My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch.
Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist.
Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead.
But given time, the events the preceded their writing gets forgotten. I've never seen any of these buildings fall down, so why do we need so many rules to prevent buildings from falling down? They just make it more expensive! Those greedy bureaucrats and building officials just want to prevent development!
In Turkey, these buildings were constructed by building companies close to government. They paid their bribes and constructed the buildings with making every shortcut.
What was Turkey's response? The governor of Hatay ordered to demolish the building construction control authority's archive (archive with signed and stamped construction projects, floor studies etc.), with the documents in it (i.e. to bury all evidence). The building is a one-floored archive and did not suffer any earthquake damage. Luckily a group of lawyers found out and stopped the destruction halfway. Now, with the pressure from the press, the heads of the building companies are arrested one by one.
Imagine the level of corruption when the governor orders to demolish the archive holding evidence without telling anyone :).
I feel the same way developing software - the only thing that ever matters, and has ever mattered (at least since I started developing software in 1992) is "meeting the date". Whatever corners can be cut to make the date are cut, and then the thing breaks in fairly predictable ways because corners were cut. It's maddeningly infuriating and I'm not even dealing with people's lives here. I can't even imagine having to put up with this attitude when people could actually die.
> Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist.
> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead.
Some of the rules are, but some of the rules aren't. When code calls for a maximum distance between electrical outlets, that's partially for convenience, and partly because of unsafe practices with extension cords, so there's some blood there, but if you miss the mark by a foot, it's not disasterous.
Uniform application of some rules without considerations for cost or practicality is foolish. For example, where I live, with my size house, any permitted remodeling triggers a requirement to retrofit fire sprinklers, despite the fact that I have a well which likely couldn't supply said fire sprinklers in a reasonable manner --- especially if a fire resulted in electricity being cut off, or was caused by unsafe heating choices when utility electricity was out of service (this is a common cause of house fires as I understand it). You could mitigate that with a high mounted water tank, but that's not actually required, might require substantial engineering to ensure the weight of the water and tank doesn't exceed the structure's weight bearing capacity, and would add significant maintenance to ensure the condition of the tank such that it did not leak and cause major damage to the structure. Oh, and how are you supposed to get such a tank into an attic like that anyway?
Structural requirements tend to be more likely to be written from experience though. And earthquakes and high winds have a way of striking everywhere. TR is known to be seismically active, so cutting corners on earthquake safety is a worse risk/cost tradeoff than in places where earthquakes are rare.
There are building codes that are designed to increase authentic safety, and those that are actually trying to achieve other ends, like decreasing the supply of available housing, via the claim of "safety."
An increasing problem locally (Boulder) is the use of the permitting process to push high-cost climate goals on home owners, leading to them skipping permitting and inspection entirely.
Here, you’re required to choose at least three expensive improvements from a set of eight (iirc), ranging from relatively cheap (electric vehicle charger) to very expensive (rooftop solar).
My home was built in the 1970s, the bathrooms had mold and had to be gutted, and the place was in desperate need of a remodel just to be livable.
I already have rooftop solar and an electrical vehicle charger, but that’s not enough.
I was expected to spend roughly an extra $40k — on top of a $120k remodel — adding additional features and replacing perfectly good portions of my home to meet Boulder’s climate goals.
I can’t afford that, but my house isn’t livable as-is.
As a result, I’m having a bunch of work done without permitting or inspection.
I hate it, but that’s the Faustian bargain people choose when government tries to leverage safety regulations as a stick to enforce expensive, non-safety related ends.
In Turkey it is different, even the minimum requirements were bypassed with exemptions due to government's contractors friendly policies, and Erdoğan has recently been promising "the biggest social housing project in the history of the Turkish republic'. Most houses in Turkey are of inferior quality, I visited Antalya and the thin walls and roofs of buildings and rooms of the flats barely had privacy in terms of sound proofing within it and with the neighboring flats. The same was the rule up north, and from my discussions with some locals inferior quality and low standard was not only in building materials and standards but in several other sectors.
> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead.
Or fire codes.
