will likely involve them stiffing you on the last month's pay and feeling like you ripped them off unless you're pretty experienced at contracting and managing upwards.
[+] [-] zalew|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robinwarren|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tehjones|14 years ago|reply
As a disclaimer objective c is my language of choice, my plan this year is to make the code portable.
[+] [-] kstenerud|14 years ago|reply
Some info here: http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/forum/topic/25414
[+] [-] zefhous|14 years ago|reply
Take the surplus of enthusiasm for Ruby, combine it with the high demand for iOS developers, and there you have it!
Now if only Apple would make MacRuby a first-class language for developing iOS apps...
[+] [-] laconian|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chc|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] randomdata|14 years ago|reply
However, Objective-C is similar enough to Ruby that people already well versed in Ruby should have no trouble just using Objective-C. At least for me, when I realized Objective-C was essentially Ruby with C-style syntax, it immediately made sense. I guess YMMV.
The real hard part is learning the beast that is Cocoa/Cocoa Touch. I was able to learn Objective-C in minutes, but learning the frameworks took much longer. You are going to have to do that no matter what language you choose, unfortunately. The APIs have been reasonably consistent across all of the languages they have been implemented on, so I don't think choosing Ruby for your project is really going to speed up the process all that much, if at all.
[+] [-] cantankerous|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baltcode|14 years ago|reply
What do devs at HN think? Does it make sense to think the market for Obj C talent is going to last?
[+] [-] zbowling|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peregrine|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zarathust|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whatthefish|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reidmain|14 years ago|reply
Of all the programming languages I've used (C#, Java, Visual Basic, Python, Javascript, C++, C) is is my favourite.
Not that the other languages are bad but I prefer to write in Objective-C for the frameworks that Apple provides and the syntax (which makes it easy to read IMO). Also the fact that it is a superset of C gives me the ability to get my hands dirty if need be.
[+] [-] zyb09|14 years ago|reply
Also what's really cool is, that you can seamlessly mix in C if you feel like low-level programming, I like that.
[+] [-] pjmlp|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] markrickert|14 years ago|reply
I cringe now when I write PHP.
[+] [-] commanda|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
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