> For educated and affluent people who are predisposed to make long-term commitments, grow up around married couples, and understand the benefits it confers to themselves and their children, they choose marriage. Many others got game theory’d out of it.
> We have lost a lot of social cohesion. Defect is becoming the norm. So sexual freedom stopped “working.”
Yikes. So much to unpack here. The author treats marriage as the “correct” decision as if it’s a fact, then claims upper class individuals are choosing this “correct” decision, and that a “loss of social cohesion” is caused by “others” (implied lower classes). Oh and alternatives to marriage aren’t “working” (whatever the hell that means, it seems the author doesn’t even know).
This definitely feels like it was written by someone with a superiority complex who believes their opinions are fact. Getting married and having a family is not the right decision for everyone. Many people get married and have kids because of social norms and live miserable lives. Some people reject this norm and live happier lives alone. I don’t know why this is so difficult to accept. No one questions my preference for oat milk in my coffee, yet when it comes to my preference on marriage people start lecturing me on how “you just haven’t met the right person”. It’s the opposite. I’ve met plenty of right people, and I’ve realised that it just doesn’t work for me.
> I turned 30 while writing my forthcoming memoir.
I'm sorry but who is this guy and what has he done with his life to make it worthy of writing one's memoirs at age 30?
I am late thirties and I can look back at my twenties and know that it was a very stupid time. And if I don't make the same assessment about my thirties, when I am in my late forties, then I know that I am doing something wrong and not growing as an individual.
Then I thought, “who cares!” If he wants to capture himself at 30 told by the 30 year old version of it, this is the only moment in time he can actually do that.
I bet if he were to recount his 30s at a later time in his life, say 60 years old, the story and points of focus would be pretty different.
I’m still in my 20’s and even now don’t think I’d be “wise” enough to write much more than a “dumb crap I did in my 20’s” post.
A memoir, to me, is a story of someone’s most impactful time of their life. And I hope my most impactful moments come after my tumultuous 20’s, heck after my 30’s
>Rob Henderson has a Ph.D. in psychology from the University of Cambridge, where he studied as a Gates Cambridge Scholar. He obtained a B.S. in psychology from Yale University and is a veteran of the U.S. Air Force.
I have read a handful of memoirs written by persons around 30, and the ones that impressed me were memoirs of military service: Goodbye to All That by Robert Graves (yes, evidently he got various details wrong), The Killing Zone by Frederick Downs, etc. But in general I'd rather the memoirist have fifty years under his or her belt.
I'm in my mid-30s and definitely can relate to much of what this article talks about. For me this "crisis" started in my mid 20s, although I really can't relate to it as a "crisis" but more of an "awareness".
Around the age of 25/26 I was working as a software developer in SF and having the time of my life. Parties, dating, living in the city, spending all my money on rent.
Then I started slowly but surely to become aware of my age, and the fact that I needed to find a partner. I worried that if I didn't start to think about finding a partner, I might not find one in time and could end up old and alone. So I made a series of rather large decisions to be more (productively) social, and look for a partner. I did that, and got married. Bought a house. Leaned into my career.
Nearly a decade later now in my mid 30s I'm doing pretty good financially and am in a happy marriage of 8 years. But I am left with a feeling of "what else?"
For reasons that are my own, I choose not to have kids. Maybe that's the end of the story there, maybe you can attribute all of this feeling of "what else" to the fact that I'm not procreating and don't have children to pour my extra focus/worry/attention into.
I think that's a weak excuse though, and the real answer is more difficult to understand. I look back on my childhood as a magical, interesting time and modern adult life by comparison is rather dull. Sure you can do things to spice it up, but mostly its the same thing day in and day out. I'm trying my best to make peace with this and enjoy the routine, and have had some success, but definitely can't shake this depressed feeling of "is this it?"
Climbing the career latter is fun, traveling is fun, etc. etc. but none of it compares to that magic of childhood and the excitement for things.
Parenting is like being an NPC in that magic of childhood. You get to live through that again, just not as the main character. I imagine that starts again as a grandparent, but I'm not there yet.
Same here. I'm turning 32 on upcoming May and I've put my career in the back burner in favor of finding a partner. I think places like in SF or NY make it super easy for young/mid 20's folks to focus only on their career and very little else.
>But I am left with a feeling of "what else?"
I feel like this is a perpetual state that we human beings will find ourselves in. I feel like once you have something, there's that itch that wants you to get something more/else.
