[bogrollben]

I'm at the point where I feel fed up with too much talk about self-improvement. It's ok to not be productive and just enjoy things. Enjoy relationships, the sunshine, even video games or something that is literally a waste of time.

Maybe I got burned out by goal-setting and productivity talk. It also might be some remnants of some mild depression I had lately. I guess I just don't like feeling pressured to constantly improve, otherwise I'm not "living 100%" like I should be.

So when I read things like this, it grates my nerves: >> "In this process though you will become a better human being. You will get better at living. You will have less pain down the road. Your path will be smoother."

It suggests the inverse: that if you're not improving, you're less of a human being. I'm not sure if the author meant it that way, but that's definitely the way I took it.

[switchbak]

Contentment is a real thing, and valuable. There's a balance between trying to improve and being ok with how you are in your life right now. I think North American society takes things a bit too far down the side of self improvement.

If you take my 12 step course, you too can learn how to level up your Contentment Quotient. If you act now we'll also throw in a free weight loss program!

[scarecrowbob]

That's a relatable feeling.

My understanding is that the larger culture context, in which our worth is determined by our value as a worker, would be the locus of that feeling. Like, I really don't feel like a "better" person because I learned how to use the CLI more efficiently.

I may even find the term "better" in that context to be offensive: I'm not better because I learned how to deal with the shambling tower of shit that is WordPress at the institutional level. I enjoy the money and the security of a job, but I hate that my security is premised on my willingness to put up with that shitty system.

Ironically, the way that I've dealt with my own feelings about this has been to lean into dumb crap that obviously has no value in a larger context.

Learning chess or getting better at math are a couple of examples of things that it just felt fun and freeing to be better at, simply because I like them. Lately it's been card manipulations.

I've leaned into playing a lot of musical instruments, and I am fortunate to work from home as I play literally all day.

And that's been somewhat freeing because as much as I enjoy the feeling of improving some of my skills, that enjoyment has been often leveraged against me to get me to do jobs I hate. Like, I've spent a lot of time fixing dumb stuff just because I have learned how to enjoy the process, but since it's dumb stuff it's a bit soul crushing to do it unless I just want to do it.

In that context, I feel like I can draw a line between the stuff that really is fun and useful to me and the stuff I'm able to grind on because that's what I was trained to do.

That distinction has made my practice on a lot of things (from music to working on getting better at relating to people) feel more liberating and less like shitty hustle culture.

[eropple]

I feel like there's a difference of kind between the hyper-competitive "you must be better at this to Be Productive" and what's being espoused here.

I've always been a tinkerer and all that. Rarely with any goal in mind, either; like the author of this blog post, it's always been practice for the sake of it. As I've gotten older, though, the benefits of that tinkering have been accruing over time. It lends itself to a more thorough understanding of the world, which helps in little concrete ways--if you asked me how much I know about mechanical systems I'd say "nothing" but in truth I can get by pretty well from servicing small woodworking tools and from designing stuff for a 3D printer--to the large--having a deeper understanding of why the world is the way it is through history and philosophy and political science.

I do a lot of this practice. I would also say that I'm pretty happy and, in most ways, content with where my life is. Doing more, at that point, is internal practice, not external competition. It's mind-and-soul exercise. And practicing saying no, practicing relaxation, counts too. Just, like with everything else--don't do that too much.

[slothtrop]

> self-improvement > productive

Self-improvement might be a 'productive' use of time in the capacity that it is viewed as a positive, but it's not defined exactly by productivity qua work. "Enjoying relationships" and sunshine is self-improvement for those who don't; you literally just said something prescriptive, which requires action, which makes it productive.

Take therapy for instance, like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The whole point is to help you stop agonizing and indulging distorted thinking, to let go of things so you can better enjoy your life. That's self-improvement.

The problem with the rhetoric I see here is it's used as a deflection against change, when something's wrong. A bait-and-switch tactic. "Why worry about grinding away at juggling therapy and eating real food and doing the bare minimum exercise to stay healthy? Let's not stress ourselves. Drinking myself stupid 'sparks joy', I'll just not think about it, life is short [insert aphorism]".

I think there's an important difference between slowing down to enjoy life and making rationalizations against fixing problems.

[ryangs]

I think the important thing is to find a balance that satisfies you. If you never do any self improvement, you might be missing out on a much better life that would cost you relatively little to get to. But maybe your current life is hunky-dory, in which case, that's great, you do you!

And over-focus on "self-improvement" may mean you miss out on things along the way. Making yourself miss those things may be more of a decline than improvement for you.

[JohnFen]

I agree.

I'd only add that, in my opinion, self-improvement should be a joy in itself, not a burden or drudgery. If it's not joyful, what's the point?

Even if it's just to further your career goals (which it shouldn't be just that), the lack of joy in doing it might be a strong hint that your career goals are not well-aligned with your personality.

