Just speculation, but I have the impression that alcohol "problems" are a larger problem in countries where the age required to legally buy alcohol is rather high.
In my home country (Austria) I could buy alcohol at age 13 without any problems. No one would ask for an ID. I think nowadays they are a little bit stricter, but you are still legally allowed to buy alcohol once you turn 16. Once you turn a little bit older alcohol isn't that interesting any more. Of course, you'd still buy a beer (or more) if you're partying with friends, but getting totally wasted is something teenagers would do.
I've moved to the US some time ago, and here I have the impression that even people in their late-twenties get regularly drunk just "because they can" and are "allowed to do so". Seems they just never learned how to use alcohol responsibly while they were young, and at some age it's too late to learn it.
My thoughts exactly. Having traveled a bit, I've noticed that the stiffer the alcohol regulations, the more irresponsible people tend to be with their drinking when they come of age. The result of a whole lot of new found liberties all at once, with no real grasp of what the small prints attached really entail. I remember in my early 20s, when some of my American friends' idea of having fun was let's go out get wasted and I was puzzled by this notion.
In my opinion, being responsible with alcohol requires experience, which we all know is acquired through trials and error. I share the controversial belief that parents should be the ones to responsibly shepherd their kids' drinking habits. They shouldn't just wait for them to turn 21 and discover it in the "wild", or worse, let them go in those popular drinking safaris in Canada or Mexico, where the legal age is lower and regulations somewhat more loosely applied.
There are other reasons why "binge drinking" appears to be higher in anglo countries (US, Britain, Canada, etc...). Especially among the upper middle class. Longer work weeks than the rest of the industrialized world, less vacation days, etc... Drinking age may play a role in our propensity towards binge drinking, but I think it also has a lot to do with our "work hard, play hard" mentality.
I agree that the easy availability of alcohol to teenagers in most European countries seems to achieve the effect that you describe.
There is another angle to this though - is it better to engage in binge drinking right in the middle of adolescence, when the body and mind is at a rapid pace of development, or in your twenties, when you are physically better equipped to deal with the effects of excessive alcohol consumption?
I am not a medical professional, but instinctively, the second option seems to me to be the safer one.
To me it's the people in the US who are the responsible ones. I moved here a while ago from Australia. Being blind drunk in Australia is for the most part acceptable at every level of society. Here in the USA, I'm sure it's acceptable somewhere but my experience so far is that it's viewed more like you're a fool who just never learned how to pace yourself.
I'm not sure. I think it depends whether the not drinking till some ages is self-imposed, or externaly imposed, and how much external that prohibition is.
For example I weren't drinking till 18, because I was very religious in primary/secondary school, and priests encouraged promising to yourselves to never drink till 18. Most people didn't care, I did (religion is nice mind-hack, btw, it's a shame it stops working when you don't believe it anymore).
So I had to learn to party without alcohol, and I did. Some people were unfriendly because of that, but I figured they were obviously dumb, if me not drinking spoils their fun, so I won't care about them.
Then I got 18, go to university, and drink alcohol like everybody, but never feel the need to drink too much. As for now I'm 28, and I've never had hangover, or lost memory. And I was partying hard at university.
In my country you can buy alcohol from 18, but enforcement is not very strict, so kids start drinking in primary school, because it's cool, because you're gambling system. Of course most people grow up eventually. Binge drinking is a part of culture (well, wódka is Polish/Russian invention :) ), but young people prefer beer, and you have to really want to got drunk, when drinking beer, to got drunk.
I think it more depends on the attitude and example of parents (mine had drink on occasions, but I've never seen my parents drunk. They also never made the alcohol sound like it's some great forbidden fruit they had to protect me from).
So, I completely agree with you regarding the observable counterproductive nature of over-restrictive substance laws, but I'm curious why you put "problems" in quotes. I ask because I've seen a tendency in some cultures to feel that alcohol addiction doesn't exist, or that it's an issue that is severely overstated elsewhere.
Same observation in China: all the heavier drinkers seem to be foreigners (me included).
Now we have to question the cause/effect relationship. Do we have higher age limits because we have alcohol problems or do we have alcohol problems because the age limit is high?
I do not think it is about regulation, in Slovakia where I am from or Czech where I study it is really easy to buy alcohol in younger age, but people tend to get shitfaced all the time, regardless whether they are 16 or 26... It depends largely on culture.
You're not alone. I personally experienced in many of the different places I lived in as a teenager, from places where you almost never get carded at all, to places where the threshold is 15/16.
