All the numbers given here seem tiny in comparison to the emissions from manufacturing or using a car. It seems like premature optimization at best, and might even be counterproductive by implying that because some bikes are more sustainable than others, bikes are somehow unsustainable as a whole.
>Reynolds, a British manufacturer known for its bicycle tubing, found that making a steel frame costs 17.5 kg CO2, while a titanium or stainless steel frame costs around 55 kg CO2 per frame – three times as much.
For the uninitiated: that is less than one tank of gas (ca 70 kg CO2) in my Toyota Prius.
There's nothing wrong with continuous improvement but when you are trying to fine tune something in the flat portion of an exponential scale, and lets face it, even the most expensive bike shown here is 1/2 the burden of an ICE engine car, you have to ask yourself: is this optimisation really the core problem?
I argue: it's not. It's polishing. It's functionally a bit time-wast-y compared to reductions in the cost, and price of ebikes.
I tell you what I'd like as a bike rider: I'd like the post evergiven/covid supply chain behind my brake fluid fixed. It's insanely expensive to replace brakes and gears and wheels on a street bike these days: I ride a Movida 200 which is a pretty average, low end disc-brake unit with fluid breaklines, and I am up for a horrendous cost in parts to replace: the labour I can understand, this isn't a zero-work job. But the supply chain fragility in bicycles is truly scary: I paid twice the base cost of my (admitedly secondhand) bike, repairing it these last 2 years.
I know: I should learn to do this myself. I did once long ago last century take apart a sturmy-archer 3 speed hub gear, and remake it, and I did have no left over parts. Amazing. Some of the springs were like fairy-floss. Now, I have old person shakey hands and to be frank I'd rather pay a hipster to do it for me, but the parts cost is just obscene. I'm not paying his tattoo costs, this is some anonymous bike part warehouse in the cloud, which is ripping us all off worldwide.
Low Tech Magazine has always been more of an entertainment blog with creative and unusual solutions. Their stuff rarely seems to be practical or reasonable but it is a fascinating read anyway.
>I paid twice the base cost of my (admitedly secondhand) bike, repairing it these last 2 years.
Because the base price of a bike is just about nothing. So it makes sense that skilled labor quickly overtakes the cost. And you usually get a hefty discount on the price of the bike when you buy it second hand considering just about everything on the bike excluding the frame is a consumable item.
I paid about $1,000 for a steel-frame touring bike about 15 years ago. I commute/run errands for a few thousand miles a year on it. Every 2-3 years, I get it overhauled at a cost of about $500. Other than that, I’ve replaced wheels and tires a few times and break pads on average about once a year, plus the occasional random issue.
So for me, the cost of maintenance quickly outpaced the cost of the bike. But it’s still a pittance compared to the cost of car ownership.
I would say don’t learn to do maintenance yourself unless it’s something you enjoy. I enjoy riding my bike but hate tinkering with and fixing things. My bike is to get me around, not be a source of grief and annoyance.
What kind of weird brakes do you have on your bike? I can easily buy Shimano Ultegra (which is pretty high-end) brake calipers on Amazon for roughly USD$65, and a big bottle of brake oil is less than $15. Cheaper-brand or lower-end calipers are of course, cheaper, easily less than $50 each. And brake calipers aren't something you normally need to replace anyway. Pads are easily available too, both name-brand and Chinese knock-offs that probably last 1/3 as long for 1/10 the cost. What supply-chain problem are you referring to? I don't see any.
There is a bike shop in Marin that does some custom bike work, one of which is replacing these famous brakes which cost $1,500 PER brake, and one of the things he needs, which they dont manufacture any longer is a single washer that is specific to that brake - and since you cant get these parts any longer, the brakes are nuts expensive...
You don't need disc brakes. You don't need carbon frames, or even aluminum ones.
These things are marginally better performing than their predecessors, but we want things to get better and better forever. That is exactly what makes it unsustainable.
We'd be better off settling for good and sustainable than best and unsustainable. That's all.