Related off-topic reminder, in the hope it may save one life one day: please use this comment as a reminder to check upon the status of your smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and fire extinguisher. At the very least every room where people sleep in should have a smoke alarm and every room with a furnace (boiler, oven, kitchen, ...) a smoke and CO alarm. They must not be painted over, and their batteries be regularly replaced.
Each story of a house should have at least one extinguisher rated for classes A and B (solid and liquid combustibles), kitchens additionally a class F extinguisher (DO NOT EVER use a water/foam extinguisher on a fat fire). Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years and must not be used again after breaking the seal without a check-over by a licensed professional.
Also, have your building's electrical lines checked at least once a decade and after each major rework if they are up to code, and regularly check appliance cables for damage. Electrical defects account (in Germany) for roughly a third of all fires.
Well, the code is always overzealous (never met an exception), and the smaller the house the more overzealous it is.
If it wasn't, we would have a much easier time persecuting people that breaks it, and much more public sympathy for large culprits that actually have much fewer (relatively to their capacity) strings over then than any random person. The same applies to fire codes.
> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead.
Absolutely true
I'm guilty of binging a few youtube videos on aviation and engineering failures over the winter, as well as videos on road infrastructure (slowly, as a cyclist, I understand that motorists are not just idiots but idiots on roads built by idiots) and I'm pretty sure there are youtubers that produce content on construction failures that lead to this or that code. For example the Knickerbocker Theater was code compliant but it still failed and the codes updated afterwards, rescue operations were also a bit of a mess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4P7qHjp3nE
or the collapse of a parking deck in Canada that also showed how important nearby rescue services are when salt has eaten through your concrete and steel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxLtWiJ8uVg
or this building that had extra load added to the roof while the columns underneath were not built as intended https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxLtWiJ8uVg
Maybe educating the future building owners with content like this will show then that there are a lot of dangers known and unknown?
> In nearby Erzin county, however, not a single building collapsed. The local mayor and his predecessor told local media that they did not allow any illegal construction. Both used the same phrase: “My conscience is clear.”
That mayor, Ökkeş Elmasoğlu, should perhaps run for president.
I sent that to one of my Turkish friends and replied with this:
And the funny thing (not funny but ironic maybe) is it seems people didn't like that mayor and were irritated sometime because "he was always too much by the book." Now I'm sure the people of that town are grateful to have a mayor like that.
Very interesting the sad contrast with reality, in particular, considering that there has been an occurrence of this event already, and then lesson hasn't been learned:
> Construction amnesties, which allow owners to register unlicensed properties or ones that violate building codes in exchange for a fine, have made a bad situation much worse. Mr Erdogan’s government passed several such amnesties, the latest in 2018, ahead of general elections. The opposition backed the move, because it was popular with voters.
The fact that this is the exception is so sad. I don’t know how our species made it so far in spite of its own nature.
I can’t imagine how much pressure and intimidation this mayor suffered to refuse bribes from (probably very) well resourced and connected individuals/cartels.
It’s not surprising at all that the lack of accountability goes right to the top, and it’s tragic that it takes an earthquake to expose the corruption. But Turkey is far from the only country with a corrupt, ticking-time-bomb of construction and infrastructure quality issues. Pretty much every low-to-middle income country has taken the semi-rational approach of cutting corners in order to do more with less. And the high-income countries have arguably swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, with very high standards that lead to very high prices for construction of anything (and a few unfortunate places which enjoy the high price of high standards, and enough corruption to bypass these standards).
"Do more with less" is perfectly fine and rational.
"Do less with more and line my pockets along the way" is the problem.
If customers were _paying less_ for the substandard construction they're getting, okay that's one thing. But if customers are paying more, and they _think_ they're getting sturdy code-compliant construction, but contractors at one or more levels are skimming money and using substandard materials and techniques, then that's a corruption, enforcement, and auditing problem.
Indeed - you just need to look at the UK cladding scandal to see this.
I mean ffs:
In the 1980s, the Conservative Government introduced its
Deregulation Initiative; in consequence, the Building Act
1984 reduced building regulations from 306 pages to 24.
