[bkq]

Archived link: https://archive.is/xzPtR

The article says that there are similarities between the two industries, I see these similarities too between how the workforces are treated. Whereby Hollywood VFX workers are overworked and underpaid, and some even end up going under, and the Academy is always there to stomp out their protest during the few minutes they get at the Oscars [1]. Much like with game development, where waves of contractors are hired, then subsequently fired [2], or being just subjected to endless crunch [3]. I think it's fair to say that game dev companies are the sweatshops of the tech industry, and I feel for anyone who wants to break into what otherwise could be a creative industry.

[1] - https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-xpm-2013-f...

[2] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/12/03/raven-...

[3] - https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/23/18507750/fortnite-work-cru...

[hutzlibu]

"and the Academy is always there to stomp out their protest during the few minutes they get at the Oscars"

Hm, I have no knowledge or connection to the events, but "stomping out protests" made me expect a bit more dramatic events, than stopping someones speech, after his time was up.

"But Westenhofer’s speech was cut off mid-sentence after he used up his allotted time"

[bkq]

It's something the Academy has always engaged in, is with cutting of the microphone of the VFX artists. Other people are not treated like this.

[indigochill]

I'm not sure that game dev as a gig economy would be the worst thing. Make a thing, get paid, move on. Especially since a traditional game (not MMO or "game as a service") has a natural beginning, middle, and end of development.

Plus I assume if you're an independent contractor (not working in an outsourced sweatshop) you have more leverage to stand your ground against nonsense like crunch. But I'm fantasizing that because I've never done contract work so I don't know if that's really the case.

[whitemary]

Your assumption is 100% wrong and I couldn't imagine what on Earth gives you that idea. In fact, I am not convinced you actually believe that yourself. I don't believe you've thought about this at all.

[kayodelycaon]

Independent contractors would have no leverage because there are too many people who will do the job. Also, companies won't like someone paying per hour when they can push 80+ hour workweeks on salaried employees.

[WeylandYutani]

I think that movies and videogames industry need to get the hell out of America. Wages are too high. Making a triple A game takes a staff of 500 these days.

[bkq]

This is something they do, Marvel rely on outsourcing and using ununionised labour [1], and it shows in the recent films and TV shows they've made. There's a drop in the quality of the VFX. Wages for VFX artists aren't too high, as I've said, they are some of the most underpaid workers in the industry, and their protest against this is always stomped out. For a VFX worker it must be highly frustrating working in an industry where other workers are unionised, but they aren't.

[1] - https://www.cnet.com/culture/entertainment/marvels-vfx-artis...

[hackernewds]

Read the credits at the end of any CGI heavy movie from Disney, or AAA game like GoW and notice how many Indian names show up. It is a highly outsourced biz model, and most of the grunt work is humans doing repetitive tasks over and over for $1 to return $1.01

[sporkl]

I cannot speak for videogames, but I have a family member who was in the movie industry doing CG stuff, and it is already heavily outsourced to other countries than the U.S., particularly Canada, India, and Australia. I’ve been told that the movie industry is essentially dead in the U.S., besides having rights holders/production managers/etc.

[bearmode]

Oh no, paying people what they're worth instead of exploiting those in poorer countries, how terrible

[danbolt]

I never thought I’d write this sort of comment, but, the username checks out!

[3pt14159]

Well that may be true, but they get to work on stuff that is legitimately cool.

I know a guy that worked on StarTrek for years as a VR architect and general 3D modelling type of work. He worked longer hours than your average Torontonian, but nothing absolutely crazy. I've worked longer weeks.

He loved his job.

I'm not saying it is this way for everyone, but part of life is deciding if you want to work hard, have impact on things that matter, work on cool stuff, earn a lot of money, etc.

There are places where it truly gets exploitative, but in my humble opinion that's usually places where the people involved have almost no options other than to move to another town or country. I'm not against industries or companies where the up front expectation is hard work. Some people want that, at least some of the time.

[bkq]

>I'm not saying it is this way for everyone, but part of life is deciding if you want to work hard, have impact on things that matter, work on cool stuff, earn a lot of money, etc.

VFX people in Hollywoord are some of the most underpaid workers in the industry. Sure, it's cool that you can be a part of a team that helps make a movie. No doubt it must be pretty cool to see your work on the big screen, or even the small screen, and know that you played a part in bringing it there. But I think something the workers would also value is having some autonomy over their work, and being paid for it.

I'm not easily convinced by the argument of, "you get to work on cool stuff", working on cool stuff doesn't make up for risking povery, debt, or unemployment when you're underpaid. Furthermore, there's a difference between hard work, and exhausting working. And being put under crunch is exhausting work, not hard work.

[vanderZwan]

> Well that may be true, but they get to work on stuff that is legitimately cool.

So? How does that justify being exploited and treated badly?

I've seen the same arguments made against teachers, nurses and other people who get to do "meaningful" work whenever they want fairer wages, and I do not see the logic. Do they need to be punished for doing a job where the result of their hard work doesn't make them hate themselves?

I see the reverse logic: pay jobs that nobody wants to do well to make them attractive. But the need for carrots does not imply the need for sticks.

[onion2k]

they get to work on stuff that is legitimately cool

Like most things, working on the cutting-edge, successful, top-tier stuff is cool, but most people in the industry aren't doing that. If you look at something like https://steamdb.info/upcoming/ you'll see a small number of "Yeah, it'd be cool to make that" games, and a lot of "Who the hell buys this crap?" games. Most people employed to build games are working on the second type of game.

[Dalewyn]

>part of life is deciding if you want to work hard, have impact on things that matter, work on cool stuff, earn a lot of money, etc.

One man's happiness is another man's hell, and so forth.

The question of happiness is a very subjective one, with everyone having a different answer.

[ocimbote]

It's alright and quite frankly understandable to be motivated to work on a "big project with big cash and big name".

The problem is when the producers use it in an exploitative way to have people work insanely longer hours than billed, or to lower the costs of labour so that the workers can have the "pride" of writing "big name" on their resume.

Unfortunately, this is common practice.

[JohnFen]

> Well that may be true, but they get to work on stuff that is legitimately cool.

In other parts of the software industry, you can also work on legitimately cool stuff without having to kill yourself.