When researching family cars recently, I literally avoided the Honda CR-V just because the AC was controlled via the touch screen.
There's a "Climate" button, which brings up a screen on the display where you can turn the aircon on/off, up/down, etc. It's just horrendous. Give me my dials.
My worst gripe - which all modern cars have - is the aggressive bluetooth auto-connect. If my wife takes the car, it will automatically connect to my phone in the house and start playing whatever was last playing. If I'm using headphones, it will just pinch the audio from them. I cannot disable this. Drives me absolutely nuts (no pun intended).
The other day, I was taking a call on my iPhone, over the earpiece, in my office suite's lobby.
The connection was rock solid, and then out of nowhere the audio just disappeared, without warning … but the call didn't drop. A few seconds later it returned. The person on the other end said they heard what sounded like a child for a second. I was perplexed.
Fast forward a week, and this happens again. I look at the call screen, and notice that the audio is being routed to Bluetooth? Opening it, it says I'm connected to my car. Not possible: I'm here, in my office, took a bus in.
I look up, baffled, and happen to see my wife drive by, 40 feet away, through a concrete wall and some glass.
My Mazda CX-5 has buttons for A/C control but I'm still annoyed because my '99 Civic had knobs which are infinitely better. One for temp, one for fan. That's all I need. Don't want no stinking buttons for fan intensity in a row of 100 other buttons.
This is why I always turn off Bluetooth when watching porn, otherwise my phone auto-connects to my wife’s Mini Cooper when she drives into the garage. DAMN YOU AUTO-CONNECT!!
My 'solution' is: _Maximum_ 1 (one, one!) Bluetooth 'master' (e.g. phone) device per 'slave device' (e.g. headphones, speaker). That means, if your friend asks if they can connect to your speaker the answer is "Sorry, no.". If you want to use headphones on your laptop and your phone, you need to buy two headphones, etc.
For really problematic appliances, like cars, I just deactivate Bluetooth. Not worth the pain. For audio in the car, I use a portable speaker. :shrug:
[1] Proof: Many people can't even pronounce it
[2] I've bought two, different, new 3k bucks computers that never got the Bluetooth work with anything (yes, they run Windows).
[3] I have a 200 bucks Victron SmartShunt in my van to monitor my battery. Can't connect to it anymore with any device (yes, its Bluetooth). Will have to buy an expensive external display (at least that exists) and crawl on the floor to read it.
You read my rant this far? Congrats. Have a nice day :-)
I'm willing to accept climate controls within a touch interface so long as the "auto" mode is as competent as the auto mode in my 2013 BMW 1-series. I set it to 22°C at medium intensity. It's rare that I ever have to touch the climate controls, and exceedingly rare that I need to touch the climate controls while in motion. The only manual intervention I perform toggling "max AC" for a few minutes on an especially hot day — and that's pressed while not in motion.
I've used "auto" modes in many cars and they're often rubbish. For example blasting unpleasant hot air in your face if you ask for 22°C and it's 21°C outside. Whereas the "stratification" feature of BMW climate control means the upper vents will never blow hot air in your face unless you override it.
FWIW - just bought a 23 CRV for my wife because of the abundance of analog controls. Not sure what on screen display you were seeing, we use the knobs exclusively.
You might want to look at tasker to have it enable Bluetooth when you're not at home or something similar.
Also, on most cars you can change the priority of phones, moving yours down would help.
The other day my mom was at our house, parked next to me. She got in her car to leave at the same time I did. I pulled out my phone and put on some music - noting that it was weird that I needed to do anything at all, typically it just resumes playing as soon as it connects to Bluetooth.
But I didn't get any audio. That's weird. Until she drove away and the music started playing through my phone's speaker a few seconds later, and I realized that it connected to the wrong head unit.
> it will automatically connect to my phone in the house and start playing whatever was last playing
If it's an iPhone you could use automations (Shortcuts app which is preinstalled) to auto-pause music whenever it connects to bluetooth and launches CarPlay. I have done it and works like charm.
> If I'm using headphones, it will just pinch the audio from them.
Man the bluetooth protocol really is something. Never connects when you want it to, won't pair or unpair, but when you don't want to use it it'll force a connect.
And the thing is practically wifi, I am always at a loss as to how did they manage to mess it up so badly.