Why the false dichotomy? The author seems to imply that the alternatives are 1) never touching a drop of alcohol, or 2) getting blind drunk, being incapable of controlling your actions, and blacking out. There are some good points in there about how you shouldn't "need" alcohol, and arguments against getting totally wasted, but he seems to be completely ignoring a huge, huge middle ground.
For a lot of people, it's not a false dichotomy; there is no middle ground. And I'm not necessarily talking about alcoholism either (though that qualifies); the insidious thing about alcohol is that it clouds your judgement and makes abuse more likely. So you've had a few drinks and you're having fun, hanging out with friends, feeling pretty good. And then everyone is ordering another round, which is almost certainly a bad idea from a logical perspective. But you're not thinking logically anymore, so you do too.
Think about it like this: how many people who drink have been drunk to the point of throwing up (and subsequently hungover) more than once or twice? Most people who drink would answer yes. And that makes zero sense; what logical person would choose to experience that misery more than once? And yet many do it almost every weekend. Because alcohol screws up your brain.
Once a week there is a post on HN where I fail to understand how it got so up-voted. This is that post. If not for the moderate condescension and proselytism, I wouldn't think much of it; instead, I've become inspired to comment.
OP probably does feel more "fun" in a given month than most of us. But the article comes across as though the reader has never experienced such a life.
A lot of us have - in our teenage years. The life of skinny dipping, cross-dressing, and acting like an idiot, all without the aid of alcohol, aptly describes my own. Sure, those times were fun, perhaps among the most fun of my life. But a lot of that fun came from both their novelty and ignorance of the perhaps more enjoyable adult fun (alcohol, sex). Unfortunately, as life went on, those activities grew mundane. (Besides, one seeks higher levels of happiness as he ages, for instance the self-actualization that comes with building a successful business). In a sense, I envy the author's enjoying such activities at 30 as much as a teen would. Why he thinks he is able to would make a great follow-up blog post. Most of society after all shifts to the "adult fun".
On another note, the extremism of the post bothers me. The author equates drinking alcohol with getting drunk. Which of course excessive consumption causes. But I can certainly remember everything if I consume just a few shots, but those said shots certainly make the world around me seem much more entertaining.
First, I agree with people pointing out that alcohol doesn't have to be for getting drunk. At the moment I have three near-empty boxes of beer (bottles), six part-drunk bottles of whisky, and a few empty wine bottles. None of that alcohol has been consumed by myself or anyone else to the point of being even buzzed, yet alone drunk.
However, I do enjoy getting drunk. I've never drunk so much I threw up, or fell over, or hit anyone, or... etc. But yes, when I'm out with friends or colleagues we will happily enjoy a night with much alcohol flowing - enough to be classed by the UK government as "booze drinking", at least.
I sometimes do or say something I feel embarassed about afterwards (most recent example was a conversation about poetry with a London taxi driver at ~5am), but nothing I've been ashamed of.
Sure, I can have fun without alcohol. Sometimes I do - certainly I've never had the thought that being drunk is a requirement for having fun. It just provides a different type of fun. Different things make you laugh, you have different conversations...
Obviously these things vary for different people, I've known people who I don't want to be around when they're drunk - but also plenty of people just like me.
edit: Just read the first paragraph of this comment and thought "I wrote that myself and even I think that sounds like an alcoholic in denial". When I'm out and drinking I'll drink a lot, when I'm at home I'll have a glass or two over an evening. If I tried to get drunk off the whisky I have at home it would be a really expensive night.
It sounds like you have a really high tolerance for alcohol. I've had a few friends like that, they could drink a whole case of beer. I myself drink 3 beers and I'm pretty well buzzed. Never could drink that kind if quantity. I do enjoy a great beer, though.
A few of my buds with the high tolerance seemed to get themselves into trouble eventually with booze, though. DUIs in particular, lots of legals bills. One turned raging alcoholic and is still in a shambles.
Not trying to say that will happen to you, I just notice of my friend for whom booze did become a problem - they share that trait of being able to drink a lot without seeking to ever get drunk.
I really didn't intend to say drinking or not drinking was right/wrong for everybody... just trying to tell my story and what I've found worked well for me.
I would love to know what the beer/whisky/wine brought to your time with your friends, it it wasn't for getting drunk/buzzed? Honestly curious.