Cars have a safety rating, I wonder if houses could have the same kind of rating?
Would it be a better situation if houses for sale/rent will have a transparent safety rating visible to tenants and contractors could choose whether they build expensive, high safety buildings, or cheaper, low safety buildings?
Might sound dystopian, but to me it seems like the preferable solution.
I know I live in an old house that would probably not fit for an earthquake, but I also know that if I want to live in a safer house, I'd need to pay more or move to a less desirable location, so I'm OK with taking the risk that an earthquake will kill me while I'm in the house.
The question is whether the market could balance itself enough so contractors don't build just crappy houses and take all the new margin to themselves.
> Pretty much every low-to-middle income country has taken the semi-rational approach of cutting corners in order to do more with less.
For what it's worth, the "developed" Western countries have done just the same. Look at the fellow front page article about the train catastrophe in East Palestine or how virtually all companies got hit hard by supply chain interruptions - no matter if from Covid, the Ever Given or Ever Forward getting stuck, strikes, or whatever else tiny or small interruption, the key thing is that resilience aka stockpiles got out of fashion because they were seen as too expensive...
I was just a teenager during 1988 Armenian earthquake that leveled entirety of city of Stepanakert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Armenian_earthquake) but I remember one of the most damning pictures on the TV and newspapers (even in USSR!) was a huge piece of load-bearing concrete from the collapsed panel building with "БРАК" (FAULTY or didn't pass QA) written on it in black marker/spray paint. Yet it was still used in the building. That earthquake was a significant part of political instability that contributed to USSR demise.
If I remember correctly, Turkiyé (did I spel it write?) has always had a bunch of rolling heads, after buildings fall down like dominoes, during their frequent quakes.
Doesn't seem to have changed things.
Japan, on the other hand, seems to have a really hard-core construction ethos.
During quakes there, buildings rock around like they are at a rave, and don't fall down.
If we ever have a big quake in New York, we're screwed.
Fwiw, I just now enjoyed "Local Geology of New York City and Its Effect on Seismic Ground Motions"(2004)[1]. There's also [2], less fun, but 2020, and has a more extensive soil map.
Briefly, NYC area has a moderate earthquake risk (a magnitude 5+ per century, two 6+ per thousand years), but "it is important to keep in mind that NYC buildings prior to 1995 were not designed at all for seismic loads"[2], and NYC surface is mostly class D medium-dense soil with glacial till and human fill.
I’m close with someone who does inspections in both US and third world contexts. Apparently, the US pretty much complies with safety related building codes compared to many other places.
> "The problems lie in implementation and oversight"
This is a pattern that applies to every facet of human affairs: The declared "reality" differs from the implemented (real) reality. The key questions are only: by how much, and what happens when events force a comparison of these two "books": The one we choose to believe for expediency or profit versus the ground truth.
We can be fatalists and accept that this is "how things are". But that is not what history shows. Civilisation is a process of reconciling arbitrary, emotional, low-information, "fake realities" with objective, verified, cool-headed, facts about the state of the world. The closer we get to reconciling these books, the less we will suffer.
The only problem is that we can't emerge from our historical habits fast enough. Earthquakes, megafires, megafloods, virulent pandemics. How many wake up calls do we need? The game is over. We need to reboot to a better society.
This is a global problem: construction red tape and regulations are one of the most annoying and expensive to adhere to, and with real estate prices sky rocketing around the world the most tempting to cut corners on to dodge costs (they are also very difficult and expensive to inspect, unlike in restaurant business for example where it is quite easy to inspect that the kitchen is clean).
Take for example the Grenfell tower fire in London a few years ago, almost a 100 people burnt alive and it came down to the management company economising on external cladding (against regulation).
Back around 1982 I visited New Zealand. Traveling around Auckland it was surprising to me to encounter so many unreinforced masonry buildings. I tried several times to ask politely what was being done about this problem and each time received a stern response along the lines of "Shut up and mind your own business, damned Yankee." Then in 2011 nearly 200 people were killed, mostly by those buildings which had stood as an obvious risk for decades.
