>We’ve used publicly available job boards and self reported data points on European data pay to collect data for 500 jobs across 260 companies.
Unfortunately this isn't a particularly useful methodology. Pay data isn't a legal requirement in job ads in Europe (yet) and most job ads opt not to include the data.
I should have read the article properly, thanks for highlighting that quote. Thought I was massively underpaid (not far removed from 50% for the median at the experience level I'll have in 7 months) but, of course, the job ads that mention any salary will be the ones that have a salary to brag about.
I've scarcely seen a job ad in my area that mentions a minimum salary, only in bigger cities (>1M people) some bigcorps that need to be your cup of tea in the first place. That this only includes job ads with salaries mentioned essentially makes this useless.
Plus, not all secondary benefits can be converted to money (how much is working from home worth, the same as a few hundred days' worth of bus tickets? What about the time saved?), which I should also keep in mind when looking at salary comparisons.
Calling this Europe data when you're comparing data from 5 European cities is a bit exaggerated. We have 44 countries in Europe and even within a country there can be significant differences.
Those are the only relevant locations for somebody who is considering emigrating for career purposes. The other countries do not have job markets big enough and salaries high enough to merit the effort of moving there, considering we are talking about actual countries, with different languages and cultures.
Interesting article, but they don't link to the data, just suggest that you build the dataset yourself with Google. I'm also not seeing mention of cost of living.
> For ease of comparison we’ve converted all numbers to USD ($).
That seems a strange choice, given that this is Europe. The target market for this blog post must not be Europeans.
Hmm I wonder how they did the TC though since the value of stock has absolutely plummeted now.
On salary I'm well below the median value here despite being a senior engineer at a large international company, in a department that pays slightly higher on average.
Salaries in Europe are pitiful nevertheless, and then you've gotta add the 40% income tax and 25% VAT too :(
Are they really that pitiful compared to the global average? I think that in the English-speaking tech sphere we are just too inclined to compare to the US. But compared to the rest of the world, and outside of a few small low-tax hubs (Singapore, UAE, etc), they're quite in line with the rest of the job market.
(I do think we're getting fleeced in absolute terms, but that's nothing specific to the tech industry)
So, converted in USD, and comparing gross salaries when there's massive variations in cost of living and taxes.
I worked in the UK and the EU, made significantly more in the UK, but didn't have a comparatively higher quality of life.
This could be useful for a multinational looking into allocating its workforce, but I'd advise candidates to do a little bit more reasearch before packing up and moving...
Articles like these are complete garbage for any practical extrapolation and thus only really written as ad pieces.
Why? Because:
- cost of living isn’t taken into account
- and even if it were, the cost of living varies wildly from one city to another. So you’d need less generalised results
- converting everything to USD makes no sense when the article is supposed to be about European countries. And since exchange rates can add their own slant on figures, this isn’t really intended to be an accurate representation
- it also doesn’t take into account variations in professions (IT is a broad industry)
- where has the data come from? I wouldn’t trust any report that basically scraped job listing boards. So many European job adverts don’t disclose salaries, some do but never get filled because they ask too little. So do get filled but at a rate that differs from the advertised range (it’s not uncommon for salary haggling to happen once an offer has been sent).
This article will surely generate conversation but please be aware that it’s far too unscientific to be worth drawing any conclusions from.
Cost of living doesn’t have to be taken into account in a salary analysis because everyone has a different cost of living. It’s not called a “quality of life” analysis.
I said it above and I’m going to repeat it here: what’s the point of adjustment? I might have completely different cost structure than you. The lifestyle was so different for people I worked with in Berlin.
The post has no methods section. So we have no clue what their data was, how they gathered it, how representative it was... nothing. I didn't find this particularly useful. Surely there is a group out there who's done a high quality (and ongoing) survey with reliable data on this.
I was quite surprised that the 75 percentile salary is highest in Amsterdam.
Anecdotally it seems that the top end of salaries is much higher in London than in Amsterdam, but maybe that doesn't show until the 90-95th percentile.