> modern adult life by comparison is rather dull. Sure you can do things to spice it up, but mostly its the same thing day in and day out
Adulthood tends to be about seeking stability, but that also makes things dull.
Instead of asking "is this it?", maybe ask "what's next?". If you focus on the past it will seem like you've done a lot, but if you're saying it's been dull that's probably not true.
Also you can always revisit things you thought you knew with fresh eyes years later and realize you just scratched the surface. I think even marriages and careers are like this. I think being able to begin again might be a skill in itself.
Your narrative sounds fairly standard to me, but I'm in my 30s and can't relate at all. My experience of life has been completely different. I suppose it's like a bell curve and stereotyping lives can only capture some people's experience
Wait until you get to 40 and you've seen enough beginnings, middles and ends of things that you have a greater understanding of how the world around you isn't forged in bedrock but is in a constant state of change. How you've been lead around by Madison Ave in a fear of missing out.
There is a joy of missing out that come in at middle age. You can honestly say to yourself that something isn't worth wasting your time on. Not out of a close-mindedness but because you been to those dungeons and they have been picked clean.
Well put. I love the phrase "you've been to those dungeons and they have been picked clean." And its unique to each person, it's like the dungeon gets picked clean for you or me, but may still offer value to someone going there for the first time.
I think the key is parsing throught it and figuring out which things are dungeons and which things are just me being jaded and cynical, and pushing back in myself for the latter.
> For example, the book outlines how in their thirties, many men enter the managerial ranks at work. Even though their primary occupational interest was not in executive functions but in their original work (e.g., engineering or accounting), men will often get promoted into being a manager. At this point, many men get stuck in a role that does not interest them.
Not just a problem in the tech industry! This is apparently a part of the human condition. That's some consolation at least. :)
I’ve been the most productive in my life since I turned 30. For whatever reason my ADHD dissipated and my mood is level enough to just grind away at things that don’t have immediate gratification. My 20s was the perpetual crisis it seems.
Great article, enjoyed reading it despite the top negative comments.
I think it really backs the "its not about the goal, its about the journey" theory, as it shows achieving your goals or not doesn't change how happy you are, rather how fast you can set new ones.
I don't read books, but it peaked my interest in trying to read that book, even though I know i won't actually do it.
kind of interesting, though i started skimming a bit at the end. wish it didn't make career and career progression seem like such an important part of people's lives. I think that could have been more insightful about people. might check out the book now though.
30s is weird, i feel like its the time when people really just stopped giving life advice. everyone tells you how to live your childhood, tees, early 20s, late 20s post college life.
>A man’s sense of well-being will depend on his own evaluation of how far and how fast he is moving toward his goals.
Giacomo Leopardi, an italian poet, believed that happines was not reaching one goal, but the meaningful journey of the pursuit. Probably (my thoughts) because we get bored easily by staying idle at whatever stage in life
[+] [-] shortcake27|3 years ago|reply
> We have lost a lot of social cohesion. Defect is becoming the norm. So sexual freedom stopped “working.”
Yikes. So much to unpack here. The author treats marriage as the “correct” decision as if it’s a fact, then claims upper class individuals are choosing this “correct” decision, and that a “loss of social cohesion” is caused by “others” (implied lower classes). Oh and alternatives to marriage aren’t “working” (whatever the hell that means, it seems the author doesn’t even know).
This definitely feels like it was written by someone with a superiority complex who believes their opinions are fact. Getting married and having a family is not the right decision for everyone. Many people get married and have kids because of social norms and live miserable lives. Some people reject this norm and live happier lives alone. I don’t know why this is so difficult to accept. No one questions my preference for oat milk in my coffee, yet when it comes to my preference on marriage people start lecturing me on how “you just haven’t met the right person”. It’s the opposite. I’ve met plenty of right people, and I’ve realised that it just doesn’t work for me.
[+] [-] verall|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cafard|3 years ago|reply
But if it's not for you, spare yourself and some prospective partner the unhappiness.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pdntspa|3 years ago|reply
I'm sorry but who is this guy and what has he done with his life to make it worthy of writing one's memoirs at age 30?
I am late thirties and I can look back at my twenties and know that it was a very stupid time. And if I don't make the same assessment about my thirties, when I am in my late forties, then I know that I am doing something wrong and not growing as an individual.
[+] [-] dirtbag__dad|3 years ago|reply
Then I thought, “who cares!” If he wants to capture himself at 30 told by the 30 year old version of it, this is the only moment in time he can actually do that.