Construction scams? More like government approved construction scams. In recent years, the Turkish government issued many exemptions for projects that were built or expanded in violation of the official buidling rules. For a small fine (which yielded the treasury almost three billion euros) they could do whatever they wanted, going against all requirements and obligations for safe building which is nature-disaster resistant.
Reminds me of the famous pictures of a tori arch in Japan that survived nukes and earthquakes while its surroundings were repeatedly destroyed. Real trooper.
I guess they had the forsight/experience to occasionally send one of their civil engineers to inspect the building site and make sure material and techniques were up to spec.
If anything, the Turkiye government are dodging the finger of blame. The fault lies with the politicians for not stamping down hard on developers who flout building regulations and/or allowing them to construct buildings with a 'waiver' that lets them get away with substandard building.
"The fault" isn't some finite and indivisible thing that needs to be assigned to only one group of people. Politicians are at fault for not cracking down on scammers, and the scammer contractors are also at fault for being scammers. One does not diminish the other, stop thinking of fault as zero sum.
> Construction amnesties, which allow owners to register unlicensed properties or ones that violate building codes in exchange for a fine, have made a bad situation much worse. Mr Erdogan’s government passed several such amnesties, the latest in 2018, ahead of general elections. The opposition backed the move, because it was popular with voters. The government reaped the political dividends, while millions of property owners ended up paying into state coffers and assuming the risk. A year after the 2018 amnesty, Mr Erdogan appeared in Kahramanmaras, proudly announcing that the programme “had solved the problems” of 144,000 of the city’s residents
Building codes of course are written by blood and shall be followed.
But looking on that photo... You see bunch of vertically standing "levers" around. With their own resonance frequencies. Dynamic of their vibrations is quite complex. They may amplify effect in some places. Effect of standing wave and the like.
Just out of interest for the layman, is there anything a non-expert like myself can examine on a building to assess its 'survivability' during an earthquake?
The examples in the linked article are reinforced concrete structure that were missing their steel reinforcement. So... no, not really, unless you have an xray setup or whatever. This is precisely why we have building codes and certified inspectors to sign off on construction projects.
Don't do tall buildings in seismic zones without the benefit of an incredible amount of engineering practice, inspections, audits, and enforcement. If you suspect the locals are corrupt, your safest place during an earthquake is a straw hut or reasonable facsimile thereof.
Is there an independent international body which inspects and reports on building standards noncompliance?
Even a stratified random sample of a few dozen buildings per country (based on location, size and cost of development) would likely reveal any evidence of systematic failures
It would be a nightmare to establish something like this as every country's laws and building standards are different. I do feel like this is bordering on a human rights issue however (right to life, adequate - nonlife-threatening housing)
This is tangental but a similar idea (somewhat) works for ensuring less developed Commonwealth nations conduct voting properly. Developed Commonwealth nations setup Commonwealth Observer Groups (COGs) who sample voting places and occasionally provide security such as the recent PNG elections
Only one person should ever take the blame for this. The guy who "lost" billions of dollars from the earthquake fund is the same guy who could have enforced stricter building codes.
It's time for the people of Turkey to make their voices heard.
It’s a good thing the government of Turkey didn’t collect an Earthquake Tax on its citizens since 1999 and then do precisely nothing whatsoever regarding earthquake reinforcing or regulation or inspections.
I'm sure there's a whole chain of broken links and enough blame to share around, but as an engineer, I have to ask why we sometimes forget that we, as doctors, are also bound by a creed, which says (among other things, depending on the version), that we place service before profit, and the welfare of the public above all other considerations and that we'll "practice our profession conscientiously, with dignity, and in accordance with the highest ethical and professional standards".
Am I too naive to still believe in this?
The problem is that even with the codes properly, you can not escape past sins. In particular, illegal waste dumps from the 60s, 70s, who just have been bulldozed over and build upon. They lead to liquidification under stress (large buildings or small earth quakes. And even the best up to code building will not withstand stresses outside of the spec (tilt by 30 degrees + shake).
