I'm a veteran calcium oxalate stone former; I've ended up in hospital three times because of them, and my last scan showed I currently am carrying 16 of them, (plus 3 bonus bladder stones). I'd thought I'd pass on what I've learned in the last 30 years; if helps one person, then I've been useful.
1. Drink lots of water (actually a very dilute lime juice/cranberry juice mix). I aim for 4 litres/1 gallon a day, more in hot weather.
2. Don't drink spirits (specifically - note to self - half a bottle of bourbon, no matter how delicious). They cause some weird kind of dehydration, which makes the stones painful.
3. If you start getting discomfort from a stone, drink more water. It seems to 'float' them somehow, and can usually make the discomfort go away.
4. The stones act like little breeding grounds for bacteria. So, if you have stones you will be prone to chronic infections. If you are a chap, then this can lead to chronic bacterial prostatitus, which can cause all manner of problems, leading to a having a catheter fitted. But, if you have bladder stones, the stones will break the little plastic widget that stops the catheter from falling out, which means it has to be refitted. So, you may need to take a low-level antibiotic like nitrofuratoin (there is some evidence that cranberry juice can also help, because it reduces the stickiness of bacteria).
5. If you are passing a stone, and they offer you morphine, decline it and hold out for something more powerful. Morphine seems to contract the tubes, only offers partial relief, and makes the problem worse in my experience. I once had an IM injection of (something beginning with pent~ - I wasn't in the mood to take notes at the time) which worked very well.
6. Avoid foods containing high oxalate levels, like spinach.
7. Don't take medical advice from strangers on the internet (like me).
Calcium stones run all along the male side of my family too.. and I've had a few. The notion to me that lemonade would be helpful is counterintuitive. Generally we've come to understand that high doses of Vitamin C are part of the problem, because that's been something the men in my family do to ward off sickness - but my father, who took 5000 milligrams of C a day for years, always got the worst stones of all.
>> 2. Don't drink spirits.
This is probably true, but it contravenes the one piece of hard-won family folk wisdom that has helped me. Our method of removing kidney stones is as follows:
1. Go to a bar, take a piss if you can, then sit and order a Guinness.
2. Order 5 more Guinnesses and make a concerted effort to drink them all without taking a piss. Wait until you're absolutely desperate.
3. Go to the men's room and eject the stone. [the intoxication helps numb it, too].
I've watched my father pass them in the hospital; I remember remarkably twiddling one of his kidney stones in my hand as we drove him home, it was iridescent white and about the size of a shriveled pea. So far, though, this method hasn't failed me and I've yet to be hospitalized.
I have a 15+ mm one. It's not going to pass and urologists already tried ESWL. They're waiting until it becomes a problem to remove it surgically because it will likely return.
Cola, excess vitamin C, and anything high in oxalate equal stone growth.
There are several stone types with different pathologies.
High citrate intake is generally good to counteract growth but there is no shrinking existing stones through diet. Anyone claiming this is a liar.
ESWL or surgery for anything larger than a few mm because passing would be brutal.
I got my first and so far only (fingers crossed!) kidney stone five years ago. At that time I started drinking lemon juice with hot water to start each day before consuming anything else, and it has so far kept any recurrence of kidney stones away. I really do believe the lemon juice has been key for me in this regard, and it is in any case a very healthy thing to do daily anyways (known and practiced by other cultures around the world).
Most folks who have kidney stones get them again and again, and anything that can help prevent this very painful event is critical. For anyone who does unfortunately experience kidney stones I highly recommend you try this option.
You're going to erode your teeth enamel like that. Hot water has nothing to do with it. Timing has nothing to do with it. Citrate and water increase; oxalate, protein, and cola decrease are generally important. Also, being endocrinologically stable is important.
See a urologist because they form silently again and again. Unless you have x-ray vision, it's impossible to know their status.
I've had a couple over the last few years. I've also started throwing lemon juice in my water bottle whenever I refill it. My urologist also suggested apple cider vinegar, I try to take a bit of that every day too (usually hot). It can help dissolve stones.
I personally don't find them particularly 'painful' more like profoundly uncomfortable. I find that I constantly am in a cycle of sitting for a few minutes then pacing around then maybe try and lay down, rinse repeat. A little heating pad time on my kidneys seems to make it less of a problem.
Increasing citric acid intake does seem to be helpful, at least for calcium oxalate stones (one of the more command kinds).
I've had more than a few stones over the past couple decades, and when I finally got myself in to see a urologist, that was one of her primary recommendations.