I ride a titanium bike with rim brakes. It was custom made, and relatively expensive ($5,000 USD), but it is the only bike I ride, and it will last my entire lifetime, and more (it will require occasional component upgrades, just like any other bike). Plus, the ride quality is superb. I've found that, as with most things, investing in quality over quantity is the way to go. My bike may have been slightly 'less green' to manufacture, but I only need one, ever.
This website offers a lighter weight version of itself if anyone would prefer that[1]. It's so slim the author runs it on a computer running entirely off solar power. It's good to see more of their articles being posted!
I think some of their numbers are a bit misleading. The paper that calculates the CO2 usage of e-cargo bike vs e-van compares a huge 4-wheeled electric cargo "bike" (sum-x) with the smallest van they could find (nissan e-nv).
The kinds of cargo bikes that people get for home use are much smaller and presumably use a lot less CO2 than the commercial transporter with pedals they looked at in the paper.
I feel like modern bicycles seem to be optimized for light weight over ease of maintenance and longevity.
Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks, These are not going to be very attractive to people who use other means of transport, because cars don't need this sort of frequent maintenance.
> Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks
Yes and no. Modern 11/12 speed chains maybe, but my commuter (9-spd) gets lube every 4 months or so. Yes, I have to monitor the chain wear and change it every few years, but that’s not very complicated. It goes to the workshop less often than the car.
They’re more expensive, but you can find non-electric bikes with a belt drive and a gearbox or gear hub which are very low maintenance.
"modern bicycles" is a bit of a weird description, because the main defining characteristic of modern bicycles (even going back as little as the last 5 years) is a huge amount of variance in the design to suit specific purposes.
and there's plenty of companies making "city bikes" that don't require super-frequent mainenance and are designed for durability and ease of use. you can get a bike optimized for light weight, but you absolutely don't have to.
I must be doing something terribly wrong. I've had my bike for 7 years now, use it every second day, in all kinds of weather, and I lube it twice a year at best. It ought to be falling apart!
What's your basis for your claim of such frequent maintenance? Also, what do you mean by a modern bike?
I have my high maintenance carbon road bike, but I also have a belt drive commuter bike. Belt drive bikes with hydraulic disc brakes and internal gear hubs rarely need maintenance, basically just an annual checkup on brake pads, tires, and maybe a brake bleed.
From what I've observed, moderately priced bikes tend to be more sane in terms of adhering to mainstream component standards. For instance I bought a fairly generic "sporty looking hybrid" in 2006 for which I've had no problems sourcing parts -- although very few parts have been needed. Outside of competitive or off road use, good bike parts are actually quite reliable and last a long time.
Trek, Giant, Specialized, Raleigh, Fuji... Some of these have become "just a brand name" under new ownership.
I also have a bike that I threw together from 40 year old parts, and can still get any replacement that I need from Amazon or eBay. I suspect demand from overseas may be keeping some parts for older bikes available.
I think you can contribute a lot to the lifespan of a bike by learning to do a bit of your own maintenance, so you can spot minor issues before they turn into component failures.
At least some of the big name bike brands have lifetime warranties on the frames. Everything else can be considered a consumable item. Not because it's designed poorly but because you'd rather your bike weigh 10kg less than increase the lifespan of some parts from 5 to 50 years.
When I worked at my local bike shop we promoted Seven Cycles as a custom alternative to the retail stuff we were pushing. I know we had several riders who had their bikes well over 15+ years. The titanium frameset lasted easily that long, along with some wheel sets, brake upgrades and component upgrades along the way - but overall the frame and fork seemed to really have some longevity.
They aren't cheap but the investment I've been told is worth it:
Probably the best and simplest indicator is to look for 8 or 9 speed on the back wheel, or a premium rear gearbox like a rohloff, or either a 3 or 5 speed sun gearbox like a sturmey archer or shimano 3 speed.
Brands will vary both in servicability between models and which hrands are available.
Avoid any integrated electric parts that the frame is builtaround (but a bolt on motor and battery is fine whether the motor is fitted to the wheel or pedals).
usually if the bike is not a triathlon bike and the seat post is cylindrical, everything else on the bike beside frame are replaceable with plenty options. And most of the lower end of each brands filled with these
You think this generation is going to be riding more bicycles?