The median for EU vs US salaries seems likely to be around the same, but the high end in the EU is completely neutered compared to the US. Even in top companies like e.g. Meta, the pay in the US is significantly higher.
Because most of the companies are American and like to keep their best guarded talent close to home, I guess.
Also the corporate culture is entirely different. In a European IT company you won't get paid $600k for being an IC. You might get that level of pay, but as some kind of management. But as just one of the runts who does the IT? No way.
Peroni|3 years ago
Unfortunately this isn't a particularly useful methodology. Pay data isn't a legal requirement in job ads in Europe (yet) and most job ads opt not to include the data.
Publicly available salary is tricky but there's plenty of reliable, highly accurate pay-to-access sources like the Radford Aon Comp Survey: https://radford.aon.com/en-us/products/surveys/technology-co...
Aachen|3 years ago
I've scarcely seen a job ad in my area that mentions a minimum salary, only in bigger cities (>1M people) some bigcorps that need to be your cup of tea in the first place. That this only includes job ads with salaries mentioned essentially makes this useless.
Plus, not all secondary benefits can be converted to money (how much is working from home worth, the same as a few hundred days' worth of bus tickets? What about the time saved?), which I should also keep in mind when looking at salary comparisons.
tibu|3 years ago
bArray|3 years ago
"[Some] Europe[an] [City] [Large Tech] data salary benchmark 2023"
The _majority_ of people will not see anything even remotely like this pay on average.
studgraddesc|3 years ago
cianmm|3 years ago
> For ease of comparison we’ve converted all numbers to USD ($).
That seems a strange choice, given that this is Europe. The target market for this blog post must not be Europeans.
mensetmanusman|3 years ago
ZephyrBlu|3 years ago
dewey|3 years ago
Varqu|3 years ago
- DE: https://germantechjobs.de/en/salaries
- CH: https://swissdevjobs.ch/salaries
- RO: https://devjob.ro/en/salaries
- UK: https://devitjobs.uk/salaries
nivenkos|3 years ago
On salary I'm well below the median value here despite being a senior engineer at a large international company, in a department that pays slightly higher on average.
Salaries in Europe are pitiful nevertheless, and then you've gotta add the 40% income tax and 25% VAT too :(
leppr|3 years ago
(I do think we're getting fleeced in absolute terms, but that's nothing specific to the tech industry)
jahnu|3 years ago
jtthe13|3 years ago
hnlmorg|3 years ago
Why? Because:
- cost of living isn’t taken into account
- and even if it were, the cost of living varies wildly from one city to another. So you’d need less generalised results
- converting everything to USD makes no sense when the article is supposed to be about European countries. And since exchange rates can add their own slant on figures, this isn’t really intended to be an accurate representation
- it also doesn’t take into account variations in professions (IT is a broad industry)
- where has the data come from? I wouldn’t trust any report that basically scraped job listing boards. So many European job adverts don’t disclose salaries, some do but never get filled because they ask too little. So do get filled but at a rate that differs from the advertised range (it’s not uncommon for salary haggling to happen once an offer has been sent).
This article will surely generate conversation but please be aware that it’s far too unscientific to be worth drawing any conclusions from.
f6v|3 years ago
johannes1234321|3 years ago
capableweb|3 years ago
f6v|3 years ago
malborodog|3 years ago
jjevanoorschot|3 years ago
Anecdotally it seems that the top end of salaries is much higher in London than in Amsterdam, but maybe that doesn't show until the 90-95th percentile.
ZephyrBlu|3 years ago
US ($339k): https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-...
UK ($200k): https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-...
studgraddesc|3 years ago
Also the corporate culture is entirely different. In a European IT company you won't get paid $600k for being an IC. You might get that level of pay, but as some kind of management. But as just one of the runts who does the IT? No way.
ThePowerOfFuet|3 years ago
durnygbur|3 years ago
[deleted]
hcks|3 years ago
[deleted]