[+] [-] jmole|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mabbo|3 years ago|reply
Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist.
Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead.
But given time, the events the preceded their writing gets forgotten. I've never seen any of these buildings fall down, so why do we need so many rules to prevent buildings from falling down? They just make it more expensive! Those greedy bureaucrats and building officials just want to prevent development!
[+] [-] terminalcommand|3 years ago|reply
What was Turkey's response? The governor of Hatay ordered to demolish the building construction control authority's archive (archive with signed and stamped construction projects, floor studies etc.), with the documents in it (i.e. to bury all evidence). The building is a one-floored archive and did not suffer any earthquake damage. Luckily a group of lawyers found out and stopped the destruction halfway. Now, with the pressure from the press, the heads of the building companies are arrested one by one.
Imagine the level of corruption when the governor orders to demolish the archive holding evidence without telling anyone :).
[+] [-] commandlinefan|3 years ago|reply
I feel the same way developing software - the only thing that ever matters, and has ever mattered (at least since I started developing software in 1992) is "meeting the date". Whatever corners can be cut to make the date are cut, and then the thing breaks in fairly predictable ways because corners were cut. It's maddeningly infuriating and I'm not even dealing with people's lives here. I can't even imagine having to put up with this attitude when people could actually die.
[+] [-] toast0|3 years ago|reply
> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead.
Some of the rules are, but some of the rules aren't. When code calls for a maximum distance between electrical outlets, that's partially for convenience, and partly because of unsafe practices with extension cords, so there's some blood there, but if you miss the mark by a foot, it's not disasterous.
Uniform application of some rules without considerations for cost or practicality is foolish. For example, where I live, with my size house, any permitted remodeling triggers a requirement to retrofit fire sprinklers, despite the fact that I have a well which likely couldn't supply said fire sprinklers in a reasonable manner --- especially if a fire resulted in electricity being cut off, or was caused by unsafe heating choices when utility electricity was out of service (this is a common cause of house fires as I understand it). You could mitigate that with a high mounted water tank, but that's not actually required, might require substantial engineering to ensure the weight of the water and tank doesn't exceed the structure's weight bearing capacity, and would add significant maintenance to ensure the condition of the tank such that it did not leak and cause major damage to the structure. Oh, and how are you supposed to get such a tank into an attic like that anyway?
Structural requirements tend to be more likely to be written from experience though. And earthquakes and high winds have a way of striking everywhere. TR is known to be seismically active, so cutting corners on earthquake safety is a worse risk/cost tradeoff than in places where earthquakes are rare.
[+] [-] jseliger|3 years ago|reply
There are building codes that are designed to increase authentic safety, and those that are actually trying to achieve other ends, like decreasing the supply of available housing, via the claim of "safety."
"Safetyism" is everywhere: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/safetyism-is-the-water-...
[+] [-] catiopatio|3 years ago|reply
Here, you’re required to choose at least three expensive improvements from a set of eight (iirc), ranging from relatively cheap (electric vehicle charger) to very expensive (rooftop solar).
My home was built in the 1970s, the bathrooms had mold and had to be gutted, and the place was in desperate need of a remodel just to be livable.
I already have rooftop solar and an electrical vehicle charger, but that’s not enough.
I was expected to spend roughly an extra $40k — on top of a $120k remodel — adding additional features and replacing perfectly good portions of my home to meet Boulder’s climate goals.
I can’t afford that, but my house isn’t livable as-is.
As a result, I’m having a bunch of work done without permitting or inspection.
I hate it, but that’s the Faustian bargain people choose when government tries to leverage safety regulations as a stick to enforce expensive, non-safety related ends.
[+] [-] erie|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mschuster91|3 years ago|reply
Or fire codes.
Related off-topic reminder, in the hope it may save one life one day: please use this comment as a reminder to check upon the status of your smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and fire extinguisher. At the very least every room where people sleep in should have a smoke alarm and every room with a furnace (boiler, oven, kitchen, ...) a smoke and CO alarm. They must not be painted over, and their batteries be regularly replaced.