That, along with some other treatment, seems to have helped considerably (only one non-trivial stone in the last ~12mo & the few others were barely noticeable).
Oh wow actually reasonable use of “lemon derived” - I expected the usual “heavily processed with innumerable chemical reactions we converted oil from lemons into a new structure that in practice/volume would require starting with petroleum byproducts”.
This seems to be “we filtered these particles from lemonade and compressed them into pills to give to rats”
That said there’s also the required “in rats” missing from the headline, and I’m guessing the rats used are intentionally bred to get kidney stones, and fed a diet that encourages kidney stones, so the applicability to humans in normal cases isn’t a give . (Recalling the cranberry vs UTIs bs of a few years back)
I’ve known two people who have had kidney stones and I don’t think either of them would have been able to withstand the pain from the stone enough to go on a rollercoaster. Then again, maybe the promise of ending the pain will give enough motivation to grit it out.
One of the most painful things I’ve ever experienced. I let myself get way too dehydrated while exercising on a very hot summer day, which brought it about (though I was obviously susceptible to them). I started hydrating a lot more and taking
potassium supplements and luckily haven’t had them since. Thankfully I went to a great hospital, and the staff there knew how painful the condition is, so there was only around 15 minutes between when I arrived at the ER and when I had an IV of morphine in my arm.
Do you to think crystals can form that quickly to have been caused by a single day of dehydration?
I had one a couple years ago. My theory is that I had accumulated crystalization the year prior. I had a heart nerve issue and my heart rate was significantly reduced for several months, getting as bad as 30 bpm for a couple weeks. Normally it's about 80 bpm. My kidneys were definitely underperforming as indicated by blood labs performed when I ended up in the ED/ICU with "total heart block". With that problem resolved, my kidneys were happy again and the crystals presumably started to gradually dissolve.
My urologist dismissed my theory completely, but I've been generally disappointed by my experience working with them and I am on the verge of finding a new provider. My most recent ultrasound shows that the kidney that had the stone pass is totally clear, while the other kidney still has some crystalization.
Time I made a habit of drinking lemonade - a suggestion I'd have expected from my urologist, but not one I'm sorry to have run across whatever the source.
Yes, it's strange that my urologist has never mentioned it either. I wonder if this result applies to all types of kidney stones or just calcium oxalate.
I drink lemonade regularly (I make my own), but to prevent heartburn, as lemon turns into a base in your stomach and is very helpful with heartburn. Now knowing that it is also good for kidney stone prevention just puts the cherry on top!
I just passed 6mm kidney stone - the stone itself travelled its way out for 2 months. It’s calcium oxidate based, so no chance of easy dissolving.. if it’s possible at all.
I’ve had maybe about 4-5 days of strong, sometimes unbearable pain that I was taking painkillers for (without that much an effect..). Then few weeks of pain low down there.. Doctor wanted to give it a try for a “Via naturalis” passing, to which I agreed (no regrets).
I have few more stones, with smaller sizes now... My doctors always recommended me beer with some lemon in it. Once in the past, I passed a kidney stone for less than 24h of the first pain (about 4mm) right after drinking 3 liters of beer.
This whole thing sucks.
I'm a little astounded that there hasn't been a more effective physical intervention invented to handle kidney stones and gout. It seems like there should be a way to use high intensity ultrasound waves or something similar to break them up.
Ultra sound is pretty effective and a common treatment. Basically breaks the stones up and you pass them on. My father had treatment for this some time ago and I wouldn't be surprised if I have to deal with this at some point either.
Lemons are nice in any case so consuming a bit more of those is not a burden for me. You can work them into food and beverages in all sorts of ways. Probably you should be careful with sugary drinks like lemonade. I wonder what's so special about lemons vs. e.g. oranges, tangerines, grapefruits, etc.
The procedure is called extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy. The idea was seeded by the observation during WWII that under water explosions caused organ rupture in survivors of ship sinkings that were in the water.
Does anyone know if you can drink something to reduce the size of an existing stone ?
I know it’s likely a “no”, but any novel treatments on the horizon ? I’ve received EWS and it’s not fun, did seem to reduce the size of a big stone I had though, 20mm
My urologist suggested that apple cider vinegar can help break up some types of stones. I usually do an oz or so in a mug of hot water. Lemon juice goes into my water bottle whenever I refill it.
How does one induce more such nano particles to a preparation starting from a lemon? I don’t have a centrifuge, but is there a way to increase the concentration of such nanoparticles by using kitchen tools?