> I cannot disable this. Drives me absolutely nuts
Does this actually happen even if you're using bluetooth headphones? Or just wired headphones.
Because if it's bluetooth headphones that's pretty surprising.
If you mean you're using wired headphones, I realize this is obvious, but you can just turn bluetooth off on your phone when you're not using it. Arguably, you should, since bluetooth drains the battery for no reason and leads to more electronmagnetic 'noise' in the house (interfering with other bluetooth devices) as well as draining the battery on your phone, and possibly having negative effects on your health if you talk while holding your phone to your head
Ironically, the last time my family purchased a "newer" car (2015), we avoided the Ford Flex and instead purchased a Honda Pilot because the Pilot didn't have a touchscreen for anything. We currently have a 2022 Nissan Altima as a rental (one of the kids totaled the beater 2004 Subaru Forester), and while climate controls still use buttons and knobs, everything else is controlled via a tablet-like touchscreen. I hate it.
The sibling comments here are hilarious, but I actually prefer the Bluetooth auto-connect. "When it works" it's even better than a headphone jack. There is definitely more room for customization of the nuance, though. I could easily see a per-device setting on the phone to allow it to pair automatically or manually.
Extending this topic, I've also had my phone calls hijacked by my wife who has just started the engine and is about to drive out. Happened to her when I took the car too. It brings a great deal of confusion as to wtf happened to our phone calls.
I always wondered why they couldn't prioritize devices close to the system over others
Wonderful. I recently rented a model 3 and found it incredibly frustrating that it required multiple touches to adjust settings that would be a single button press on a more traditional car. Don’t even get me started on the windshield wipers - a total nightmare in winter storms and located on the left stalk? These are safety concerns. As long as humans are operating these dangerous vehicles, I vote for fewer driver distractions.
Both buttons and touchscreens have a place in a car... especially ergonomic buttons in just the right place and a well made touchscreen gui.
All the things that the driver might ever do during driving (blinkers, lights, radio, ac,...) should always be controlled by a physical button, that is easy to find by touch only, even in the dark.
On the other hand, reseting TPMS (air pressure system) sensors, looking at service history, internal error display, setting "welcome home" interval (delay with turning the lights off when parking), etc, are much easier done on a touchscreen with a nice menu with all the settings.
Somehow car manufacturers like the extremes... either you use a touchscreen to turn on the ac, with a few popups first, maybe even an autoplaying ad before you can change the temperature... or you have to press six random buttons at the same time and count the number of blinks of a random led on the dashboard to navigate the "menu" to change a not-everyday setting on the car.
Four grids of uniform buttons, they think that's an improvement over a touchscreen? There is zero practical distinction between taking your eyes off the road to see which button you're pushing vs taking your eyes of the road to see which part of the screen you're touching.
GOOD HVAC/radio design means you can perform ALL essential functions WITHOUT taking your eyes off the road AT ALL, once you've spent five seconds learning what's where. The controls should be in locations where it's hard to mistake one thing for another. The controls should also be differently shaped and different types. Give us knobs and sliders!
That's wonderful, I hope other car makers realize how distracting and dangerous touch controls are for a driver's ability to focus on driving.
My car has physical controls for most things, and I use CarPlay for music/podcasts and navigation, and even for that purpose it's extremely distracting to use it while driving when compared to the physical interfaces for A/C, seat heaters, mirror adjustment etc. I generally avoid as much of the CarPlay interface as possible while driving.
Voice commands are not the silver bullet solution here, they have a lot of problems such as requiring all passengers to stop talking, and it interrupts the radio, podcast, or music, and generally it's awkward to use voice commands during a phone call. Voice commands are probably fine for some low stakes input like asking to call someone, changing music tracks etc.
That's great! I hope all new Hyundai's buttons are more readable than the darn things in mine. I thought it was just me, but nope, it's a common complaint. I can not make out a single word on my buttons, it's super annoying.
My wife has an ID.4, and they really have gone overboard with touch controls. You have only 2 sets of window controls (driver-side and passenger); you have to use a touch control to switch between front and back.
I bought a Chevy Bolt vs a Model 3 for this and CarPlay. It is so well designed and every time I need something it is right where I expect it.
Could I learn the touch interface? Of course, but driving is often done subconsciously and touch is not amenable to that type of automatic interaction.