While I'm glad that someone found that total sobriety is the best for them, I found parts of this to be a bit distasteful. The times in my life when I overdid it a bit (or a lot) with the drinking, the next day I found myself thinking "wow, I acted like such an idiot last night", not "I could have acted like the same idiot without alcohol".
If I'm at a bachelor party making gay jokes ("no homo"), the amount of alcohol I've consumed is somewhat irrelevant.
What parts did you find distasteful? I was conscious when writing this to keep an air of mtv beachhouse / jersey shore tone in it... That's the kind of partying that has been glamorized and what a lot of people seek out on the weekend.
I definitely don't suggest people act like idiots. I was simply trying to relate to the people that are probably overdoing it the most.
I'm really surprised at the level of hostility in these comments. I read this not as a preachy, "do this or waste your life" type post, but as a reflection of one man's experience and the very positive outcome that this lifestyle change had.
Maybe it's not relevant for some people - if you're not the kind of person who parties and gets drunk regularly (where regularity is obviously subjective) then clearly his experience may well be irrelevant. On the other hand, if you are, maybe you can try it - maybe it won't work for you and maybe it will.
A couple of years ago, I spent Thanksgiving with a friend and the first thing he warned was, "My family does not drink alcohol!". Interesting... I am accustomed to intoxicated family parties, but on that specific Thanksgiving, 20 of us drank tea and ate turkey. It was pleasant.
After dinner, his father (a Doctor, along with 80% of the family) shared his views about alcohol, predicting that in one generation alcohol will be socially rejected the way tobacco is today because of how utterly destructive alcohol is to the human body.
Remember! Just 50 years ago, the majority of the United States had no problem with cigarettes.
I still drink, along with almost every adult I know, though I cannot help but think that my friend's dad is right.
>After dinner, his father (a Doctor, along with 80% of the family) shared his views about alcohol, predicting that in one generation alcohol will be socially rejected the way tobacco is today because of how utterly destructive alcohol is to the human body.
I think this has a likelihood approaching nil.
The consumption of alcohol is literally as old as human civilization; humans first stumbled upon fermenting grains into ale around the time humans first began farming.
There would have to be some sort of ground breaking discovery to attach the same sort of health stigma to alcohol as tobacco. Right now, the research is extremely mixed. The continual debate over possible health benefits of wine would be one indicator. The fact that data indicates that complete abstainers generally live shorter lives than those who drink would be another.[1]
>Remember! Just 50 years ago, the majority of the United States had no problem with cigarettes.
Remember! Less than 100 years ago, the anti-alcohol movement in the United States was strong enough to put Prohibition into place.
And what's interesting about that is that it illuminates another key place where I think the idea that alcohol will suddenly become socially unacceptable is completely off the mark. We've consumed alcohol for thousands of years, and we've been fairly aware of its destructive effects for nearly as long because alcohol is more immediately destructive than tobacco.
One of the biggest drivers of the temperance movement in the late 19th and early 20th century were women. In the time predating modern social safety nets and women's liberation movements, a woman with a drunk for a husband would end up with mouths to feed and very few options for making an income.
Yet prohibition was a disaster on a grand scale because society at large rejected it. It would take a major sea change for things to be any different today or in 50 years.
There are plenty of studies that show alcohol is good for people in moderation, unlike smoking. Your friends father's views on alcohol will not happen. Prohibition was a massive failure in the U.S.
Even heavy drinkers outlive those who abstain. Let that sink in.
The big issue with drinking isn't what happens to one's body, but rather what drinking causes some to do -- drunk driving, rape, assaults, etc. The biggest scourge from drinking is that it causes some people to do terrible things. And while heavy drinking can cause issues with one's body, that pales in comparison to what a drunk can do to others.
Big, big difference. If someone gets drunk at the same table as me they aren't doing me any harm, as long as they don't attack me, or drive me anywhere - that's a long way from sitting next to someone puffing away on a cigarette...
Light alcohol consumption has been shown to have a beneficial effect on health. I'm not sure where this doctor is getting his information from, but in terms of stress relief, a couple alcoholic beverages a week does not appear to be utterly distructive to the human body.
>predicting that in one generation alcohol will be socially rejected the way tobacco is today because of how utterly destructive alcohol is to the human body.
He's not the only doctor to think that way. "Alcohol is the most dangerous drug in the UK by a considerable margin, beating heroin and crack cocaine into second and third place, according to an authoritative study published today which will reopen calls for the drugs classification system to be scrapped and a concerted campaign launched against drink." http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/nov/01/alcohol-more-h...
yeah, because 500 years ago we were also smoking and only figured now that it was really terrible.
on the other hand, 500 years ago we were also drinking and we've still no clue how alcohol is!
oh uhm, actually it appears we do with great details. Damn.
