As far as I know the "other times this has been tried" all have had individual displays (and controllers) in each key. The difference being that here there is just one panel under the whole board with most of the parts above the display being transparent. This approach should be far less complicated to build, more robust and cheaper.
Honestly, I don't think I need an LCD in my keyboard but I'd quite like to have a go on some mAgLeV hall effect switches! On that note, if you like magnets and/or keebs you might be interested in Void switches[0] -- 3D printable hall effect switches
Giving me major nostalgia for the Optimus Maximus (https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/) keyboard and its successors. This one looks like an interesting take now that displays are even higher resolution, have haptic feedback, etc.
I remember thinking the Optimus was _so fucking cool_. I think when it was first announced I was still in high school, and I wasn't even a programmer yet, so the utility of it would have mostly been lost on me, and the price tag was laughable. But I just thought the idea was so cool.
Definitely my first thought when I saw this too. That brings me back to the good ol' days.
Also came here to say this — I wanted to love the Optimus Maximus (perhaps because of a bad case of buyer’s regret generating a counter-force to maximise cognitive dissonance) but as a keyboard it was awful.
(Combined it with a BMW-designed Level 10 case; quite the looker but monumental and monumentally oversized.)
Same here :). But original Optimus has a screen in each key. This technically similar to a later design https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/. Which also had a single big LCD and transparent keys on top of it.
This is interesting... but I can't help but think how much better it might be if instead of a video background just had a simpler e-ink display for indicating
what the transparent key caps were for. The animation/videos are very distracting.
I never liked the Apple TouchBar or anything that required "active" attention away from the main screen.
E-ink is extremely expensive, especially at the size of a keyboard like that. Memory LCD would be more practical, but at that point the lcd costs the same and offers more power for those who want it.
There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen black except for the legends, probably
I think it'd be much better if they just had a simple e-ink display for showing what the transparent key caps are for. That way, you don't have to deal with any distracting animations or videos, and you can just focus on getting your work done.
And yeah, I totally get what you mean about the Apple TouchBar and stuff like that. It might look cool, but it's just another thing that takes your attention away from the main screen. We need interfaces that are designed to help us be more productive, not ones that are just flashy and distracting.
E-ink was the very first thing I thought of. Less power use, less glare, less distraction. Heck, I have the Logitech K800 Wireless Illuminated Keyboard and it hurts my eyes when the room is not brightly lit (unlike my Mac Book Pro's backlit keyboard which does it right).
I wonder about the parallax effect, since the display is a significant distance from the key tops. You can kinda see it in the short typing demonstration a third down the page. Though I never liked self-illuminating keyboards anyway.
I was thinking e-Ink too, it would allow the keyboard to be made wireless and have a respectable battery life of at least a week or two if not much longer.
I mean they're obviously going to make it so that you can set up the backgrounds however you want, and even if they didn't it would be a simple software update to make it so you can disable animations so I don't really think that that's a negative.
Yeah I’m not sure what the target audience is. I just bought a nice keyboard so I’m in the right market but I don’t really look at the key caps nor do I feel the need to have contextual buttons
I have used a LOT of custom keyboards, looking at an Ergodex DX1 on my shelf now. I wish this is something I could be confident in.
but, them not treating the screen as a display I think significantly limits the utility of this. You have to go through their software to customize the screen, layout, and customizations. Many of us know how hit-and-miss esoteric keyboard software tends to be.
If they stuck to making it an external display managed by the OS, polling the keyboard layout from the OS, and maybe just have their app apply custom functions like emojis and tool graphics I would have some confidence.
They are trying to tie up too much to their software which they will eventually stop supporting, like my DX1 paperweight.
The keyboard itself looks good but hardware vendors (including keyboard manufacturers) have a track record of making abysmal software. In fact, software should probably be their primary focus. From their FAQ it look like they want themselves to add support for every application. Will they have an SDK for other software vendors to add support to their applications? Being more open, e.g. making a github repo where anyone can contribute support for any application would be welcome.
> Truly hot swappable 84-key keyframes to switch between tactile keys and linear keys in just 2.15 seconds.
I think I love everything about that sentence.
An easy-to-clean keyboard could definitely find its uses in dirty environments. Even if the screen is glass, the keys should protect it pretty well. Depending on how scratch-resistant they are. For CNC, being able to customize the keyboard seems really useful.
It's interesting that they say you can play video on it due to the built-in 8 GB storage, but it's not available as a display to the host. Their point that the "mouse cursor could get lost on the keyboard" is a nice rationale, but it does feel like an odd limitation for such a powerful device.
I wonder how complicated it would be to allow customization based on SPAs. Their list of initially supported applications suggests they are not tackling web apps at launch. E.g. the Google Docs/mail suite would be interesting to me.