I wanted a car, not a toy.
(I am aware of the irony regarding the unfortunate proportions of the Bolt making it look like a toy car… lol)
For long time I wondered why UI in spacecrafts is so inconvenient. Apollo computer UI seems to be lacking. Soyuz UI, while seems to improve over years (ha, it would be strange, over so many years...), still looks clunky. And then - Crew Dragon comes with touch screens. Don't they understand it's a big step back? There are benefits of "fluid" interfaces, but where is the attention to important features, ability to use "main" tools without re-learning where they are and how they look like, while having the tactile feedback?
I have been in the room, so to speak, when the design of a fusion reactor control room was being discussed. I feel the answer is simply: because engineers "design" these things.
I feel like the design of spaces is simply not considered very well if at all. I get the feeling that maybe aircraft do it best? Or at least that's the impression that I have had.
One big difference is that spacecraft crews actually train on their craft, just like aircraft pilots, and extensively. So they know what all the controls are for, what they do, what to do in an emergency, etc. When a pilot wants to fly a different model of airplane, they have to be retrained (or cross-trained rather) on that model, since the controls and procedures may be different.
For some strange reason, people expect to just jump in the driver's seat of a car and drive away with zero training.
Not only the buttons but also a lot of parts which are electric when they really don't have to.
My brother, who has three kids, tried out a SUV which had an electric hatchback, where you have to trigger the trunk closing with a button. With a manual hatchback he could fill all the luggage in the trunk and just slam the door, without any problem. But now the electric hatchback would not close if the car felt there was a luggage in the way.
In the end they had to remove the luggage, close the trunk and fill the trunk from the side doors.
Well, I wish BMW did the same. Wanted to go for the new BMW M2. But now instead of a well-integrated speedometer & central display they shaved it off of the dash and put in place this monstrosity of a wide screen. It's just bolted on with no sense of cohesion.
And with that the buttons for climate control are gone.
Want to turn on heated seats? Touch the screen.
Change fan speed? Touch the screen.
All things that I can do blindly (eyes on the road, not eyes closed, but you get it), which now require looking AND finesse, because if I mis press who knows where the GPS will send me next...
Good to hear it was made that easy. Last Prius I rented there was no way to display km/h and Toyota’s official response was “just buy next year’s model”.
Will this translate to their Kia brand? My EV6 has touch controls for the climate control, and the same "toolbar" flips between climate and radio controls. (it does have 2 circular knobs). On the next level trim, the controls for heating/cooling seats are touch and are notoriously easy to accidentally hit (though on mine they are buttons)
The cabin controls are okay on Hyundais, I guess. I remember having to use the touchscreen to set the rear temperature controls. This is confusing when the main screen is occupied by Android auto. So it isn't like you have button control over everything.
I'd recommend Mazda for getting pushbutton controls right.
Good on Hyundai! Other cars will go back to this, or will the NTSB make them?
Aviation has figured this out long ago. Look at any "glass" cockpit. They all have buttons around the screen. For example see linked [1] Garmin 1000 panel, common in General Aviation.
Amazing! When I bought my last car, I ensured there were physical buttons for everything I regularly use. While driving, most things happen without much thinking, and touch screens feel like the antithesis of that idea. I recently had to drive a car with a touch screen for, e.g. AC and radio control. I failed miserably to turn off the radio for 3 hours on the highway. I usually expect these things to be intuitive enough to do without reading the manual of a car.
For many of these UI designers the inspiration for a physical buttonless control panel might have come from the famous Steve Jobs iPhone launch keynote. In that speech he convinced the world why having physical buttons is a bad design choice. Obviously he was talking about just phones.
[+] [-] tastysandwich|3 years ago|reply
There's a "Climate" button, which brings up a screen on the display where you can turn the aircon on/off, up/down, etc. It's just horrendous. Give me my dials.
My worst gripe - which all modern cars have - is the aggressive bluetooth auto-connect. If my wife takes the car, it will automatically connect to my phone in the house and start playing whatever was last playing. If I'm using headphones, it will just pinch the audio from them. I cannot disable this. Drives me absolutely nuts (no pun intended).
[+] [-] gffrd|3 years ago|reply
The connection was rock solid, and then out of nowhere the audio just disappeared, without warning … but the call didn't drop. A few seconds later it returned. The person on the other end said they heard what sounded like a child for a second. I was perplexed.
