Well, that doesn't really matter, does it? Vehicles provide transportation from A to B for occupants and cargo. If a small vehicle suffices, then larger ones shouldn't be necessary. Of course, this is also a challenge for planning infrastructure in a way that large vehicles are not necessary in population centers (which should, by definition, be built for people, not large cars).
I’ve been in China recently, one of the most popular forms of transport is the electric scooter. They outnumber cars around me. Many people just don’t bother with cars.
The list of top cars by model is quite interesting. Some of the Chinese cars are golf carts but most would decently sized and attractive by US standards.
So.. its switching from petrol to coal?
Unless they really ramp up nuclear and solar. Which they did not so far..
And dont forget, the first 100.000 kilometers of energy are already spent driving of the lot, building a new car. So fading away old cars as slow as possible is the most energy efficient strategy?
> And dont forget, the first 100.000 kilometers of energy are already spent driving of the lot, building a new car. So fading away old cars as slow as possible is the most energy efficient strategy?
No it is not a good strategy. It is better to replace oldest cars first, because they are usually least efficient, but even if you replace new ICE car, that car does not disappear - it will probably be sold and replace old, less efficient ICE car.
Coal is awful, but also keep in mind that it’s shipped to centralized locations to be burned.
Gas for cars is shipped to a distribution center, loaded onto trucks that are immensely heavy and require loads of fuel to haul, shipped to a local distribution center, loaded onto trucks, driven somewhere else, pumped into a station, then those trucks drive back, and people often drive out of their way for gas instead of just charging at their destination. (Nobody has a gas station at their house and few desirable stores include gas stations)
It’s entirely possible that this process ends up using more energy than just burning coal.
That would still be a win for cities there.
But it looks like coal and non-renewables' share of electricity there is now declining too, from roughly 4/5 to 2/3 in the last decade* (a lot of that is due to wind energy, which is rapidly ramping up there.
> The first 100.000 kilometers of energy are already spent driving of the lot, building a new car
China is the leader of electric 2-seater cars (Wuling Mini, Geely Panda Mini).
Comparison between a Wuling Mini and a Tesla Model 3:
- battery weight: ~100 kg vs. 500+ kg
- total weight: ~600 kg vs. 1,600+ kg
- retail price: ~5,000 EUR vs. ~50,000 EUR
I doubt it takes as much energy to break even on a Wuling Mini than it does on a Model 3.
A better question would be - why should Europeans be excluded from affordable electric Chinese cars because of the political chess between the US and China?
Assuming they never move away from fossil fuels, it's still a win. Electricity is far more efficient at converting energy into movement than fossil fuels (roughly 75% vs 15%)
wil421|2 years ago
shakow|2 years ago
Using a 2.5tons F150 guzzling 12l/100km to buy grocery or commute should not be seen as the ultimate goal.
Just for fun: most sold car in the US (F150) vs. most sold car in France (208) https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/peugeot-208-2019-5-...
pjc50|2 years ago
bdcravens|2 years ago
Your average SUV in the US is what much of the world would consider a cargo truck.
ygra|2 years ago
CJefferson|2 years ago
throwaway4good|2 years ago
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/02/01/plugin-electric-vehicle...
bryanlarsen|2 years ago
SyzygistSix|2 years ago
qikInNdOutReply|2 years ago
So.. its switching from petrol to coal? Unless they really ramp up nuclear and solar. Which they did not so far..
And dont forget, the first 100.000 kilometers of energy are already spent driving of the lot, building a new car. So fading away old cars as slow as possible is the most energy efficient strategy?
Sankozi|2 years ago
> So.. its switching from petrol to coal?
Switching from burning fossil fuels in tiny inefficient engine to burning them in modern power plant is already a very positive change.
> Unless they really ramp up nuclear and solar. Which they did not so far..
Really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_China
> And dont forget, the first 100.000 kilometers of energy are already spent driving of the lot, building a new car. So fading away old cars as slow as possible is the most energy efficient strategy?
No it is not a good strategy. It is better to replace oldest cars first, because they are usually least efficient, but even if you replace new ICE car, that car does not disappear - it will probably be sold and replace old, less efficient ICE car.
pigsty|2 years ago
Gas for cars is shipped to a distribution center, loaded onto trucks that are immensely heavy and require loads of fuel to haul, shipped to a local distribution center, loaded onto trucks, driven somewhere else, pumped into a station, then those trucks drive back, and people often drive out of their way for gas instead of just charging at their destination. (Nobody has a gas station at their house and few desirable stores include gas stations)
It’s entirely possible that this process ends up using more energy than just burning coal.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electr...
andylynch|2 years ago
* https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-coal?ta...
henry_viii|2 years ago
China is ramping up nuclear:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-11-02/china-cli...
> The first 100.000 kilometers of energy are already spent driving of the lot, building a new car
China is the leader of electric 2-seater cars (Wuling Mini, Geely Panda Mini).
Comparison between a Wuling Mini and a Tesla Model 3:
- battery weight: ~100 kg vs. 500+ kg
- total weight: ~600 kg vs. 1,600+ kg
- retail price: ~5,000 EUR vs. ~50,000 EUR
I doubt it takes as much energy to break even on a Wuling Mini than it does on a Model 3.
A better question would be - why should Europeans be excluded from affordable electric Chinese cars because of the political chess between the US and China?
bdcravens|2 years ago
Also, solar is absolutely growing in China, growing by roughly 30% in 2023: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-solar-power-capaci...