My Sister-In-Law is a counselor at an elementary school in the Chicago area with one other counselor sharing the caseload, she's been working almost a decade.
Before the pandemic, roughly 10% of students at her school came and went through her office seeking mental health treatment. After the pandemic and school reconvened, that number shot up to about 70% of students and has now leveled out around 50% and held steady for the last year. Of course, being a public school district, they couldn't afford to bring on additional caseworkers, so she's having to ration her schedule to see as many students as she can. And the stories she's getting from her kids are often pretty terrible (lots of alcoholism and domestic-violence related issues).
I read stories like this and it's completely unsurprising to see. Between the trauma of the pandemic, endless school shootings and a future that looks increasingly uncertain ecologically and economically, I get it. Who among us honestly wishes they were a kid in this world in this time? I thank my lucky stars every day that I'm not.
I think it’s also become much more acceptable to seek help for mental issues. When I look back at my school days there were a lot of people who had mental problems. Including me. But there was nowhere to go
Do you know if the proportion of reports of alcoholism and domestic violence is holding steady? I'm interested in separating traumatic environments from the normalisation of seeking help for universal stressors like exam season.
(I do not intend to imply that people don't need help for exam stress)
I disagree. When considering a broader timeline, we live in a time of extraordinary wealth, safety, and ease (especially in the west). It just happens that these things don't necessarily make us happy or even mentally healthy. Media channels constantly pump us with negativity-- fear, jealousy, and hatred of the other. I think most people just need a serious attitude adjustment. Life isn't easy no matter how many luxuries you have. Everything is likely doomed when considering the larger timeline. Suck it up and make your world a better place.
That last line makes me so sad. It also boils down to where you live. You can live in countries like china or some arab > asian > european countries and have a better life
I see a lot of posters confidently saying that the solution is obvious and it's [insert their favourite social panacea here]. The level of confidence does not seem related to the amount of evidence presented.
Examples include: more equality; more opportunity; less democracy; reducing gun accidents; less stress; and less teenage parenthood.
Many of these problems have been around for a long time. For example, the US has long been unequal and long been a democracy. Teenage parenthood has actually been falling. The fentanyl epidemic is relatively recent. You cannot explain a change by a constant.
I would support more intellectual humility and attention to the evidence in thinking about this terrible problem.
For the most part it's not intentionally lacing drugs, it's poor quality control and cross contamination.
No one is intentionally mixing fentanyl and MDMA or cocaine but with poor lab work it's easy to get a bit of the wrong whitish powder and the people selling it down stream have no more idea than their buyers what's really in it.
Affluent recreational drug connoisseurs can use basic chemistry and test kits to be highly confident what they're taking but even they get bit sometimes if reckless and using a new source.
Fentanyl costs on the order of $1,000 per kilogram to produce and that’s enough to cut hundreds of thousands of doses of another drug while making them significantly more addictive. It makes other drugs so profitable that the loss in customers is well worth it. There’s a future user born every minute, afterall.
> Notice how Barnett has zero empathy when he thought it was just an Austin thing, then did an about face after the subsequent deaths in Kyle.
I didn't see this in the article. I read that Barnett didn't realize the trend until after a few events - but I didn't see anything indicating a lack of empathy. It's possible to both be emphatic and think an unfortunate event is a one-off caused by external factors, for which a policy change is not necessary.
Illegal drugs are a perfect competition market like grain or white label milk. Not really a big opportunity to differentiate with a brand as you can't register a trademark or defend it in court (lol). A minor price advantage brings vendors a magnified sales volume because it is just so cutthroat. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal
> However I still don’t understand the point of lacing drugs with fentanyl. As a drug dealer you make more money with living clients, right?
I always assumed the dealers knew they had terrible cocaine and would lace it with fentanyl to give it more of an effect. The problem is that such a small amount is lethal so it doesn’t get mixed well enough or they just put too much in.
The only thing that's going to solve this is safe and regulated access to clean drugs. Cut the black market dealers out of the market, and dump all the profits into harm reduction and addiction prevention and treatment resources.
The "tranq" additive that's becoming endemic in streets drugs doesn't respond to narcan either. It's only going to get worse. Wait till carfentanil gets into the supply.
The article places a lot of blame on the state of Texas:
> Directing blame at Mexico is also a way to avoid looking at how Texas fails children.