Fast forward a week, and this happens again. I look at the call screen, and notice that the audio is being routed to Bluetooth? Opening it, it says I'm connected to my car. Not possible: I'm here, in my office, took a bus in.
I look up, baffled, and happen to see my wife drive by, 40 feet away, through a concrete wall and some glass.
Damn you, auto-connect. DAMN YOU.
[+] [-] 8n4vidtmkvmk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ad-astra|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qgin|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FrojoS|3 years ago|reply
My 'solution' is: _Maximum_ 1 (one, one!) Bluetooth 'master' (e.g. phone) device per 'slave device' (e.g. headphones, speaker). That means, if your friend asks if they can connect to your speaker the answer is "Sorry, no.". If you want to use headphones on your laptop and your phone, you need to buy two headphones, etc.
For really problematic appliances, like cars, I just deactivate Bluetooth. Not worth the pain. For audio in the car, I use a portable speaker. :shrug:
[1] Proof: Many people can't even pronounce it
[2] I've bought two, different, new 3k bucks computers that never got the Bluetooth work with anything (yes, they run Windows).
[3] I have a 200 bucks Victron SmartShunt in my van to monitor my battery. Can't connect to it anymore with any device (yes, its Bluetooth). Will have to buy an expensive external display (at least that exists) and crawl on the floor to read it. You read my rant this far? Congrats. Have a nice day :-)
[+] [-] simondotau|3 years ago|reply
I've used "auto" modes in many cars and they're often rubbish. For example blasting unpleasant hot air in your face if you ask for 22°C and it's 21°C outside. Whereas the "stratification" feature of BMW climate control means the upper vents will never blow hot air in your face unless you override it.
[+] [-] joshtgreenwood|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nixass|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nichos|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcronce|3 years ago|reply
But I didn't get any audio. That's weird. Until she drove away and the music started playing through my phone's speaker a few seconds later, and I realized that it connected to the wrong head unit.
[+] [-] vishnugupta|3 years ago|reply
If it's an iPhone you could use automations (Shortcuts app which is preinstalled) to auto-pause music whenever it connects to bluetooth and launches CarPlay. I have done it and works like charm.
https://www.guidingtech.com/how-to-stop-music-from-automatic...
[+] [-] moffkalast|3 years ago|reply
Man the bluetooth protocol really is something. Never connects when you want it to, won't pair or unpair, but when you don't want to use it it'll force a connect.
And the thing is practically wifi, I am always at a loss as to how did they manage to mess it up so badly.
[+] [-] pcthrowaway|3 years ago|reply
Does this actually happen even if you're using bluetooth headphones? Or just wired headphones.
Because if it's bluetooth headphones that's pretty surprising.
If you mean you're using wired headphones, I realize this is obvious, but you can just turn bluetooth off on your phone when you're not using it. Arguably, you should, since bluetooth drains the battery for no reason and leads to more electronmagnetic 'noise' in the house (interfering with other bluetooth devices) as well as draining the battery on your phone, and possibly having negative effects on your health if you talk while holding your phone to your head
[+] [-] ethbr0|3 years ago|reply
If you want audio to start magically playing in the car, and the car is often turned off...
You can't have the phone connect to it. Otherwise it would continually have to poll for a car, which would burn power.
Ergo, you have to have the car initiate the connection, which should happen when the car turns on.
Now, you could either have a "Confirm connect?" every time that happens or you could have it auto-reconnect.
In most circumstances, "Car-initiated, auto-reconnecting Bluetooth" is preferable to the alternatives.
Even if it does have bizarre and annoying UX failure modes.
[+] [-] bmj|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TylerE|3 years ago|reply
Just so much jank, and that’s before you get to most devices only supporting lossy encoding.
[+] [-] CGamesPlay|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] princevegeta89|3 years ago|reply
I always wondered why they couldn't prioritize devices close to the system over others
[+] [-] cdepman|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gorjusborg|3 years ago|reply
I recently bought what I thought was a car, only to find it is a tech-ridden abomination.
I want a vehicle that is reliable. I want a vehicle that is simple. I do not want a rolling AI/touchscreen.
Even just from a security standpoint I want minimal software in my car.