I did this for four months. (Started drinking again around new years because it seemed highly appropriate)
I definitely got the "Wow, you've been sober for 4 months?!? But we partied so hard last friday!" thing a lot. When people are drunk, they really don't notice you not being drunk..
I agree with most of the article, and will probably go back on the wagon again soon. But he left out some of the negative stuff...
For example.. How grating it gets when your friends get so drunk that they start to repeat themselves... Over and over again.. And how hard it can be to get a point across to someone who's drunk when you're sober. Making conversations, at times, highly frustrating.
When I'm drunk I'm just as stupid and the conversations run smoothly!
Good for him but not sure why he feels the need to push his zero-alcohol policy on others. I'd guess more people drink for other reasons than to "get drunk" but I guess this was his only reason.
I'm not sure I follow the author's reasoning. It's also possible to have a great time without consuming meat, without having sex or even without including friends in the activity. So what?
Most people who stop drinking do it for either health reasons (allergic, acid reflux, etc.) or because they are an alcoholic. He doesn't fully explain why he stopped drinking, and I'm wonder if it is because he had issues with drinking.
I do want to add before I write more that if you don't enjoy drinking, don't do it. Just because other people are doing it that doesn't mean you should. I know some people who don't actually enjoy alcohol, but they still feel like it's the thing to do socially. If you enjoy not drinking, rock it.
If you're out of your early 20s and you're still getting drunk regularly, you probably have an alcohol problem. I'm 27 and haven't been drunk in years. I drink a few times a week and usually only have a drink or two. I might have three-ish tomorrow because of the big game.
It's fine if you don't want to drink, but there is something missing from his story. Maybe he needed to stop drinking, but many of us can responsibly handle and enjoy alcohol.
I love beer. I love trying different kinds of beer. I love the taste, and I want to discover new kinds.
If you're drinking alcohol just to get drunk that's the issue. Many of us drink beer, wine or mixed drinks because we actually enjoy the drink.
I know I have a few tasty microbrews lined up for tomorrow.
Like with most things it's easy to slide down a slippery slope. One glass of wine turns into two and then you've polished off the rest of the bottle. A glass of wine is something I may add back in like 20-30 years, but honestly I don't miss it that much. You're either alone and should just find a way to be in that happy, light place without the wine... or it's a social thing and you can find another delicious drink to socialize with. (hot cocoa, coconut-lime soda, etc.)
And the buddhist in my fully appreciates a moderation / middle way approach... But what is that glass of wine getting you? Is it strictly a taste thing? Is it the antioxidants? My guess is there are comparable things that would be you those same positive results of a glass of wine.
I get the point of the post. But come on, we're adults. Drinking is a choice. For some people, if having a drink makes them more social and they enjoy it, more power to them. If people choose to be sober and it works for them in their social life, hey, good for them too.
Yes alcohol can be abused. But just because you choose to get shitfaced doesn't mean you don't know how to have fun the "real" way. It also doesn't mean you're an alcoholic. And just because you don't drink, doesn't mean you're the outcast.
Your post would have been a lot more meaningful if you neglected the part about the alcohol altogether. I think what's inspiring is that you chose to go down a different path and it led to amazing things in your life. Drinking is irrelevant and takes away from the good message you try to convey.
I quit drinking Jan 1st, and commented about that on Facebook. A friend messaged me and told me she'd done just the same, but was explicitly not telling people to avoid judgemental comments. Judgemental comments? lolwhut?
But any time recently people have seen I don't drink, everyone has an opinion. And 90% of those opinions are long-winded justifications on why it's ok the other person drinks.
Drinking in moderation won't kill you. Very occasionally people suggest that there are even medicinal purposes. But: life gets better without alcohol. I went out for my birthday party last night, and we had an awesome night of drunk karaoke, only, I wasn't drinking. I had a load of fun, sang like an idiot in to the microphone with my friends, and got home safe, having spent almost no cash.
Giving up drinking for me was like giving up smoking before it: I really realized I could just no longer justify doing it. Ever. It's a literal poison, and the idea that you can't bond, have fun, and have crazy nights without it is all bullshit.
I'm British, I've been crazy drunk 3 times. I don't do that often, I don't really even go clubbing anymore (last time was 6 months ago - in Hungary, gotta go back 10 months for UK clubbing).