1. I don't look at a keyboard so there's not much point in making it look fancy.
2. I destroy keyboards in 12 months. Even good quality mechanical ones. I probably can't afford to own this.
3. It looks like bits are going to fall off it when I inevitably catch the edge of it moving from my mouse to my keyboard.
4. It doesn't have enough keys on it and the default positioned layout sucks.
5. It's got transparent bits. My backlit laptop keyboard already looks like a cat litter tray after a couple of weeks. This is going to require a lot of upkeep.
I think the only keyboard I actually like at the moment is the Cherry Stream SX TKL. Costs $26, feels like an old ThinkPad, has all the right keys in the right place, if you break you won't cry, no bits fall off it when you shake the crap out, it doesn't look like a Christmas tree on acid or ever like a cat litter tray. I had 11 keyboards to get to that and it was the cheapest one. Ugh.
> Each key is magnetically suspended with rare earth magnets allowing them to be 97% transparent and ultra low friction. Each switch has 4mm of travel and will be available in linear and tactile variants. They also feature a software adjustable actuation point in 0.1mm increments and rapid trigger functionality through analog hall effect sensing.
I think it's the wrong move to make this a keyboard, particularly a traditional typewriter layout.
My main question is: can the hall effect sensors be read as variable states instead of boolean keypresses? That could be really cool, especially with the display for real-time feedback. I can think of so many use cases: change the volume that hard. WASD like a joystick.
It would be even cooler if they were in an even orthogonal grid pattern like a planck keyboard. That would be a lot like the impact-pressure sensitive controllers that are popular in audio work.
I would love something like that too use as a macro pad: keys that have arbitrary meaning you can reference. Keys that behave differently depending on context, and show you the context in real-time. That would be incredibly useful.
But my keyboard itself? I don't want to look at that. That place is for muscle memory alone.
> can the hall effect sensors be read as variable states instead of boolean keypresses
Yes, there's hall-effect keyboards out now that you can configure to have certain keys provide an analog input, for use in things like racing games. Since the actuation point is entirely software, you can keep track of actuation distance.
Definitely makes way more sense for a macro pad--you don't hit those keys very frequently so switches are less significant but the key's effect changes often so the screen is useful. Tactility is good, I never liked Apple's Touch Bar for that reason, you had to look to be sure what you were doing. Can't imagine those switches being preferable for the primary keys, but would love to see something like this in the old IBM AT F or XT layout: 10 function keys in two columns on the left side where they could easily be combined with meta keys. Back when I had those (mid to late 1980s) I relied heavily on them, but I almost never use function keys since they moved to the top of the keyboard (and are effectively out of reach).
> I would love something like that too use as a macro pad: keys that have arbitrary meaning you can reference. Keys that behave differently depending on context, and show you the context in real-time. That would be incredibly useful.
You might want to have a look at Elgato's Stream Decks.
You don't have to look at the keyboard. If you touch type the switch to emoji key, with a little training your muscle memory can type the right emoji for you and switch back to qwerty.
If you will use QMK powered keyboard (or similar) you can even map mouse movements to the keys [1], so you won't move from keyboard at all. On my keyboard, I have wasd style mouse movement on ijkl keys, and it works quite well.
Weird - I saw this and thought ... "this is all great, but where's the trackpoint?" :D The only real ooo-ahh for us is if some fancy new keyboard design has a trackpoint. All the pretty lights don't match up to that trackpoint :D
I dunno what the software on this looks like (wrt writing a custom driver) but if you can add knobs it seems like it could pick up trackpoint wiggling around
I don't find the displays particularly interesting or useful on an entire keyboard.
What is interesting is they're using hall effect (magnetic) sensors, which have a vastly longer life than normal mechanical switches. That isn't new either, the Dreamcast had them way back in the day, and today Wooting sells keyboard with the same tech. This enables some very useful gaming features.
First, you can adjust the initial actuation point, so the keyboard registers a much lighter press, resulting in faster effective response times. Like Wooting, it goes all the way down to 0.1mm.
Second and probably more importantly, it supports rapid trigger, meaning the key instantly releases the instant you start to lift up your finger, and then it doesn't have a set actuation point so the key doesn't need to lift up most of the way before you can press it down again. This allows for much, MUCH more responsive controls which is a noticeable advantage in eSports games and some rapid-clicker games like Osu.
Thirdly and not very important at all, Wooting supports analog controls, so you can play driving games with your keyboard, or adjust your movement speed in a shooter. There are all kinds of issues with support in games, though, and it's unclear if the Flux supports it at all.
The problem with Wooting is it's expensive; the keyboard costs $175. These magnetic switches need to get down to a more reasonable pricepoint.
And the problem with the Flux keyboard is, well, it's even more expensive. Starts at $299 in the kickstarter phase, and will retail at $450.