But also includes anecdotes like:
> When Noah awoke from his coma, he was tearful and apologetic. He thought only a few hours had passed; it had been four days. Janel and her husband called treatment centers, but none would take Noah without his consent, and he insisted that he didn’t have a problem. Even so, Janel was hopeful; that summer was one of the best they’d had as a family. Noah was dating a sweet girl, and when he wasn’t with her he seemed happy enough to hang around the house doing TikTok cooking challenges. Then, the first week of school, sixteen days after Janel gave birth to another son, Noah overdosed at his girlfriend’s house.
It seems to me that if a child overdoses, but refuses to accept their parents demand to seek treatment, they should be denied privileges - forbidden from spending time with unapproved friends, denied a cell phone, denied allowance, etc. This case (and a few others) seem to be clear cut cases where a parent could have forced compliance, but choose not to - I can't imagine any kid choosing no friends and no cell phone to avoid going to one hour per week of narcotics anonymous.
In my experience, you cannot force or punish someone out of problematic substance abuse. If it was that easy, we'd already have the solution. These kids are engaging in this behavior for one reason or another and the solution isn't to make them feel worse about it than they already do.
It's not always easy dealing with teenagers you know. That's why you have to treat them like little adults when they're younger, all the way from when they're toddlers really. Children don't usually focus on the long term, so you have to make them see the long term.
I don’t get how the DEA is able to cause an ADHD medication shortage by limiting supply and yet at the same time pharma companies are allowed to just manufacture as much fentanyl and other opioids as much as they want.
Fentanyl is an opioid, most of which is produce by china which is currently trying to play the opium wars in reverse while most westerners pretend there is no precedent to what is going on.
The stories the cartel guys told in federal prison about what they made people do to get their supply still makes my skin crawl. If you support keeping drugs illegal you support teenagers (that society has decided aren't responsible enough to buy alcohol) being subjected to the worst things cartel guys can up with to be 'entertained'. Period. If you want to keep this garbage illegal you support and are OK with a level of abuse that you can not shake once you hear about it.
I never understood why you'd supply a drug that kills your customer base.
I gist I get is that cheaper-to-produce counterfeit pills laced with Fentanyl are causing accidental overdosing because people think they're taking something else.
And the bogus pills are wildly inconsistent in the dose they deliver.
Before I'd only heard the complete bullshit from Fox News that Fentanyl laced Halloween candy will kill your children if they even touch it.
I would really like to hear from the kids about why this is happening. Any explanation from anyone other than them is just conjecture. We won’t understand this until they start speaking for themselves.
I happen to live in Kyle and also have the experience of attending rehab twice (2016 and 2019). I was never into pills, although I would gladly take them if they were being offered by a friend at a party, or there was a prescription lying around the house. Thankfully I got my shit together and don't engage in that type of destructive behavior anymore. Some of the comments and replies posted in this thread seem quite out of touch with reality though...
I spoke to a few folks I attended rehab / lived in a halfway house with, and those who had been using fentanyl said that nothing compared - subs, heroin, morphine, you name it. The first time I went to rehab, the majority of people there were there for pain pills and heroin. The second time around, almost all the opiate users were using or had at least tried fentanyl.
The problem with subs and methadone, is that it gets into your bones and both substances are addictive in themselves. Trading one addiction for another, even if less harmful, never works out well. Drugs being illegal isn't the problem here - I used to think that if the US followed in the steps of Portugal, the country would be much better off - we're talking school age kids here though. They're not thinking about legal consequences nor are they going to seek out help. They're going to try something out of boredom, some sort of mental state or because their friends are doing it, and with fentanyl many are going to end up dead.
It's easy to understand why kids are becoming increasingly despondent and increasingly turning to drugs for an escape. They don't have a chance to grow up before the weighty issues of the world are thrust upon their shoulders. Between social media, the news cycle, and the education system in our country - they're being done no favors. When they can't handle the load anymore, they often have no one to turn to as their parents are busy working to sustain a family. It's going to require a reckoning (for all of humanity) of what is truly valuable in life - chasing a dollar or being present.
