[temp_account_32]

Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair?

Genuine question, I just don't know how to tiptoe around this in a 2023 acceptable way without asking it bluntly.

Sounds like we need better medical treatment if half of people with the condition want to commit suicide, and telling people on the internet to stop bullying and putting colorful flags in your twitter profile won't suffice. Not advocating for hate, just saying that it seems the medical community delegated this whole thing to society with a note of 'please be nice and everything will sort itself out'.

[mrguyorama]

>Sounds like we need better medical treatment if half of people with the condition want to commit suicide

We KNOW exactly what to do and how to help trans people be happy and successful and not want to kill themselves: Preferred gender supporting care, treating them like the human beings they are, hormones for those who are confident enough to not regret it.

Here's what half the country currently votes for instead: Banning trans people from bathrooms, banning books that acknowledge the existence and acceptableness of trans people, calling trans people pedophiles and groomers on large public news channels, generally just making """jokes""" that amount to "if you are trans then you are stupid and broken and don't deserve to live"

[roughly]

Research on youth suicide rates shows an extremely high correlation with the family and social environment, in that family support and at least some welcoming spaces dramatically lower suicide rates among trans youth.

The Trevor Project collects research on these lines: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-abo...

[notch898a]

Looked at the page.

Says:

  LGBTQ youth are not inherently prone to suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity but rather placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society.

This is a remarkable claim that demands proof. This seems to be a well thought out, researched, website therefore it can't be some oversight that they just spout this without evidence.

[crote]

The medical community didn't delegate it to society.

Transitioning is an effective and proven treatment, which has a far higher rate of success than basically any other psychiatry-related treatment. The medical part is pretty much solved, and those physical differences can be reconciled quite well.

But as it turns out, the hate from society still remains, and it still has an effect. Turns out being happy is a bit tricky when it is literally a coin flip whether the person you are talking to believes you should be murdered merely for existing.

[harvey9]

Here's a paper which suggests that the medical part might not be solved

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

"Conclusions

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."

[notch898a]

It would be false equivalence for me to suggest this is a suitable analogue, but it is interesting to note certain amputees are able to perform more or less completely normally from a social perspective in daily life (and possible even excel in sports etc) yet they can still suffer from phantom limb syndrome and have increased risk of suicide, anxiety etc.

There is clearly a significant social aspect here but I'm not willing to toss out that the body may just really not enjoy not being naturally in the expected configuration. Going to the gender you want seems to be partially solved but, like the person with the lost limb, it's doubtful we have anything close to a full substitute. I really worry the medical community has been doing a dis-service to the development of treatment by underplaying the suicidal aspects that may be less socially related.

[somsak2]

The treatments I'm familiar with, especially those that are assisted by prescription drugs, are quite new and unsupported. it's hard to find any studies of this stuff at all. the amount we know about efficacy here is shockingly low.

if you have references, I'd welcome them.

[mensetmanusman]

The horror stories from detransitioners prove that the medical part is not ‘pretty much solved’. Unclear why such disinformation spreads so much.

[lilacat]

Proper medical care has been shown to improve the mental health of trans people, but the social isolation is still a major factor. Trans people can undergo medical transition to better align their bodies to their sense of self, but they often end up losing friends and family in the process, and face discrimination when it comes to finding work or housing, or simply just existing in the world. Not to mention many places currently have laws, or are pushing new laws, to limit trans individuals' access to things like medical care and other necessities.

[freejazz]

>Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair?

What's the difference when so many US states are now prohibiting treatement for this?

[teaearlgraycold]

> because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences

Impossible to reconcile when they’re blocked from effective treatment. In a decent society trans people would be given treatment when asked for.

[xcxs]

> Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide

They haven't. This is an invented statistic that just gets repeated and repeated until people accept it as if it's truth.

[harambae]

Yeah "Blocked and Reported" Episode 149 (Jan 28, 2023) debunks this stat over a good 10 or 15 minutes for anyone that cares.

The flaw was in how the survey was conducted. I won't try to repeat it here- it's a long explanation to do justice.

[superjan]

Edit: never mind this comment, but can’t delete anymore. Don’t remember where I heard this.

If your brain does not get exposed to the ‘right’ set of hormones at the right time while you’re in the womb, your brain can develop a different gender identity than the rest of your body. This can be the explanation for some trans people, but I don’t know how many.

[vehemenz]

What does it mean to suggest the brain has a "different gender identity?" Surely we are not reverting back to mind/body dualism?

[xcxs]

This is just a hypothesis, there's no evidence for this.

[etchalon]

People were making the "they're committing suicide because their brain is wrong so we need to fix their brain" argument about homosexuality back in the 90s.

Research has pretty firmly come down on the "nah, it's society." side of things.

[daveslash]

If I understood temp_account_32's point correctly, the comment about the mental health was not "they're trans, therefore their brains _must_ be wired wrong", so much as it was "before they transition, they're often so distraught over their identity and who they see in the mirror, that it often causes despair and depression".

I agree with you that research has pretty firmly come down on the side of "nah, it's society" for the former. I think the latter is a fair point. To pin it all on society I find to be disingenuous. Transitioning can be a healthy thing in that case. Disclaimer: am not trans, so I openly admit I may be totally ignorant and off base.

[mensetmanusman]

It’s also impossible to decouple mental health from your surroundings, i.e. society etc.

[mensetmanusman]

It’s mental disorder issue, but mental health is so stigmatized that it’s phobic to suggest someone needs mental health help. It’s analogous to helping someone walk off a bridge and feeling like a hero for helping someone.

[notch898a]

Transgender is no longer classified as a mental disorder. Any attempt to have a discussion on this, I've found, has to overcome this semantics. If there is no disorder in the individual, obviously society is fully to blame.

https://nicic.gov/being-transgender-no-longer-mental-disorde...