In some types a lithotrity machine can do wonders. Is basically being bombed with ultrasounds while taking a long bath, so could even be doable to DIY at home if you have some maker skills and for some reason can't go to a doctor.
The main concern should be to take serious care of not being electrocuted, put the speaker far and out of the water, protect your ears and assure that everything is well isolated. Using a 12 volt car battery as source of power could add a lot of safety.
Read a book for some time and then urinate into a piece of cloth in a strainer to see if it collects some sand. Rinse and repeat after some resting days for several weeks.
I don't know if this comment is intended seriously but just to be clear. Lithotripsy can cause acute tissue damage and long-term loss of kidney function.[1] The shock waves need to be carefully targeted at the stone and for the correct amount of time to reduce the risk of this, typically with X-ray or ultrasound. You can absolutely not do this at home!
I am not medically trained, and have only read up on kidney stones having seen a friend deal with them over several months.
No mention here of Shockwave lithotripsy to working breaking up the stones, obviously prevention is better than cure but at least in the NHS in the UK they can attempt to shatter the stones.
Also there’s several different type of kidney stones, of which 80% are Calcium:
Pretty good to know. For those of you that get gout and don't know about it, cherry juice is a good preventative and useful if you are having an attack. I will be making cherry lemonade a staple...
This is timely. I'm in hospital having just removed a 9.4mm stone from one kidney and some stones from the other. I don't want to go though this again.
For example, when tenderizing meat with pineapple or lime, only fresh squeezed retains the enzymes that break down connective muscle tissue. Cans of pasteurized fruit or juice have no effect.
I wonder if this effect requires the same fresh source.
[+] [-] goddstream|3 years ago|reply
1. Drink lots of water (actually a very dilute lime juice/cranberry juice mix). I aim for 4 litres/1 gallon a day, more in hot weather.
2. Don't drink spirits (specifically - note to self - half a bottle of bourbon, no matter how delicious). They cause some weird kind of dehydration, which makes the stones painful.
3. If you start getting discomfort from a stone, drink more water. It seems to 'float' them somehow, and can usually make the discomfort go away.
4. The stones act like little breeding grounds for bacteria. So, if you have stones you will be prone to chronic infections. If you are a chap, then this can lead to chronic bacterial prostatitus, which can cause all manner of problems, leading to a having a catheter fitted. But, if you have bladder stones, the stones will break the little plastic widget that stops the catheter from falling out, which means it has to be refitted. So, you may need to take a low-level antibiotic like nitrofuratoin (there is some evidence that cranberry juice can also help, because it reduces the stickiness of bacteria).
5. If you are passing a stone, and they offer you morphine, decline it and hold out for something more powerful. Morphine seems to contract the tubes, only offers partial relief, and makes the problem worse in my experience. I once had an IM injection of (something beginning with pent~ - I wasn't in the mood to take notes at the time) which worked very well.
6. Avoid foods containing high oxalate levels, like spinach.
7. Don't take medical advice from strangers on the internet (like me).
[+] [-] noduerme|3 years ago|reply
>> 2. Don't drink spirits.
This is probably true, but it contravenes the one piece of hard-won family folk wisdom that has helped me. Our method of removing kidney stones is as follows:
1. Go to a bar, take a piss if you can, then sit and order a Guinness.
2. Order 5 more Guinnesses and make a concerted effort to drink them all without taking a piss. Wait until you're absolutely desperate.
3. Go to the men's room and eject the stone. [the intoxication helps numb it, too].
I've watched my father pass them in the hospital; I remember remarkably twiddling one of his kidney stones in my hand as we drove him home, it was iridescent white and about the size of a shriveled pea. So far, though, this method hasn't failed me and I've yet to be hospitalized.
[+] [-] 1letterunixname|3 years ago|reply
Cola, excess vitamin C, and anything high in oxalate equal stone growth.
There are several stone types with different pathologies.
High citrate intake is generally good to counteract growth but there is no shrinking existing stones through diet. Anyone claiming this is a liar.
ESWL or surgery for anything larger than a few mm because passing would be brutal.
[+] [-] witnesser2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gchokov|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nrau|3 years ago|reply
Most folks who have kidney stones get them again and again, and anything that can help prevent this very painful event is critical. For anyone who does unfortunately experience kidney stones I highly recommend you try this option.
[+] [-] 1letterunixname|3 years ago|reply
See a urologist because they form silently again and again. Unless you have x-ray vision, it's impossible to know their status.