I think the drinking culture in the UK is really bad. The French will happily drink a bottle of wine... but with a meal. I definitely drink most people get bored of it pretty quickly. I think it's insane that people get "pissed" weekly. Hangovers are not fun.
However, I have a (mini) fridge just for botted lager, which I dip into when watching football. I have a collection of 8-16year single malt whiskys which I slowly sip of occasionally. I often buy a nice bottle of ale, which goes well with a steak.
No clue why people would continue getting very drunk behond the age of 25. (I'm 21 and mostly bored of it)
This article was very helpful and it encourged me. I'm in my mid twenties and I've never drank gotten drunk (outside of sampling) and always had peers pressuring me to drink. But this article reaffirmed my reasons for not drinking. Conclusion; I don't see how drinking would enhance my life than when I am sober. Thank Bubs!
I like to drink. I love the taste of a good bitter beer. I love trying different kinds of scotch and wiskey. I've had some of the best times just drinking with friends. Everything doesn't have to be a soul searching adventure.
I don't get wild and belligerent when I drink. So there's definitely no need to be that way sober.
I agree completely despite being a frequent recreational user of drugs including alcohol. I was once an extremely shy person who on following friends to social gatherings would ignore girls hitting on me and otherwise avoid interaction. I was very lonely so I sought out drugs as a way to subdue my inhibitions. Misguided though that may have been, ecstasy in particular has helped me gain confidence in social situations (due partly to a placebo effect :). I realized that I should and would be able to be comfortable and have fun while sober if I only tried.
Drugs are fun in moderation (let's not throw the babies out with the bathwater) but only to the extent that they cause fun rather than detracting from it. In my experience for a given drug such a point of inflection always exists.
While of course his 'main idea' is solid; you don't need drugs (alcohol being a particularly addictive and unhealthy one) to have a good time, but saying that he never had “Wow, I’m so glad I did that thing I did last night. It’s significantly improved my life.“ => that's crap, at least, I am not him, but I have had that, so did all my friends. Of course you don't wake up and think 'it's significantly improved my life' (who thinks that??), but certainly 'i am so glad i did that last night'.
When forced to think about that, then yes, it significantly improved my life; I met great friends and girlfriends (which I wouldn't have met in such short period otherwise and at the time that mattered to me), had conversations with friends which were far more honest than we would've had without drink.
One case for instance I was at a very boring party, everyone was ready to go home at 10pm. I was together with my gf and we decided to drink some cocktails and go home too. After feeling a nice buzz, we started dancing alone on the big dance floor with almost no-one around (and surely no-one dancing). Another couple joined in a bit later, we started talking and that guy is now my best friend. This is over a decade ago. This would not have happened if both couples didn't drink; we would've gone home. I know there are people who can 'do this' without alcohol and now my wife and me can too, but back then it was just 'boring party, waste of time, bye' when sober. And I wouldn't like to have missed that for the world; there is almost no chance I would've met him otherwise (I know that in hindsight).
[+] [-] gst|14 years ago|reply
In my home country (Austria) I could buy alcohol at age 13 without any problems. No one would ask for an ID. I think nowadays they are a little bit stricter, but you are still legally allowed to buy alcohol once you turn 16. Once you turn a little bit older alcohol isn't that interesting any more. Of course, you'd still buy a beer (or more) if you're partying with friends, but getting totally wasted is something teenagers would do.
I've moved to the US some time ago, and here I have the impression that even people in their late-twenties get regularly drunk just "because they can" and are "allowed to do so". Seems they just never learned how to use alcohol responsibly while they were young, and at some age it's too late to learn it.
[+] [-] mekoka|14 years ago|reply
In my opinion, being responsible with alcohol requires experience, which we all know is acquired through trials and error. I share the controversial belief that parents should be the ones to responsibly shepherd their kids' drinking habits. They shouldn't just wait for them to turn 21 and discover it in the "wild", or worse, let them go in those popular drinking safaris in Canada or Mexico, where the legal age is lower and regulations somewhat more loosely applied.
[+] [-] fertel|14 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_co...
There are other reasons why "binge drinking" appears to be higher in anglo countries (US, Britain, Canada, etc...). Especially among the upper middle class. Longer work weeks than the rest of the industrialized world, less vacation days, etc... Drinking age may play a role in our propensity towards binge drinking, but I think it also has a lot to do with our "work hard, play hard" mentality.
