I was recently trying to figure out whether the microphone is usable when using my notebook in clamshell-mode. Turns out Apple added a privacy/safety feature to all Apple silicon-based Mac notebooks and Intel-based Mac notebooks with the Apple T2 Security Chip. It will hardware disconnect the microphone when the lid is closed, based on the lid sensors.
Pretty cool safety feature!! Even though I'm sad I can't use my mic in clamshell mode
In case you or anyone else needs to disable the MacBook screen and still use the mic, camera, keyboard, trackpad etc. I added a feature called BlackOut in my Lunar app that can do that (https://lunar.fyi/#blackout).
This allows "clamshell mode" without closing the lid. (although some people might want to close the lid for desk aesthetics, this feature is not for them)
On Apple Silicon with macOS Ventura the feature can really disconnect the screen by Command-clicking the power button: https://shots.panaitiu.com/x52NJxpR
The microphone is located inside the left speaker grille anyways, so it would be terribly muffled in clamshell mode anyways.
Note this is in contrast to previous models where the microphone had a tiny hole on the left edge (next to USB-C ports) and it could be used in clamshell mode.
Which at first I thought felt like a downgrade... but the reality is that your laptop isn't usually in a good position for mic pickup when it's closed anyways -- people often keep it off to the side or something, under a monitor riser, etc. While the speaker grille location, being front-facing rather than side-facing, is far better for picking up voice when using the laptop normally. And that anybody using a mic in clamshell mode usually already has one in their webcam or AirPods or headset or a dedicated mic anyways.
What does "silicon-based" - mean? What other computer is not 'silicon-based'?
--
Is there a way to mechanize the HW detachment of microphone connections at will while using the machine open?
That would be great - if you had a physical switch on the side of machine, which physicall moves the mic wire a mm away from the contact.
---
Weird thing - I put tape over my webcam at all times, unless in use, obv.
After some time I received a pop-up alert on windows 11 and it lasted briefly, and went away - but freaked me out: "You should unblock your webcam" or something to that effect, I dont have the exact wording - but it was an alert telling me to unblock visibility of my webcam - I think it may have mentioned something about UX reasons - but it happened so quick I missed all the wording.
Yeah - tape over your cams.
----
It would be cool to have a phone case where is the case screen-facing-flap is closed, it pulls the wool over the eyes of the front-facing cams, so even in 'sleep' mode when the case is closed, the phones cams are all covered... but the mic is a different creature.
------
Remember when NSA was intercepting cisco equipment to install HW back doors in devices shipped to 'enemy' states.
We have known forever about NSA HW backdoors...
but a case that can manipulate the HW MIC switchoff mechanism of a phone with such capability would be cool.
Else ; we need 100% trustworthy ability to disable our Spy-Pilots.
And how are we supposed to trust Apple that this is in fact what's happening?
With a Framework laptop I have a hardware physical switch and I can actually open it up and see the PCB trace and verify that it disconnects the microphone.
Just use a headset or external mic. If you're in clamshell you're probably at your desk/home office so that's quite reasonable.
Also nice - if I'm WFH and one of my family walks in with some drama, I close the lid, go clamshell mode, and I am quite sure any corporate spyware isn't listening in.
They have this feature but closing the lid on a MacBook or even putting it to sleep allows Bluetooth devices to stay connected. Heck, a MacBook even while in sleep mode will connect to Bluetooth devices. As far as I can see, this requires a third-party app to fix. Can an application still use the microphone on a Bluetooth device that’s connected?
I think you should be able to play music while the lid is closed. That seems like a reasonable use case.
Set computer up on a table, pair Bluetooth speaker, put on your favorite streaming service, close the lid and walk away, the music filling the room. Totally reasonable.
The best part is that closing the lid seems to put it into a "supershitty Bluetooth" state: I can be listening to music/podcast/audiobook from my phone, which is in my pocket, close the laptop and suddenly start getting "Connection <long pause> Lost" every 20-30 seconds until I go back to my laptop and turn off bluetooth.
The problem here is that people that use external keyboards and mice over BT expect to be able to wake their MacBooks connected to external displays even with the lid closed.
And the MacBook is so "greedy" that it will always connect to my Bluetooth devices before anything else can, forcing me to take out the MacBook, open the lid, sign in and disable Bluetooth.
Agreed, why can't the user override the rules for mice/keyboard vs microphone/speaker or overall? I never use my MacBook in clamshell mode. I would prefer that closing it cancels ALL Bluetooth connections and prevents reconnect as well.
I like how sleep works on my MacBook in that I can close my screen and open it back up to work in less than a second. On windows this doesn’t work. Half the time my dell or Lenovo freeze up and the other half it hangs for seconds.