Likely far far less, the roads are insanely dangerous and toxic now.
I don't know what it is like in other cities but in mine at least one out of ten vehicles is now one of those new ridiculous monster sized trucks that not only cannot see you, they wouldn't care if they did.
The bicycle lane line is now something to cruise over for these drivers while they look down at their phones.
It's only going to take one more generation for people to stop even trying to bike anywhere, people don't want to be that stressed out.
In my city they are massively increasing the bike lane network, along with the city run bike service. The result is that bike ridership has been increasing steadily with each passing year.
I absolutely expect more people to be riding bicycles in this generation. It would be a complete failure on urban planners / municipal governments if that were not to happen.
Yup. I used to be an avid road biker, 10-40mi rides multiple time per week, hopping on 80mi day trips, Tuesday evening time trials, racing, etc.
But it has been over a decade since my road bike has seen pavement. I keep it to mountain biking on trails now because the traffic everywhere has gotten too insane, and the drivers just seem less and less aware/alert/smart/skilled.
And I've noticed in the last few month bad news of almost a half dozen champion bike racers killed on roads, the most memorable one in Italy, and one in San Francisco last week. The risk just doesn't seem manageable anymore.
This is the opposite of the direction we should be going, but it is what we have.
You're describing the status quo since streets were handed over to cars and prioritized over everything else. Bicycle gutters were always something inattentive or malicious drivers cruise into.
That's not to say those yank tanks aren't crazy dangerous; they absolutely are. But getting rid of them doesn't make bicycling safe. Cars as a whole are the hazard.
thenoblesunfish|2 years ago
scythe|2 years ago
For the uninitiated: that is less than one tank of gas (ca 70 kg CO2) in my Toyota Prius.
jxramos|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
ggm|2 years ago
I argue: it's not. It's polishing. It's functionally a bit time-wast-y compared to reductions in the cost, and price of ebikes.
I tell you what I'd like as a bike rider: I'd like the post evergiven/covid supply chain behind my brake fluid fixed. It's insanely expensive to replace brakes and gears and wheels on a street bike these days: I ride a Movida 200 which is a pretty average, low end disc-brake unit with fluid breaklines, and I am up for a horrendous cost in parts to replace: the labour I can understand, this isn't a zero-work job. But the supply chain fragility in bicycles is truly scary: I paid twice the base cost of my (admitedly secondhand) bike, repairing it these last 2 years.
I know: I should learn to do this myself. I did once long ago last century take apart a sturmy-archer 3 speed hub gear, and remake it, and I did have no left over parts. Amazing. Some of the springs were like fairy-floss. Now, I have old person shakey hands and to be frank I'd rather pay a hipster to do it for me, but the parts cost is just obscene. I'm not paying his tattoo costs, this is some anonymous bike part warehouse in the cloud, which is ripping us all off worldwide.
Gigachad|2 years ago
>I paid twice the base cost of my (admitedly secondhand) bike, repairing it these last 2 years.
Because the base price of a bike is just about nothing. So it makes sense that skilled labor quickly overtakes the cost. And you usually get a hefty discount on the price of the bike when you buy it second hand considering just about everything on the bike excluding the frame is a consumable item.
paulcole|2 years ago
So for me, the cost of maintenance quickly outpaced the cost of the bike. But it’s still a pittance compared to the cost of car ownership.
I would say don’t learn to do maintenance yourself unless it’s something you enjoy. I enjoy riding my bike but hate tinkering with and fixing things. My bike is to get me around, not be a source of grief and annoyance.
midoridensha|2 years ago
samstave|2 years ago
gorjusborg|2 years ago
You don't need disc brakes. You don't need carbon frames, or even aluminum ones.
These things are marginally better performing than their predecessors, but we want things to get better and better forever. That is exactly what makes it unsustainable.