[+] [-] munchhausen|14 years ago|reply
There is another angle to this though - is it better to engage in binge drinking right in the middle of adolescence, when the body and mind is at a rapid pace of development, or in your twenties, when you are physically better equipped to deal with the effects of excessive alcohol consumption?
I am not a medical professional, but instinctively, the second option seems to me to be the safer one.
[+] [-] petemcstanley|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajuc|14 years ago|reply
For example I weren't drinking till 18, because I was very religious in primary/secondary school, and priests encouraged promising to yourselves to never drink till 18. Most people didn't care, I did (religion is nice mind-hack, btw, it's a shame it stops working when you don't believe it anymore).
So I had to learn to party without alcohol, and I did. Some people were unfriendly because of that, but I figured they were obviously dumb, if me not drinking spoils their fun, so I won't care about them.
Then I got 18, go to university, and drink alcohol like everybody, but never feel the need to drink too much. As for now I'm 28, and I've never had hangover, or lost memory. And I was partying hard at university.
In my country you can buy alcohol from 18, but enforcement is not very strict, so kids start drinking in primary school, because it's cool, because you're gambling system. Of course most people grow up eventually. Binge drinking is a part of culture (well, wódka is Polish/Russian invention :) ), but young people prefer beer, and you have to really want to got drunk, when drinking beer, to got drunk.
I think it more depends on the attitude and example of parents (mine had drink on occasions, but I've never seen my parents drunk. They also never made the alcohol sound like it's some great forbidden fruit they had to protect me from).
[+] [-] ajarmoniuk|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noisebleed|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] olalonde|14 years ago|reply
Now we have to question the cause/effect relationship. Do we have higher age limits because we have alcohol problems or do we have alcohol problems because the age limit is high?
[+] [-] kvgr|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jmonegro|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tbsdy|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blahedo|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryanwaggoner|14 years ago|reply
Think about it like this: how many people who drink have been drunk to the point of throwing up (and subsequently hungover) more than once or twice? Most people who drink would answer yes. And that makes zero sense; what logical person would choose to experience that misery more than once? And yet many do it almost every weekend. Because alcohol screws up your brain.
[+] [-] usaar333|14 years ago|reply
OP probably does feel more "fun" in a given month than most of us. But the article comes across as though the reader has never experienced such a life.
A lot of us have - in our teenage years. The life of skinny dipping, cross-dressing, and acting like an idiot, all without the aid of alcohol, aptly describes my own. Sure, those times were fun, perhaps among the most fun of my life. But a lot of that fun came from both their novelty and ignorance of the perhaps more enjoyable adult fun (alcohol, sex). Unfortunately, as life went on, those activities grew mundane. (Besides, one seeks higher levels of happiness as he ages, for instance the self-actualization that comes with building a successful business). In a sense, I envy the author's enjoying such activities at 30 as much as a teen would. Why he thinks he is able to would make a great follow-up blog post. Most of society after all shifts to the "adult fun".
On another note, the extremism of the post bothers me. The author equates drinking alcohol with getting drunk. Which of course excessive consumption causes. But I can certainly remember everything if I consume just a few shots, but those said shots certainly make the world around me seem much more entertaining.
[+] [-] corin_|14 years ago|reply
However, I do enjoy getting drunk. I've never drunk so much I threw up, or fell over, or hit anyone, or... etc. But yes, when I'm out with friends or colleagues we will happily enjoy a night with much alcohol flowing - enough to be classed by the UK government as "booze drinking", at least.
I sometimes do or say something I feel embarassed about afterwards (most recent example was a conversation about poetry with a London taxi driver at ~5am), but nothing I've been ashamed of.
Sure, I can have fun without alcohol. Sometimes I do - certainly I've never had the thought that being drunk is a requirement for having fun. It just provides a different type of fun. Different things make you laugh, you have different conversations...
Obviously these things vary for different people, I've known people who I don't want to be around when they're drunk - but also plenty of people just like me.
edit: Just read the first paragraph of this comment and thought "I wrote that myself and even I think that sounds like an alcoholic in denial". When I'm out and drinking I'll drink a lot, when I'm at home I'll have a glass or two over an evening. If I tried to get drunk off the whisky I have at home it would be a really expensive night.
[+] [-] jakejake|14 years ago|reply
A few of my buds with the high tolerance seemed to get themselves into trouble eventually with booze, though. DUIs in particular, lots of legals bills. One turned raging alcoholic and is still in a shambles.