Each story of a house should have at least one extinguisher rated for classes A and B (solid and liquid combustibles), kitchens additionally a class F extinguisher (DO NOT EVER use a water/foam extinguisher on a fat fire). Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years and must not be used again after breaking the seal without a check-over by a licensed professional.
Also, have your building's electrical lines checked at least once a decade and after each major rework if they are up to code, and regularly check appliance cables for damage. Electrical defects account (in Germany) for roughly a third of all fires.
[+] [-] marcosdumay|3 years ago|reply
If it wasn't, we would have a much easier time persecuting people that breaks it, and much more public sympathy for large culprits that actually have much fewer (relatively to their capacity) strings over then than any random person. The same applies to fire codes.
[+] [-] TomK32|3 years ago|reply
Absolutely true I'm guilty of binging a few youtube videos on aviation and engineering failures over the winter, as well as videos on road infrastructure (slowly, as a cyclist, I understand that motorists are not just idiots but idiots on roads built by idiots) and I'm pretty sure there are youtubers that produce content on construction failures that lead to this or that code. For example the Knickerbocker Theater was code compliant but it still failed and the codes updated afterwards, rescue operations were also a bit of a mess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4P7qHjp3nE or the collapse of a parking deck in Canada that also showed how important nearby rescue services are when salt has eaten through your concrete and steel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxLtWiJ8uVg or this building that had extra load added to the roof while the columns underneath were not built as intended https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxLtWiJ8uVg
Maybe educating the future building owners with content like this will show then that there are a lot of dangers known and unknown?
[+] [-] andoma|3 years ago|reply
That mayor, Ökkeş Elmasoğlu, should perhaps run for president.
[+] [-] exhilaration|3 years ago|reply
And the funny thing (not funny but ironic maybe) is it seems people didn't like that mayor and were irritated sometime because "he was always too much by the book." Now I'm sure the people of that town are grateful to have a mayor like that.
[+] [-] pizza234|3 years ago|reply
> Construction amnesties, which allow owners to register unlicensed properties or ones that violate building codes in exchange for a fine, have made a bad situation much worse. Mr Erdogan’s government passed several such amnesties, the latest in 2018, ahead of general elections. The opposition backed the move, because it was popular with voters.
[+] [-] ornornor|3 years ago|reply
I can’t imagine how much pressure and intimidation this mayor suffered to refuse bribes from (probably very) well resourced and connected individuals/cartels.
[+] [-] Oarch|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jl6|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] myself248|3 years ago|reply
"Do less with more and line my pockets along the way" is the problem.
If customers were _paying less_ for the substandard construction they're getting, okay that's one thing. But if customers are paying more, and they _think_ they're getting sturdy code-compliant construction, but contractors at one or more levels are skimming money and using substandard materials and techniques, then that's a corruption, enforcement, and auditing problem.
[+] [-] iamflimflam1|3 years ago|reply
I mean ffs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_cladding_crisis[+] [-] drorco|3 years ago|reply
Would it be a better situation if houses for sale/rent will have a transparent safety rating visible to tenants and contractors could choose whether they build expensive, high safety buildings, or cheaper, low safety buildings?
Might sound dystopian, but to me it seems like the preferable solution. I know I live in an old house that would probably not fit for an earthquake, but I also know that if I want to live in a safer house, I'd need to pay more or move to a less desirable location, so I'm OK with taking the risk that an earthquake will kill me while I'm in the house.
The question is whether the market could balance itself enough so contractors don't build just crappy houses and take all the new margin to themselves.
[+] [-] mschuster91|3 years ago|reply
For what it's worth, the "developed" Western countries have done just the same. Look at the fellow front page article about the train catastrophe in East Palestine or how virtually all companies got hit hard by supply chain interruptions - no matter if from Covid, the Ever Given or Ever Forward getting stuck, strikes, or whatever else tiny or small interruption, the key thing is that resilience aka stockpiles got out of fashion because they were seen as too expensive...
Cutting corners is an universal problem.
[+] [-] danielodievich|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisMarshallNY|3 years ago|reply
Doesn't seem to have changed things.