[+] [-] sleepybrett|3 years ago|reply
I personally don't find them particularly 'painful' more like profoundly uncomfortable. I find that I constantly am in a cycle of sitting for a few minutes then pacing around then maybe try and lay down, rinse repeat. A little heating pad time on my kidneys seems to make it less of a problem.
[+] [-] defen|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Sindisil|3 years ago|reply
I've had more than a few stones over the past couple decades, and when I finally got myself in to see a urologist, that was one of her primary recommendations.
That, along with some other treatment, seems to have helped considerably (only one non-trivial stone in the last ~12mo & the few others were barely noticeable).
[+] [-] throwanem|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moffkalast|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrexroad|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmarreck|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zadler|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kerpotgh|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mrtweetyhack|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] olliej|3 years ago|reply
This seems to be “we filtered these particles from lemonade and compressed them into pills to give to rats”
That said there’s also the required “in rats” missing from the headline, and I’m guessing the rats used are intentionally bred to get kidney stones, and fed a diet that encourages kidney stones, so the applicability to humans in normal cases isn’t a give . (Recalling the cranberry vs UTIs bs of a few years back)
[+] [-] pubby|3 years ago|reply
1) Roller coasters help dislodge and pass kidney stones because of their high-intensity jerky motions.
2) Although calcium supplements increase the risk of kidney stones, dietary calcium seems to reduce it.
[+] [-] malloci|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1letterunixname|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eigenvalue|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sgtnoodle|3 years ago|reply
I had one a couple years ago. My theory is that I had accumulated crystalization the year prior. I had a heart nerve issue and my heart rate was significantly reduced for several months, getting as bad as 30 bpm for a couple weeks. Normally it's about 80 bpm. My kidneys were definitely underperforming as indicated by blood labs performed when I ended up in the ED/ICU with "total heart block". With that problem resolved, my kidneys were happy again and the crystals presumably started to gradually dissolve.
My urologist dismissed my theory completely, but I've been generally disappointed by my experience working with them and I am on the verge of finding a new provider. My most recent ultrasound shows that the kidney that had the stone pass is totally clear, while the other kidney still has some crystalization.
[+] [-] bitL|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1letterunixname|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwanem|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kldavis4|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qskousen|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1letterunixname|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gchokov|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darkerside|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jillesvangurp|3 years ago|reply
Lemons are nice in any case so consuming a bit more of those is not a burden for me. You can work them into food and beverages in all sorts of ways. Probably you should be careful with sugary drinks like lemonade. I wonder what's so special about lemons vs. e.g. oranges, tangerines, grapefruits, etc.
[+] [-] car|3 years ago|reply
Dornier makes them:
https://www.dornier.com/products/
[+] [-] kevinak|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChatGTP|3 years ago|reply
I know it’s likely a “no”, but any novel treatments on the horizon ? I’ve received EWS and it’s not fun, did seem to reduce the size of a big stone I had though, 20mm
[+] [-] sleepybrett|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pama|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pvaldes|3 years ago|reply
The main concern should be to take serious care of not being electrocuted, put the speaker far and out of the water, protect your ears and assure that everything is well isolated. Using a 12 volt car battery as source of power could add a lot of safety.
Read a book for some time and then urinate into a piece of cloth in a strainer to see if it collects some sand. Rinse and repeat after some resting days for several weeks.
Or you can go to a discotheque
[+] [-] Earwig|3 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2900184/
[+] [-] dtgriscom|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zeristor|3 years ago|reply
No mention here of Shockwave lithotripsy to working breaking up the stones, obviously prevention is better than cure but at least in the NHS in the UK they can attempt to shatter the stones.
Also there’s several different type of kidney stones, of which 80% are Calcium:
https://www.healthhub.sg/a-z/diseases-and-conditions/629/kid...
[+] [-] zeristor|3 years ago|reply
Gives a new option for the old saying “If someone gives you Lemons, use them to treat kidney stones”
[+] [-] coffeeshopgoth|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zoklet-enjoyer|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jareklupinski|3 years ago|reply
I can drink that stuff with seltzer forever
[+] [-] beilabs|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thangalin|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnohara|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] el_don_almighty|3 years ago|reply
For example, when tenderizing meat with pineapple or lime, only fresh squeezed retains the enzymes that break down connective muscle tissue. Cans of pasteurized fruit or juice have no effect.
I wonder if this effect requires the same fresh source.