I do find it encouraging to see more manufacturers using magnetic switches, and hope prices come down at the low end quickly. They're just plain better.
> Linux / Android / iOS - Limited compatibility (see FAQ regarding operation without installed software)
i.e. no, it can't be run without a Windows or MacOS machine to set it up first. Oh well, $300-450 was a lot for a keyboard anyways. (Well, not bad for what this is, but I have to tell myself something to feel better)
This is exactly what I've been dreaming of ever since Hall effect switches came back. It's very reminiscent of the old school Zboard keyboard that had physical overlays tailored towards specific games. This digital approach seems a touch more scalable.
It's a pity that they have one column of keys right to the Enter and Delete keys. I need empty space there because it's an anchor point for me. I tend to hit the key right to the Enter key whenever I want to hit the Enter key. My wife's laptop has this layout and it drives me crazy.
I already mailed them and I hope they can consider this.
I would really like it if these fancypants keyboards came in a layout other than the crunch-all-your-fingers-together-in-the-middle-for-extra-RSI design that the keyboard nerds seem to adore
Is my decades long quest for a keyboard that can switch between space cadet lisp mode and APL finally coming to an end?? I hope so. Hyper super meta alpha!
Always great to see innovation in the keyboard space! Looks like a pretty neat product. I was hoping to see some sort of mouse layer or mouse control like on the UHK.
The UHK totally transformed how I use my desktop. I literally don't even have a mouse to plug in now if I wanted to because it's been so many years since I needed it. If the UHK ever broke or went out of business, I'd be in a world of hurt. Shipping times for the UHK are abysmal. I think it took almost a year to get my UHKv2. I spent some time searching for a similar product but couldn't find it. I don't think implementing that in software would be too hard, although it would not be cross platform like the UHK is.
Anyone know of "mouse with the keyboard" solutions?
[+] [-] qwery|3 years ago|reply
Honestly, I don't think I need an LCD in my keyboard but I'd quite like to have a go on some mAgLeV hall effect switches! On that note, if you like magnets and/or keebs you might be interested in Void switches[0] -- 3D printable hall effect switches
[0] https://github.com/riskable/void_switch
[+] [-] ics|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agentwiggles|3 years ago|reply
Definitely my first thought when I saw this too. That brings me back to the good ol' days.
[+] [-] qubex|3 years ago|reply
(Combined it with a BMW-designed Level 10 case; quite the looker but monumental and monumentally oversized.)
[+] [-] insonifi|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anoonmoose|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sj4nz|3 years ago|reply
I never liked the Apple TouchBar or anything that required "active" attention away from the main screen.
[+] [-] shaunsingh0207|3 years ago|reply
There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen black except for the legends, probably
[+] [-] ar9av|3 years ago|reply
And yeah, I totally get what you mean about the Apple TouchBar and stuff like that. It might look cool, but it's just another thing that takes your attention away from the main screen. We need interfaces that are designed to help us be more productive, not ones that are just flashy and distracting.
[+] [-] jonnycomputer|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] layer8|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dheera|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway675309|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coffeebeqn|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mickdarling|3 years ago|reply
but, them not treating the screen as a display I think significantly limits the utility of this. You have to go through their software to customize the screen, layout, and customizations. Many of us know how hit-and-miss esoteric keyboard software tends to be.
If they stuck to making it an external display managed by the OS, polling the keyboard layout from the OS, and maybe just have their app apply custom functions like emojis and tool graphics I would have some confidence.
They are trying to tie up too much to their software which they will eventually stop supporting, like my DX1 paperweight.
[+] [-] jetzzz|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tommiegannert|3 years ago|reply
I think I love everything about that sentence.
An easy-to-clean keyboard could definitely find its uses in dirty environments. Even if the screen is glass, the keys should protect it pretty well. Depending on how scratch-resistant they are. For CNC, being able to customize the keyboard seems really useful.
It's interesting that they say you can play video on it due to the built-in 8 GB storage, but it's not available as a display to the host. Their point that the "mouse cursor could get lost on the keyboard" is a nice rationale, but it does feel like an odd limitation for such a powerful device.
I wonder how complicated it would be to allow customization based on SPAs. Their list of initially supported applications suggests they are not tackling web apps at launch. E.g. the Google Docs/mail suite would be interesting to me.
[+] [-] unxdfa|3 years ago|reply
1. I don't look at a keyboard so there's not much point in making it look fancy.
2. I destroy keyboards in 12 months. Even good quality mechanical ones. I probably can't afford to own this.
3. It looks like bits are going to fall off it when I inevitably catch the edge of it moving from my mouse to my keyboard.
4. It doesn't have enough keys on it and the default positioned layout sucks.
5. It's got transparent bits. My backlit laptop keyboard already looks like a cat litter tray after a couple of weeks. This is going to require a lot of upkeep.