Not trying to say that will happen to you, I just notice of my friend for whom booze did become a problem - they share that trait of being able to drink a lot without seeking to ever get drunk.
[+] [-] dariusmonsef|14 years ago|reply
I would love to know what the beer/whisky/wine brought to your time with your friends, it it wasn't for getting drunk/buzzed? Honestly curious.
[+] [-] drewblaisdell|14 years ago|reply
If I'm at a bachelor party making gay jokes ("no homo"), the amount of alcohol I've consumed is somewhat irrelevant.
[+] [-] dariusmonsef|14 years ago|reply
I definitely don't suggest people act like idiots. I was simply trying to relate to the people that are probably overdoing it the most.
[+] [-] alexholehouse|14 years ago|reply
Maybe it's not relevant for some people - if you're not the kind of person who parties and gets drunk regularly (where regularity is obviously subjective) then clearly his experience may well be irrelevant. On the other hand, if you are, maybe you can try it - maybe it won't work for you and maybe it will.
[+] [-] dariusmonsef|14 years ago|reply
The hostile reaction was a bit of a surprise.
[+] [-] ccollins|14 years ago|reply
After dinner, his father (a Doctor, along with 80% of the family) shared his views about alcohol, predicting that in one generation alcohol will be socially rejected the way tobacco is today because of how utterly destructive alcohol is to the human body.
Remember! Just 50 years ago, the majority of the United States had no problem with cigarettes.
I still drink, along with almost every adult I know, though I cannot help but think that my friend's dad is right.
[+] [-] commandar|14 years ago|reply
I think this has a likelihood approaching nil.
The consumption of alcohol is literally as old as human civilization; humans first stumbled upon fermenting grains into ale around the time humans first began farming.
There would have to be some sort of ground breaking discovery to attach the same sort of health stigma to alcohol as tobacco. Right now, the research is extremely mixed. The continual debate over possible health benefits of wine would be one indicator. The fact that data indicates that complete abstainers generally live shorter lives than those who drink would be another.[1]
>Remember! Just 50 years ago, the majority of the United States had no problem with cigarettes.
Remember! Less than 100 years ago, the anti-alcohol movement in the United States was strong enough to put Prohibition into place.
And what's interesting about that is that it illuminates another key place where I think the idea that alcohol will suddenly become socially unacceptable is completely off the mark. We've consumed alcohol for thousands of years, and we've been fairly aware of its destructive effects for nearly as long because alcohol is more immediately destructive than tobacco.
One of the biggest drivers of the temperance movement in the late 19th and early 20th century were women. In the time predating modern social safety nets and women's liberation movements, a woman with a drunk for a husband would end up with mouths to feed and very few options for making an income.
Yet prohibition was a disaster on a grand scale because society at large rejected it. It would take a major sea change for things to be any different today or in 50 years.
[1]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200,00....
[+] [-] pwthornton|14 years ago|reply
In fact, people who drink live longer than those that don't: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200,00....
Even heavy drinkers outlive those who abstain. Let that sink in.
The big issue with drinking isn't what happens to one's body, but rather what drinking causes some to do -- drunk driving, rape, assaults, etc. The biggest scourge from drinking is that it causes some people to do terrible things. And while heavy drinking can cause issues with one's body, that pales in comparison to what a drunk can do to others.
[+] [-] corin_|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jamesredman|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lunarscape|14 years ago|reply
He's not the only doctor to think that way. "Alcohol is the most dangerous drug in the UK by a considerable margin, beating heroin and crack cocaine into second and third place, according to an authoritative study published today which will reopen calls for the drugs classification system to be scrapped and a concerted campaign launched against drink." http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/nov/01/alcohol-more-h...
[+] [-] zobzu|14 years ago|reply
oh uhm, actually it appears we do with great details. Damn.
[+] [-] georgieporgie|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Lewton|14 years ago|reply
I definitely got the "Wow, you've been sober for 4 months?!? But we partied so hard last friday!" thing a lot. When people are drunk, they really don't notice you not being drunk..
I agree with most of the article, and will probably go back on the wagon again soon. But he left out some of the negative stuff... For example.. How grating it gets when your friends get so drunk that they start to repeat themselves... Over and over again.. And how hard it can be to get a point across to someone who's drunk when you're sober. Making conversations, at times, highly frustrating. When I'm drunk I'm just as stupid and the conversations run smoothly!