Japan, on the other hand, seems to have a really hard-core construction ethos.
During quakes there, buildings rock around like they are at a rave, and don't fall down.
If we ever have a big quake in New York, we're screwed.
[+] [-] mncharity|3 years ago|reply
Fwiw, I just now enjoyed "Local Geology of New York City and Its Effect on Seismic Ground Motions"(2004)[1]. There's also [2], less fun, but 2020, and has a more extensive soil map.
Briefly, NYC area has a moderate earthquake risk (a magnitude 5+ per century, two 6+ per thousand years), but "it is important to keep in mind that NYC buildings prior to 1995 were not designed at all for seismic loads"[2], and NYC surface is mostly class D medium-dense soil with glacial till and human fill.
[1] https://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=261... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Konstantinos-Syngros/pu...
[+] [-] seizethecheese|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kerpotgh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] college_physics|3 years ago|reply
This is a pattern that applies to every facet of human affairs: The declared "reality" differs from the implemented (real) reality. The key questions are only: by how much, and what happens when events force a comparison of these two "books": The one we choose to believe for expediency or profit versus the ground truth.
We can be fatalists and accept that this is "how things are". But that is not what history shows. Civilisation is a process of reconciling arbitrary, emotional, low-information, "fake realities" with objective, verified, cool-headed, facts about the state of the world. The closer we get to reconciling these books, the less we will suffer.
The only problem is that we can't emerge from our historical habits fast enough. Earthquakes, megafires, megafloods, virulent pandemics. How many wake up calls do we need? The game is over. We need to reboot to a better society.
[+] [-] ak_111|3 years ago|reply
Take for example the Grenfell tower fire in London a few years ago, almost a 100 people burnt alive and it came down to the management company economising on external cladding (against regulation).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire
[+] [-] m0llusk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pearjuice|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GalenErso|3 years ago|reply
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/10yw2...
[+] [-] eska|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wongarsu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gruez|3 years ago|reply
but in that picture, you can plainly see a bunch of other buildings in the background that also have "withstood" the quake?
[+] [-] kamaal|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 77pt77|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrlonglong|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LarryMullins|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jakub_g|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] c-smile|3 years ago|reply
But looking on that photo... You see bunch of vertically standing "levers" around. With their own resonance frequencies. Dynamic of their vibrations is quite complex. They may amplify effect in some places. Effect of standing wave and the like.
But that's also about building codes I believe.
[+] [-] mrlonglong|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajross|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] myself248|3 years ago|reply
Then run, don't walk, away.
Don't do tall buildings in seismic zones without the benefit of an incredible amount of engineering practice, inspections, audits, and enforcement. If you suspect the locals are corrupt, your safest place during an earthquake is a straw hut or reasonable facsimile thereof.
[+] [-] lmpdev|3 years ago|reply
Even a stratified random sample of a few dozen buildings per country (based on location, size and cost of development) would likely reveal any evidence of systematic failures
It would be a nightmare to establish something like this as every country's laws and building standards are different. I do feel like this is bordering on a human rights issue however (right to life, adequate - nonlife-threatening housing)
This is tangental but a similar idea (somewhat) works for ensuring less developed Commonwealth nations conduct voting properly. Developed Commonwealth nations setup Commonwealth Observer Groups (COGs) who sample voting places and occasionally provide security such as the recent PNG elections
[+] [-] 77pt77|3 years ago|reply
Things will not change.
Some empty gesture will take place to assuage the outrage but nothing will change.
Bets are open on who will be scapegoated for this.
[+] [-] INTPenis|3 years ago|reply
It's time for the people of Turkey to make their voices heard.
[+] [-] berkle4455|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tagyro|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PicassoCTs|3 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefaction
Its very scary and in particular near old city borders in the 70s its acute. https://earthquake.usgs.gov/hazards/urban/sfbay/liquefaction...
Preparations: Not alot you can do. Brainstorm and placebos.Lifeslides and ziplines. I dunno. I provide awareness and anlysis. No solutions.