I think the only keyboard I actually like at the moment is the Cherry Stream SX TKL. Costs $26, feels like an old ThinkPad, has all the right keys in the right place, if you break you won't cry, no bits fall off it when you shake the crap out, it doesn't look like a Christmas tree on acid or ever like a cat litter tray. I had 11 keyboards to get to that and it was the cheapest one. Ugh.
[+] [-] jvanderbot|3 years ago|reply
Ok sign me up.
[+] [-] thomastjeffery|3 years ago|reply
My main question is: can the hall effect sensors be read as variable states instead of boolean keypresses? That could be really cool, especially with the display for real-time feedback. I can think of so many use cases: change the volume that hard. WASD like a joystick.
It would be even cooler if they were in an even orthogonal grid pattern like a planck keyboard. That would be a lot like the impact-pressure sensitive controllers that are popular in audio work.
I would love something like that too use as a macro pad: keys that have arbitrary meaning you can reference. Keys that behave differently depending on context, and show you the context in real-time. That would be incredibly useful.
But my keyboard itself? I don't want to look at that. That place is for muscle memory alone.
[+] [-] MSFT_Edging|3 years ago|reply
Yes, there's hall-effect keyboards out now that you can configure to have certain keys provide an analog input, for use in things like racing games. Since the actuation point is entirely software, you can keep track of actuation distance.
[+] [-] femto113|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amelius|3 years ago|reply
From the article:
> They also feature a software adjustable actuation point in 0.1mm increment
So probably yes.
[+] [-] xearl|3 years ago|reply
You might want to have a look at Elgato's Stream Decks.
[+] [-] pmontra|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kristopolous|3 years ago|reply
I really like how it's Not derivative. It doesn't look like an Apple knockoff product or some other coattail riding project. Refreshing.
Keep at it! This is the kind of innovation we need!
[+] [-] pcurve|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] insane_dreamer|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roter|3 years ago|reply
[0] https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb...
[+] [-] dschooh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] efficax|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] galkk|3 years ago|reply
[1]: https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/docs/feature...
[+] [-] bigpeopleareold|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] E39M5S62|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adolph|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pyrolistical|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Avshalom|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] calvinmorrison|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mackrevinack|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hendersoon|3 years ago|reply
What is interesting is they're using hall effect (magnetic) sensors, which have a vastly longer life than normal mechanical switches. That isn't new either, the Dreamcast had them way back in the day, and today Wooting sells keyboard with the same tech. This enables some very useful gaming features.
First, you can adjust the initial actuation point, so the keyboard registers a much lighter press, resulting in faster effective response times. Like Wooting, it goes all the way down to 0.1mm.
Second and probably more importantly, it supports rapid trigger, meaning the key instantly releases the instant you start to lift up your finger, and then it doesn't have a set actuation point so the key doesn't need to lift up most of the way before you can press it down again. This allows for much, MUCH more responsive controls which is a noticeable advantage in eSports games and some rapid-clicker games like Osu.
Thirdly and not very important at all, Wooting supports analog controls, so you can play driving games with your keyboard, or adjust your movement speed in a shooter. There are all kinds of issues with support in games, though, and it's unclear if the Flux supports it at all.
The problem with Wooting is it's expensive; the keyboard costs $175. These magnetic switches need to get down to a more reasonable pricepoint.
And the problem with the Flux keyboard is, well, it's even more expensive. Starts at $299 in the kickstarter phase, and will retail at $450.
I do find it encouraging to see more manufacturers using magnetic switches, and hope prices come down at the low end quickly. They're just plain better.
[+] [-] LordDragonfang|3 years ago|reply
>The keyboard will cost between US$299 - $350 after discounts for pre-orders with a retail price of US$450.
That's... not as high as I thought it might be, considering how expensive mechanical keyboards can get and how esoteric of a product this is.
[+] [-] yjftsjthsd-h|3 years ago|reply
i.e. no, it can't be run without a Windows or MacOS machine to set it up first. Oh well, $300-450 was a lot for a keyboard anyways. (Well, not bad for what this is, but I have to tell myself something to feel better)
[+] [-] nayuki|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] von_lohengramm|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _nalply|3 years ago|reply
I already mailed them and I hope they can consider this.
[+] [-] pdntspa|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shaunxcode|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freedomben|3 years ago|reply
The UHK totally transformed how I use my desktop. I literally don't even have a mouse to plug in now if I wanted to because it's been so many years since I needed it. If the UHK ever broke or went out of business, I'd be in a world of hurt. Shipping times for the UHK are abysmal. I think it took almost a year to get my UHKv2. I spent some time searching for a similar product but couldn't find it. I don't think implementing that in software would be too hard, although it would not be cross platform like the UHK is.
Anyone know of "mouse with the keyboard" solutions?