We'd be better off settling for good and sustainable than best and unsustainable. That's all.
hammyhavoc|2 years ago
cyclotron3k|2 years ago
nmpennypacker|2 years ago
abrookewood|2 years ago
mitchbob|2 years ago
pfych|2 years ago
[1]: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycl...
newaccount74|2 years ago
The kinds of cargo bikes that people get for home use are much smaller and presumably use a lot less CO2 than the commercial transporter with pedals they looked at in the paper.
diebeforei485|2 years ago
Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks, These are not going to be very attractive to people who use other means of transport, because cars don't need this sort of frequent maintenance.
anotherboffin|2 years ago
Yes and no. Modern 11/12 speed chains maybe, but my commuter (9-spd) gets lube every 4 months or so. Yes, I have to monitor the chain wear and change it every few years, but that’s not very complicated. It goes to the workshop less often than the car.
They’re more expensive, but you can find non-electric bikes with a belt drive and a gearbox or gear hub which are very low maintenance.
notatoad|2 years ago
and there's plenty of companies making "city bikes" that don't require super-frequent mainenance and are designed for durability and ease of use. you can get a bike optimized for light weight, but you absolutely don't have to.
svorakang|2 years ago
What's your basis for your claim of such frequent maintenance? Also, what do you mean by a modern bike?
cowmoo728|2 years ago
leemailll|2 years ago
harha|2 years ago
renewiltord|2 years ago
htag|2 years ago
snotrockets|2 years ago
Ask your local, independent bike shop for specific recommendations if you need those. Bikes components are highly standardized.
analog31|2 years ago
Trek, Giant, Specialized, Raleigh, Fuji... Some of these have become "just a brand name" under new ownership.
I also have a bike that I threw together from 40 year old parts, and can still get any replacement that I need from Amazon or eBay. I suspect demand from overseas may be keeping some parts for older bikes available.
I think you can contribute a lot to the lifespan of a bike by learning to do a bit of your own maintenance, so you can spot minor issues before they turn into component failures.
Gigachad|2 years ago
at-fates-hands|2 years ago
They aren't cheap but the investment I've been told is worth it:
https://www.sevencycles.com/
Schroedingersat|2 years ago
Brands will vary both in servicability between models and which hrands are available.
Avoid any integrated electric parts that the frame is builtaround (but a bolt on motor and battery is fine whether the motor is fitted to the wheel or pedals).
fabianhjr|2 years ago
Disclaimer: Own an Orbea Vector and love it.
leemailll|2 years ago
simlevesque|2 years ago
wrycoder|2 years ago
rivbike.com
ck2|2 years ago
Likely far far less, the roads are insanely dangerous and toxic now.
I don't know what it is like in other cities but in mine at least one out of ten vehicles is now one of those new ridiculous monster sized trucks that not only cannot see you, they wouldn't care if they did.
The bicycle lane line is now something to cruise over for these drivers while they look down at their phones.
It's only going to take one more generation for people to stop even trying to bike anywhere, people don't want to be that stressed out.
JambalayaJim|2 years ago
I absolutely expect more people to be riding bicycles in this generation. It would be a complete failure on urban planners / municipal governments if that were not to happen.
toss1|2 years ago
But it has been over a decade since my road bike has seen pavement. I keep it to mountain biking on trails now because the traffic everywhere has gotten too insane, and the drivers just seem less and less aware/alert/smart/skilled.
And I've noticed in the last few month bad news of almost a half dozen champion bike racers killed on roads, the most memorable one in Italy, and one in San Francisco last week. The risk just doesn't seem manageable anymore.
This is the opposite of the direction we should be going, but it is what we have.
ben-schaaf|2 years ago
That's not to say those yank tanks aren't crazy dangerous; they absolutely are. But getting rid of them doesn't make bicycling safe. Cars as a whole are the hazard.
Schroedingersat|2 years ago
dumpsterlid|2 years ago
[deleted]
throwaway22032|2 years ago
That's about 2 months worth of my diet. Maybe less.
Like, if I cycle for an hour I'll burn enough calories to produce approx 1kg co2e from the foods I eat.
This is "switch off your LED light bulb" levels of daft.
deafpolygon|2 years ago
vrglvrglvrgl|2 years ago
[deleted]
xiphias2|2 years ago