Reading the headlines, seeing the billboards, hearing the stories on the radio while driving is all pretty surreal. I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is, other than making sure one's children know that they are loved and being the best parent one can. I know for me, fear is what caused me to use and that fear manifested itself in many forms - mostly a dissatisfaction with reality. I pretty much had to reshape my entire perspective regarding my existence and reason for being, before I found a way to move past my substance abuse issues. I'm not sure how you help a child realize there's more to life than what can be perceived with our five senses, and that every life is worth infinitely more than a pill or a fun time, but I suppose I get to figure this out with my own son.
I hope that we can all show one another a little more love in this world, and that we can also stop being sold on so much fear.
For so many years, I always wanted to have a kid. But life had its own plans.
Now, I am glad I don't have a kid. This world is ruthless - and I speak with the sword of layoffs hanging on my neck because that's how the system is designed.
The problem to me at least seems obvious; Politicians (and especially a certain side) have been using children as political fodder and a lot of these problems have started coming to roost.
Kids are given less hope for their careers and futures. They have to deal with constant training fearing that one of their classmates could pick up a gun and kill their friends or teachers. Parents (and especially the more toxic kind) encroach more on schools, handcuffing them from providing aid, taking away books, telling them exactly how to behave even when such behavior causes no problems. Schools get less funding for teachers and support staff so when kids have issues or need help they struggle to do so. Then there's the increasing squeeze that lower and middle class parents see where even if they are supportive and love their kids, their daily lives get a little bit worse every day.
It shouldn't be a surprise that they're anxious messes. But fixing it requires recognizing that America is broken.
If you are a drug user, a parent, someone who works with kids, or maybe just want to be a hero someday: you can and should keep a box of Narcan in your house. You can even receive it for free at some pharmacies (just ask), or by filling out this form: https://redcap.uthscsa.edu/REDCap/surveys/?s=8NDKCYKXJW . Also there is a link at the bottom of that page for a site full of resources so you can learn how to administer it, recognize signs of overdose, etc. I know this isn't the solution to the overall problem, but it is one way to make a difference.
Getting this [1] into the hands of all the kids out there seems like a good start. And of course getting the "yeah, just use it if you're even a little worried your friend can't breath anymore; it won't make things worse"
"Don't take drugs" is a good start but reminding kids that they're playing in hardcore mode only goes so far -- even the good ones get unlucky or make bad decisions...
This is one of those cases where I think we should treat the symptom (first) rather than the problem.
Teach them basic pharmacology, dosage calculations, and give access to free test kits to know how strong the stuff they're about take is.
This doesn't solve any societal problems at a grander scale, it doesn't improve the mental health of teenagers, and it won't eliminate overdose deaths entirely...
But it will save the lives of some children who haven't had a chance to really live their life in the first place. It will give them time to look for help they didn't know they needed.
We’ve tried. For 70+ years. Prohibition has caused more problems here than it’s solved…as it’s solved basically no problems.
For a large variety of reasons, the Singapore model doesn’t work here. It doesn’t even work across all of SEA. The Philippines have banned drugs for a long time, but they still have 2-3 million people who regularly use illegal drugs. 4% of Thais have used illegal drugs in the past year, and both countries have very strict laws about drug trafficking.
I'm late to this discussion and don't expect anyone to read my comment. If America is so great why aren't we able to find the labs producing fentanyl and bomb them back to rare earth mineral. No empire in the past would of accepted such an attack and that's what it is. If it was a 50/50 if vodka killed you we would murder and imprison until it wasn't.
[+] [-] LapsangGuzzler|3 years ago|reply
Before the pandemic, roughly 10% of students at her school came and went through her office seeking mental health treatment. After the pandemic and school reconvened, that number shot up to about 70% of students and has now leveled out around 50% and held steady for the last year. Of course, being a public school district, they couldn't afford to bring on additional caseworkers, so she's having to ration her schedule to see as many students as she can. And the stories she's getting from her kids are often pretty terrible (lots of alcoholism and domestic-violence related issues).
I read stories like this and it's completely unsurprising to see. Between the trauma of the pandemic, endless school shootings and a future that looks increasingly uncertain ecologically and economically, I get it. Who among us honestly wishes they were a kid in this world in this time? I thank my lucky stars every day that I'm not.
[+] [-] rqtwteye|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andrei_says_|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] incone123|3 years ago|reply
(I do not intend to imply that people don't need help for exam stress)
[+] [-] seandoe|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshuahedlund|3 years ago|reply
Is there any time in history that would have been better though?