[SteveDR]

> In this process though you will become a better human being. You will get better at living. You will have less pain down the road. Your path will be smoother.

I mean it’s hard to argue that you should do things that get in the way of this pursuit.

I agree with your sentiment, but I think your definition of self-improvement is off if it doesn’t include leisure, because finding healthy ways of incorporating leisure into your life definitely makes your “path” “smoother”.

Like, my ideal self isn’t a 100x engineer that sleeps at the office most nights. My ideal self spends time with his family, and cares for friends even if they don’t offer me anything tangible, and has hobbies that won’t result in measurable benefits to my “productivity”. So doing those things is self-improvement because I’m moving towards my own definition of success.

[dbtc]

> It's ok to not be productive and just enjoy things. Enjoy relationships, the sunshine, even video games or something that is literally a waste of time.

That's not so easy for some folks, at least at first. Not until they... practice ;)

[DotaFan]

Web became place of distraction. Everyone wants your attention. Personally, as soon as video starts with "Hear me out.." I turn it off.

[JohnFen]

> It's ok to not be productive and just enjoy things.

It's not only OK, it's absolutely essential.

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being

I don't think that's the message that you should take. Your value as a human being is independent of all that. However, I think there's an element of truth to "if you're not growing, you're dying."

[groby_b]

Well, if you're growing, you're still dying. You're a human, not a cancer cell.

[RHSman2]

There are plenty examples of people who took that attitude and aren’t/weren’t good humans.

You are good enough as you are. Sure, there is a better version of yourself and everyday is an opportunity to be a little better BUT your value as a human has NOTHING to do with any of this shit.

Time for rest and recovery is good.

[llamataboot]

You can also practice being content and happy not improving, I think that's still a "practice" in the sense of this essay

[waynesonfire]

> that if you're not improving, you're less of a human being.

If you're not improving, then you're not improving. What more is there to that? If you had improved, maybe you'd be a better human, or not. Maybe you've transcended the idea and by not improving you grow to be a better human. Regardless of the scenario, it's your ego that is the judge.

[prottog]

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being

I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thing, and we will never know what action or inaction you took was the "best" or "right" one.

The better way to approach it, in my view, is to accept the fact that if you're not improving and being productive, in some ways you are indeed a worse version of you than you could be; but in the Stoic tradition, to divorce that fact from how you feel about it emotionally -- as you said, it's OK. Perhaps you can trend towards being better without self-flagellating when you're not.

[lacy_tinpot]

Productivity making you better or worse makes a needless moral judgement. What's better is that being productive allows you to accomplish the things you want.

Then the real question becomes about your goals, rather than some vague ideas of "work". I think it's better to really consider what you want and don't want, and genuinely accept them. The productivity scale is not some inherent moral metric. This shrouds the intent of productivity, which is to accomplish goals.

So you're not worse if you're not being productive, but you are worse if you aren't accomplish whatever goals you have for yourself. Not because it's some moral failure but simply accomplishing goals feels good and not accomplishing them feels bad. Further the goals themselves aren't universal. They're merely reflections of your innate desires, which you have to accept. If you feel like you weren't "productive", it's probably closer to say that you feel bad for not achieving what you set out to do.

The simple problem here I think is goal setting. Not solely productivity itself.

[xboxnolifes]

> The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done.

How so? I see many people assert this, but I've yet to see someone be able to articulate why (that isn't trivially refutable).

Are we measuring by happiness? Contentment? External validation? Popularity? Legacy? Fitness? Total number of experiences? Something else? And, for any chosen metric, why is that metric important?

[bheadmaster]

There is no objective "good", only "good for whom". Even widely accepted qualities like money, character, physical health - they are good to the person that has them, but only if they themselves desire such things.

If a person desires peace and quiet and a vacation, then getting up at 6am to go to gym and spending time grinding leetcode is not good for them, it's a burden.

[ilc]

Not true at all.

You forget the importance of rest itself in self improvement.

Understanding how to improve, is a lifelong journey. Understanding how much to work, how much to rest, how much to sharpen the sword, how much you can mix those things... and how all this interplays with your personal factors is essential to get the most from yourself.

Sometimes... Watching TV and not seeing your friends, or whatever is the RIGHT thing to do. And we should have 0 shame about it when it is. I'll admit video games are my vice over TV in general. But there's times when I've gone too hard... and even gaming may be too taxing for what I can take.

[RHSman2]

The 25-30 yr old version of myself who was super driven, deadly fit, focused and high achieving in chosen hobby was not a better version of me. It was a version that was a lot more free, less responsibility, way more selfish, self centered and egotistical.

The internal judge is à dangerous beast.

[davidthewatson]

No, this is just as bad as:

"who the world wants you to be" from the OP.

This is toxic positivity.

There's a place for feedback loops whether you label it tldr; GPT, sensemaking, or dislike.