However, I notice that it sleep mode it will have tons of network traffic and I wish there was a setting to make it really turn off when the lid is closed and not do anything.
Happens to me as well. when I'm turning on my wireless headphones and trying to match with my phone, the closed macbook is connecting to it first. this is annoying and requires me either to:
1. pair from scratch
2. go to the macbook, open it, turn off bluetooth.
Title was updated, but for context, prior to editing by HN mods, HN’s title for the post read, “Closing your MacBook hardware disconnects microphone, safety/privacy feature” — was confusing edit made by OP; current title now mirrors title on Apple.
Anyone have an explanation of how Apple actually decides what merits security and what does not?
(For example, it’s my understanding that turning turn off a iPhone, it’s bluetooth, etc — does not actually completely turn them off. Also appears hardware/OS specs vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction; for example, it is my understanding China limits a number of iPhone’s hardware/OS specs for domestic iPhones.)
When you bring up the option to turn off your phone, there's a toggle to let you turn off "Find my iPhone", with a decent description:
"iPhone Findable After Power Off >"
> iPhone Remains Findable After Power Off
> Find My helps you locate this iPhone when it is lost or stolen, even in power reserve mode or after power off.
>
> The location is visible in Find My on your other devices, and to people in Family Sharing you share location with.
>
> You can temporarily turn off Find My network and it will resume when this iPhone is powered on again.
>
> OK
> Temporarily Turn Off Finding
If you click Temporarily Turn Off Finding, you need to enter your passcode. This is to prevent phone thieves from just turning off your phone to make it untraceable.
My expectation is that if you Temporarily Turn Off Finding, the bluetooth radio is fully off.
I wish Apple would think about MacBook screens when the lid is closed. Too many times I've had to wipe clean the display after opening because the keys leave shapes on the monitor.
On the topic of closing and opening your MacBook, has anyone else had an issue where with an M1 any time they open it from sleep the cursor moves at like 20hz until you close it and open it again?
It’s been driving me mad and I can’t find anything about it online.
I wonder whether one would be able to do passive sound reconstruction using the laptops camera, sice it isn't being deactivated. I guess you would only be able to extract sounds lower than ~30Hz if the camera records at 60Hz, but that should be enough to detect steps for example. Not that this has real privacy implications, but I think that would be a fun way of disproving that no sound can be recorded.
I had no idea about the iPad microphone disconnect. That's cool enough to justify getting a new case. I wish they'd address some of their other products. Optionally enable hardware microphone disconnect on phones when placing upside down with their lockdown mode. No idea how the watch microphone could be disabled.
Not only HW disconnect of the mic, but the speakers as well. I want a switch on the side that does the equivalent of taping over the camera. No software can use them when they're off, period.
If I'm reading correctly, this also removes one of the 20 potential issues with clamshell mode. Unfortunatley there are still plenty of other issues with clamshell mode :/
I know some of the reasoning, but I find it really obnoxious the way it kills the wifi when switching users. I often am bouncing back and forth, I get the reasoning, but it would be nice if there was a setting to stop that.
[+] [-] janniks|3 years ago|reply
Pretty cool safety feature!! Even though I'm sad I can't use my mic in clamshell mode
[+] [-] alin23|3 years ago|reply
This allows "clamshell mode" without closing the lid. (although some people might want to close the lid for desk aesthetics, this feature is not for them)
On Apple Silicon with macOS Ventura the feature can really disconnect the screen by Command-clicking the power button: https://shots.panaitiu.com/x52NJxpR
There's also a write-up on how I reverse engineered this feature: https://alinpanaitiu.com/blog/turn-off-macbook-display-clams...
On older systems, BlackOut mimics a disconnect by setting the screen to 0 brightness and mirroring it to avoid windows getting trapped there.
[+] [-] crazygringo|3 years ago|reply
Note this is in contrast to previous models where the microphone had a tiny hole on the left edge (next to USB-C ports) and it could be used in clamshell mode.
Which at first I thought felt like a downgrade... but the reality is that your laptop isn't usually in a good position for mic pickup when it's closed anyways -- people often keep it off to the side or something, under a monitor riser, etc. While the speaker grille location, being front-facing rather than side-facing, is far better for picking up voice when using the laptop normally. And that anybody using a mic in clamshell mode usually already has one in their webcam or AirPods or headset or a dedicated mic anyways.
So all in all it seems to work out pretty well.
[+] [-] samstave|3 years ago|reply
What does "silicon-based" - mean? What other computer is not 'silicon-based'?
--
Is there a way to mechanize the HW detachment of microphone connections at will while using the machine open?