[+] [-] zeeshanmh215|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tlear|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dash2|3 years ago|reply
Examples include: more equality; more opportunity; less democracy; reducing gun accidents; less stress; and less teenage parenthood.
Many of these problems have been around for a long time. For example, the US has long been unequal and long been a democracy. Teenage parenthood has actually been falling. The fentanyl epidemic is relatively recent. You cannot explain a change by a constant.
I would support more intellectual humility and attention to the evidence in thinking about this terrible problem.
[+] [-] ChancyChance|3 years ago|reply
However I still don’t understand the point of lacing drugs with fentanyl. As a drug dealer you make more money with living clients, right?
[+] [-] yetanotherloss|3 years ago|reply
No one is intentionally mixing fentanyl and MDMA or cocaine but with poor lab work it's easy to get a bit of the wrong whitish powder and the people selling it down stream have no more idea than their buyers what's really in it.
Affluent recreational drug connoisseurs can use basic chemistry and test kits to be highly confident what they're taking but even they get bit sometimes if reckless and using a new source.
[+] [-] akiselev|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matthew9219|3 years ago|reply
I didn't see this in the article. I read that Barnett didn't realize the trend until after a few events - but I didn't see anything indicating a lack of empathy. It's possible to both be emphatic and think an unfortunate event is a one-off caused by external factors, for which a policy change is not necessary.
[+] [-] rqtwteye|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cryptonector|3 years ago|reply
> However I still don’t understand the point of lacing drugs with fentanyl. As a drug dealer you make more money with living clients, right?
I don't get that either. Maybe the dealers actually want their clients dead. Or maybe they're incompetent.
[+] [-] LapsangGuzzler|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] popcalc|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] MaxHoppersGhost|3 years ago|reply
I always assumed the dealers knew they had terrible cocaine and would lace it with fentanyl to give it more of an effect. The problem is that such a small amount is lethal so it doesn’t get mixed well enough or they just put too much in.
No idea if that’s why.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] di456|3 years ago|reply
The "tranq" additive that's becoming endemic in streets drugs doesn't respond to narcan either. It's only going to get worse. Wait till carfentanil gets into the supply.
[+] [-] ourmandave|3 years ago|reply
https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-...
[+] [-] matthew9219|3 years ago|reply
> Directing blame at Mexico is also a way to avoid looking at how Texas fails children.
But also includes anecdotes like:
> When Noah awoke from his coma, he was tearful and apologetic. He thought only a few hours had passed; it had been four days. Janel and her husband called treatment centers, but none would take Noah without his consent, and he insisted that he didn’t have a problem. Even so, Janel was hopeful; that summer was one of the best they’d had as a family. Noah was dating a sweet girl, and when he wasn’t with her he seemed happy enough to hang around the house doing TikTok cooking challenges. Then, the first week of school, sixteen days after Janel gave birth to another son, Noah overdosed at his girlfriend’s house.
It seems to me that if a child overdoses, but refuses to accept their parents demand to seek treatment, they should be denied privileges - forbidden from spending time with unapproved friends, denied a cell phone, denied allowance, etc. This case (and a few others) seem to be clear cut cases where a parent could have forced compliance, but choose not to - I can't imagine any kid choosing no friends and no cell phone to avoid going to one hour per week of narcotics anonymous.
[+] [-] runnerup|3 years ago|reply
A large part of the problem was not having my own social group from being grounded for a full year when I wasn’t getting all my homework done.
[+] [-] throwmeouthn|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dopamean|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cryptonector|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] germinalphrase|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ct0|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Pulcinella|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] loeg|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blacksmith_tb|3 years ago|reply
1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64047688
[+] [-] Clubber|3 years ago|reply
https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fe...
[+] [-] anon291|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] treeman79|3 years ago|reply
Only took me 2 years to get a prescription for a common but off label use for one medication.
[+] [-] ROTMetro|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] di456|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ourmandave|3 years ago|reply
I gist I get is that cheaper-to-produce counterfeit pills laced with Fentanyl are causing accidental overdosing because people think they're taking something else.
And the bogus pills are wildly inconsistent in the dose they deliver.
Before I'd only heard the complete bullshit from Fox News that Fentanyl laced Halloween candy will kill your children if they even touch it.