[+] [-] ajsnigrutin|3 years ago|reply
All the things that the driver might ever do during driving (blinkers, lights, radio, ac,...) should always be controlled by a physical button, that is easy to find by touch only, even in the dark.
On the other hand, reseting TPMS (air pressure system) sensors, looking at service history, internal error display, setting "welcome home" interval (delay with turning the lights off when parking), etc, are much easier done on a touchscreen with a nice menu with all the settings.
Somehow car manufacturers like the extremes... either you use a touchscreen to turn on the ac, with a few popups first, maybe even an autoplaying ad before you can change the temperature... or you have to press six random buttons at the same time and count the number of blinks of a random led on the dashboard to navigate the "menu" to change a not-everyday setting on the car.
[+] [-] bityard|3 years ago|reply
Four grids of uniform buttons, they think that's an improvement over a touchscreen? There is zero practical distinction between taking your eyes off the road to see which button you're pushing vs taking your eyes of the road to see which part of the screen you're touching.
GOOD HVAC/radio design means you can perform ALL essential functions WITHOUT taking your eyes off the road AT ALL, once you've spent five seconds learning what's where. The controls should be in locations where it's hard to mistake one thing for another. The controls should also be differently shaped and different types. Give us knobs and sliders!
Is anyone even awake in car design depts anymore?
[+] [-] mataug|3 years ago|reply
My car has physical controls for most things, and I use CarPlay for music/podcasts and navigation, and even for that purpose it's extremely distracting to use it while driving when compared to the physical interfaces for A/C, seat heaters, mirror adjustment etc. I generally avoid as much of the CarPlay interface as possible while driving.
Voice commands are not the silver bullet solution here, they have a lot of problems such as requiring all passengers to stop talking, and it interrupts the radio, podcast, or music, and generally it's awkward to use voice commands during a phone call. Voice commands are probably fine for some low stakes input like asking to call someone, changing music tracks etc.
[+] [-] blakesterz|3 years ago|reply
https://www.palisadeforum.com/threads/cant-see-buttons-in-br...
I much prefer buttons over a touch screen, but designers need to remember to make them readable.
[+] [-] mavu|3 years ago|reply
Keep pushing touch controls, I keep not buying your shit.
[+] [-] sandgiant|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ladberg|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EiZei|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdcravens|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dybber|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MobileVet|3 years ago|reply
Could I learn the touch interface? Of course, but driving is often done subconsciously and touch is not amenable to that type of automatic interaction.
I wanted a car, not a toy.
(I am aware of the irony regarding the unfortunate proportions of the Bolt making it look like a toy car… lol)
[+] [-] avmich|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bmitc|3 years ago|reply
I feel like the design of spaces is simply not considered very well if at all. I get the feeling that maybe aircraft do it best? Or at least that's the impression that I have had.
[+] [-] midoridensha|3 years ago|reply
For some strange reason, people expect to just jump in the driver's seat of a car and drive away with zero training.
[+] [-] fomine3|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ironmagma|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gorpovitch|3 years ago|reply
My brother, who has three kids, tried out a SUV which had an electric hatchback, where you have to trigger the trunk closing with a button. With a manual hatchback he could fill all the luggage in the trunk and just slam the door, without any problem. But now the electric hatchback would not close if the car felt there was a luggage in the way.
In the end they had to remove the luggage, close the trunk and fill the trunk from the side doors.
[+] [-] WirelessGigabit|3 years ago|reply
And with that the buttons for climate control are gone.
Want to turn on heated seats? Touch the screen. Change fan speed? Touch the screen.
All things that I can do blindly (eyes on the road, not eyes closed, but you get it), which now require looking AND finesse, because if I mis press who knows where the GPS will send me next...
[+] [-] ExMachina73|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wilg|3 years ago|reply
I don’t know why it was there but I did like to push it.
[+] [-] aendruk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dyno12345|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pif|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdcravens|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] havblue|3 years ago|reply
I'd recommend Mazda for getting pushbutton controls right.
[+] [-] miketery|3 years ago|reply
Aviation has figured this out long ago. Look at any "glass" cockpit. They all have buttons around the screen. For example see linked [1] Garmin 1000 panel, common in General Aviation.
1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garmin_G1000#/media/File:Garmi...
[+] [-] tanto|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] OnionBlender|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robofanatic|3 years ago|reply