[+] [-] watty|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xiaoma|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pwthornton|14 years ago|reply
I do want to add before I write more that if you don't enjoy drinking, don't do it. Just because other people are doing it that doesn't mean you should. I know some people who don't actually enjoy alcohol, but they still feel like it's the thing to do socially. If you enjoy not drinking, rock it.
If you're out of your early 20s and you're still getting drunk regularly, you probably have an alcohol problem. I'm 27 and haven't been drunk in years. I drink a few times a week and usually only have a drink or two. I might have three-ish tomorrow because of the big game.
It's fine if you don't want to drink, but there is something missing from his story. Maybe he needed to stop drinking, but many of us can responsibly handle and enjoy alcohol.
I love beer. I love trying different kinds of beer. I love the taste, and I want to discover new kinds.
If you're drinking alcohol just to get drunk that's the issue. Many of us drink beer, wine or mixed drinks because we actually enjoy the drink.
I know I have a few tasty microbrews lined up for tomorrow.
[+] [-] yason|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dove|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dariusmonsef|14 years ago|reply
And the buddhist in my fully appreciates a moderation / middle way approach... But what is that glass of wine getting you? Is it strictly a taste thing? Is it the antioxidants? My guess is there are comparable things that would be you those same positive results of a glass of wine.
[+] [-] physcab|14 years ago|reply
Yes alcohol can be abused. But just because you choose to get shitfaced doesn't mean you don't know how to have fun the "real" way. It also doesn't mean you're an alcoholic. And just because you don't drink, doesn't mean you're the outcast.
Your post would have been a lot more meaningful if you neglected the part about the alcohol altogether. I think what's inspiring is that you chose to go down a different path and it led to amazing things in your life. Drinking is irrelevant and takes away from the good message you try to convey.
[+] [-] peteretep|14 years ago|reply
But any time recently people have seen I don't drink, everyone has an opinion. And 90% of those opinions are long-winded justifications on why it's ok the other person drinks.
Drinking in moderation won't kill you. Very occasionally people suggest that there are even medicinal purposes. But: life gets better without alcohol. I went out for my birthday party last night, and we had an awesome night of drunk karaoke, only, I wasn't drinking. I had a load of fun, sang like an idiot in to the microphone with my friends, and got home safe, having spent almost no cash.
Giving up drinking for me was like giving up smoking before it: I really realized I could just no longer justify doing it. Ever. It's a literal poison, and the idea that you can't bond, have fun, and have crazy nights without it is all bullshit.
[+] [-] grogs|14 years ago|reply
I think the drinking culture in the UK is really bad. The French will happily drink a bottle of wine... but with a meal. I definitely drink most people get bored of it pretty quickly. I think it's insane that people get "pissed" weekly. Hangovers are not fun.
However, I have a (mini) fridge just for botted lager, which I dip into when watching football. I have a collection of 8-16year single malt whiskys which I slowly sip of occasionally. I often buy a nice bottle of ale, which goes well with a steak.
No clue why people would continue getting very drunk behond the age of 25. (I'm 21 and mostly bored of it)
[+] [-] zobzu|14 years ago|reply
It's about he had a cancer in the eye, realized life's short, cancer got fixed and he lived his life the way he actually wanted but never dared to.
[+] [-] kennethologist|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geuis|14 years ago|reply
I don't get wild and belligerent when I drink. So there's definitely no need to be that way sober.
[+] [-] mdmarocks|14 years ago|reply
Drugs are fun in moderation (let's not throw the babies out with the bathwater) but only to the extent that they cause fun rather than detracting from it. In my experience for a given drug such a point of inflection always exists.
Drinking for the taste also makes sense.
[+] [-] tluyben2|14 years ago|reply
When forced to think about that, then yes, it significantly improved my life; I met great friends and girlfriends (which I wouldn't have met in such short period otherwise and at the time that mattered to me), had conversations with friends which were far more honest than we would've had without drink.
One case for instance I was at a very boring party, everyone was ready to go home at 10pm. I was together with my gf and we decided to drink some cocktails and go home too. After feeling a nice buzz, we started dancing alone on the big dance floor with almost no-one around (and surely no-one dancing). Another couple joined in a bit later, we started talking and that guy is now my best friend. This is over a decade ago. This would not have happened if both couples didn't drink; we would've gone home. I know there are people who can 'do this' without alcohol and now my wife and me can too, but back then it was just 'boring party, waste of time, bye' when sober. And I wouldn't like to have missed that for the world; there is almost no chance I would've met him otherwise (I know that in hindsight).