[+] [-] mbgerring|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoreenMichele|3 years ago|reply
It can take time to get the full picture, even for people directly involved.
[+] [-] throwmeouthn|3 years ago|reply
I spoke to a few folks I attended rehab / lived in a halfway house with, and those who had been using fentanyl said that nothing compared - subs, heroin, morphine, you name it. The first time I went to rehab, the majority of people there were there for pain pills and heroin. The second time around, almost all the opiate users were using or had at least tried fentanyl.
The problem with subs and methadone, is that it gets into your bones and both substances are addictive in themselves. Trading one addiction for another, even if less harmful, never works out well. Drugs being illegal isn't the problem here - I used to think that if the US followed in the steps of Portugal, the country would be much better off - we're talking school age kids here though. They're not thinking about legal consequences nor are they going to seek out help. They're going to try something out of boredom, some sort of mental state or because their friends are doing it, and with fentanyl many are going to end up dead.
It's easy to understand why kids are becoming increasingly despondent and increasingly turning to drugs for an escape. They don't have a chance to grow up before the weighty issues of the world are thrust upon their shoulders. Between social media, the news cycle, and the education system in our country - they're being done no favors. When they can't handle the load anymore, they often have no one to turn to as their parents are busy working to sustain a family. It's going to require a reckoning (for all of humanity) of what is truly valuable in life - chasing a dollar or being present.
Reading the headlines, seeing the billboards, hearing the stories on the radio while driving is all pretty surreal. I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is, other than making sure one's children know that they are loved and being the best parent one can. I know for me, fear is what caused me to use and that fear manifested itself in many forms - mostly a dissatisfaction with reality. I pretty much had to reshape my entire perspective regarding my existence and reason for being, before I found a way to move past my substance abuse issues. I'm not sure how you help a child realize there's more to life than what can be perceived with our five senses, and that every life is worth infinitely more than a pill or a fun time, but I suppose I get to figure this out with my own son.
I hope that we can all show one another a little more love in this world, and that we can also stop being sold on so much fear.
[+] [-] nine_zeros|3 years ago|reply
Now, I am glad I don't have a kid. This world is ruthless - and I speak with the sword of layoffs hanging on my neck because that's how the system is designed.
[+] [-] fzeroracer|3 years ago|reply
Kids are given less hope for their careers and futures. They have to deal with constant training fearing that one of their classmates could pick up a gun and kill their friends or teachers. Parents (and especially the more toxic kind) encroach more on schools, handcuffing them from providing aid, taking away books, telling them exactly how to behave even when such behavior causes no problems. Schools get less funding for teachers and support staff so when kids have issues or need help they struggle to do so. Then there's the increasing squeeze that lower and middle class parents see where even if they are supportive and love their kids, their daily lives get a little bit worse every day.
It shouldn't be a surprise that they're anxious messes. But fixing it requires recognizing that America is broken.
[+] [-] kayge|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cduzz|3 years ago|reply
"Don't take drugs" is a good start but reminding kids that they're playing in hardcore mode only goes so far -- even the good ones get unlucky or make bad decisions...
[1] https://thehill.com/newsletters/health-care/3924952-fda-appr...
[+] [-] natpalmer1776|3 years ago|reply
Teach them basic pharmacology, dosage calculations, and give access to free test kits to know how strong the stuff they're about take is.
This doesn't solve any societal problems at a grander scale, it doesn't improve the mental health of teenagers, and it won't eliminate overdose deaths entirely...
But it will save the lives of some children who haven't had a chance to really live their life in the first place. It will give them time to look for help they didn't know they needed.
[+] [-] jamal-kumar|3 years ago|reply
how are you going to get children to measure micrograms
[+] [-] doomleika|3 years ago|reply
Yes, illegal drug abuse is still an issue here, but it's nowhere close to major contributor of death and crime.
[+] [-] runnerup|3 years ago|reply
For a large variety of reasons, the Singapore model doesn’t work here. It doesn’t even work across all of SEA. The Philippines have banned drugs for a long time, but they still have 2-3 million people who regularly use illegal drugs. 4% of Thais have used illegal drugs in the past year, and both countries have very strict laws about drug trafficking.
[+] [-] itsagavin|3 years ago|reply