I bet if he were to recount his 30s at a later time in his life, say 60 years old, the story and points of focus would be pretty different.
[+] [-] spacephysics|3 years ago|reply
A memoir, to me, is a story of someone’s most impactful time of their life. And I hope my most impactful moments come after my tumultuous 20’s, heck after my 30’s
[+] [-] morelinks|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _madmax_|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cafard|3 years ago|reply
I have read a handful of memoirs written by persons around 30, and the ones that impressed me were memoirs of military service: Goodbye to All That by Robert Graves (yes, evidently he got various details wrong), The Killing Zone by Frederick Downs, etc. But in general I'd rather the memoirist have fifty years under his or her belt.
[+] [-] danjc|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rubicon33|3 years ago|reply
Around the age of 25/26 I was working as a software developer in SF and having the time of my life. Parties, dating, living in the city, spending all my money on rent.
Then I started slowly but surely to become aware of my age, and the fact that I needed to find a partner. I worried that if I didn't start to think about finding a partner, I might not find one in time and could end up old and alone. So I made a series of rather large decisions to be more (productively) social, and look for a partner. I did that, and got married. Bought a house. Leaned into my career.
Nearly a decade later now in my mid 30s I'm doing pretty good financially and am in a happy marriage of 8 years. But I am left with a feeling of "what else?"
For reasons that are my own, I choose not to have kids. Maybe that's the end of the story there, maybe you can attribute all of this feeling of "what else" to the fact that I'm not procreating and don't have children to pour my extra focus/worry/attention into.
I think that's a weak excuse though, and the real answer is more difficult to understand. I look back on my childhood as a magical, interesting time and modern adult life by comparison is rather dull. Sure you can do things to spice it up, but mostly its the same thing day in and day out. I'm trying my best to make peace with this and enjoy the routine, and have had some success, but definitely can't shake this depressed feeling of "is this it?"
Climbing the career latter is fun, traveling is fun, etc. etc. but none of it compares to that magic of childhood and the excitement for things.
[+] [-] CUViper|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pknomad|3 years ago|reply
>But I am left with a feeling of "what else?"
I feel like this is a perpetual state that we human beings will find ourselves in. I feel like once you have something, there's that itch that wants you to get something more/else.
[+] [-] sublinear|3 years ago|reply
Adulthood tends to be about seeking stability, but that also makes things dull.
Instead of asking "is this it?", maybe ask "what's next?". If you focus on the past it will seem like you've done a lot, but if you're saying it's been dull that's probably not true.
Also you can always revisit things you thought you knew with fresh eyes years later and realize you just scratched the surface. I think even marriages and careers are like this. I think being able to begin again might be a skill in itself.
[+] [-] dwaltrip|3 years ago|reply
What brings you the most joy and contentment? What do you find meaningful? Are you doing these things, even a little? If not, why?
What makes a good life? How can you make your life more like that?
Is there anything you are afraid of that you haven't faced yet? Any pain or grief you aren't letting go of?
Best wishes to you :) If you get something out of those questions, try checking back in a year and seeing if there is more juice to squeeze.
[+] [-] archagon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vitehozonage|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] empressplay|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hungryforcodes|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sjellen|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iancmceachern|3 years ago|reply
I think the key is parsing throught it and figuring out which things are dungeons and which things are just me being jaded and cynical, and pushing back in myself for the latter.
[+] [-] frupert52|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seymourhersh|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] claudiulodro|3 years ago|reply
Not just a problem in the tech industry! This is apparently a part of the human condition. That's some consolation at least. :)
[+] [-] pram|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] not_me_ever|3 years ago|reply
A 30 year old, writing his memoirs, and telling people about the "seasons of a man's life".
Dude, you barely completed the tutorial.
Come back when you are 80+
[+] [-] jacooper|3 years ago|reply
I don't read books, but it peaked my interest in trying to read that book, even though I know i won't actually do it.
[+] [-] tayo42|3 years ago|reply
30s is weird, i feel like its the time when people really just stopped giving life advice. everyone tells you how to live your childhood, tees, early 20s, late 20s post college life.
[+] [-] kwere|3 years ago|reply
>A man’s sense of well-being will depend on his own evaluation of how far and how fast he is moving toward his goals.
Giacomo Leopardi, an italian poet, believed that happines was not reaching one goal, but the meaningful journey of the pursuit. Probably (my thoughts) because we get bored easily by staying idle at whatever stage in life
[+] [-] d23|3 years ago|reply