That would be great - if you had a physical switch on the side of machine, which physicall moves the mic wire a mm away from the contact.
---
Weird thing - I put tape over my webcam at all times, unless in use, obv.
After some time I received a pop-up alert on windows 11 and it lasted briefly, and went away - but freaked me out: "You should unblock your webcam" or something to that effect, I dont have the exact wording - but it was an alert telling me to unblock visibility of my webcam - I think it may have mentioned something about UX reasons - but it happened so quick I missed all the wording.
Yeah - tape over your cams.
----
It would be cool to have a phone case where is the case screen-facing-flap is closed, it pulls the wool over the eyes of the front-facing cams, so even in 'sleep' mode when the case is closed, the phones cams are all covered... but the mic is a different creature.
------
Remember when NSA was intercepting cisco equipment to install HW back doors in devices shipped to 'enemy' states.
We have known forever about NSA HW backdoors...
but a case that can manipulate the HW MIC switchoff mechanism of a phone with such capability would be cool.
Else ; we need 100% trustworthy ability to disable our Spy-Pilots.
[+] [-] dheera|3 years ago|reply
With a Framework laptop I have a hardware physical switch and I can actually open it up and see the PCB trace and verify that it disconnects the microphone.
[+] [-] r00fus|3 years ago|reply
Also nice - if I'm WFH and one of my family walks in with some drama, I close the lid, go clamshell mode, and I am quite sure any corporate spyware isn't listening in.
[+] [-] dclowd9901|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lovehashbrowns|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvirsky|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tagyro|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asveikau|3 years ago|reply
Set computer up on a table, pair Bluetooth speaker, put on your favorite streaming service, close the lid and walk away, the music filling the room. Totally reasonable.
[+] [-] Ensorceled|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elzbardico|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] babypuncher|3 years ago|reply
Also FindMy relies on BT to work.
An option to disable BT when the lid is closed might be nice, but it shouldn't be the default. I think most people do not want that.
[+] [-] gligorot|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexpetralia|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] captainkrtek|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snarf21|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vosper|3 years ago|reply
https://github.com/alb12-la/KBOS
[+] [-] rrauenza|3 years ago|reply
https://www.wired.com/story/bluetooth-scanner-car-thefts/
[+] [-] causi|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrexroad|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zamfi|3 years ago|reply
Drains the battery fast too.
[+] [-] prepend|3 years ago|reply
However, I notice that it sleep mode it will have tons of network traffic and I wish there was a setting to make it really turn off when the lid is closed and not do anything.
[+] [-] x3n0ph3n3|3 years ago|reply
~/.sleep: /opt/homebrew/bin/blueutil -p 0
~/.wakeup /opt/homebrew/bin/blueutil -p 1
1. https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/sleepwatcher
[+] [-] eligro91|3 years ago|reply
annoying
[+] [-] lxgr|3 years ago|reply
I don't see why not, given that it's also possible to use external wired microphones in clamshell mode.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] altairprime|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kokekolo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CryptoBanker|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] O__________O|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Reptur|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] O__________O|3 years ago|reply
(For example, it’s my understanding that turning turn off a iPhone, it’s bluetooth, etc — does not actually completely turn them off. Also appears hardware/OS specs vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction; for example, it is my understanding China limits a number of iPhone’s hardware/OS specs for domestic iPhones.)
[+] [-] meatmanek|3 years ago|reply
"iPhone Findable After Power Off >"
> iPhone Remains Findable After Power Off > Find My helps you locate this iPhone when it is lost or stolen, even in power reserve mode or after power off. > > The location is visible in Find My on your other devices, and to people in Family Sharing you share location with. > > You can temporarily turn off Find My network and it will resume when this iPhone is powered on again. > > OK > Temporarily Turn Off Finding
If you click Temporarily Turn Off Finding, you need to enter your passcode. This is to prevent phone thieves from just turning off your phone to make it untraceable.
My expectation is that if you Temporarily Turn Off Finding, the bluetooth radio is fully off.
[+] [-] behnamoh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Waterluvian|3 years ago|reply
It’s been driving me mad and I can’t find anything about it online.
[+] [-] iamspoilt|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unscrew5430|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kylehotchkiss|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AlbertCory|3 years ago|reply
Not only HW disconnect of the mic, but the speakers as well. I want a switch on the side that does the equivalent of taping over the camera. No software can use them when they're off, period.
Take back your privacy.
[+] [-] krzyk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sam0x17|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rileymat2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] coldacid|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bobleeswagger|3 years ago|reply
Me at 30: Cool.
[+] [-] al_be_back|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] teeok2023|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ouid|3 years ago|reply