CrabLang

[jadodev]

> This was not a "knee-jerk" reaction, nor was it an attempt to spread fear or cause panic. While the document the foundation drafted did lead to the fork, we believe it is an overdue solution to a problem that already existed, and addresses some issues that many community members have had for some time.

This is obviously very knee-jerk and will either die or end up creating the same bureaucracy that Rust has. People love to complain about bureaucracy without understanding it exists for many reasons. The Rust teams are far more equipped to handle the development of Rust than anyone entertaining this fork (unless, of course, a significant number of members of the Rust teams decide to move over).

[bogwog]

> The Rust teams are far more equipped to handle the development of Rust than anyone entertaining this fork (unless, of course, a significant number of members of the Rust teams decide to move over).

As a form of protest against the silly Rust Foundation, a fork of the language which is simply a rebranded mirror of Rust sources would work.

[armchairhacker]

The Rust trademark is proposal published literally to see what the community thinks. And the community thinks…it’s a bad idea.

So as long as the foundation changes their mind I really don’t think they‘ve done anything wrong, and anyone who’s said “the Rust foundation is trademarking the name ‘Rust’” or “the Rust foundation has trademarked the name ‘Rust’” overreacted.

If they listen to all this feedback and still move forward with the trademark, then they’re truly awful, since they, the leaders of this “community-driven organization”. just ignored 90% of the community. But that hasn’t happened yet, in fact all they’ve done is actively “seek community input” by publishing this draft.

[lwansbrough]

+1. The reaction to the recent developments is in range of being a case of mass hysteria. Unbelievable levels of cringe and FUD being produced by a few prominent members of the community.

[rvz]

So here comes the in-fighting. Looks like someone listened to the call to action to fork the language [0] and just did that to their 'beloved' language.

Again, the moment the Rust Foundation chose to be a 501(c)(6) it was all going to go downhill from there as I and others have warned about this [1] years before.

There is a good reason why other language foundations like Python Software Foundation, NumFocus (Julia lang), D Language Foundation, Zig Software Foundation, R Foundation, etc, are 501(c)(3).

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35524666

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583460

[woodruffw]

I’m struggling to understand why the IRS nonprofit type is material here. Your previous post doesn’t really explain it either: a 501(c)(3) can impose trademark restrictions in the exact same way.

[owlglass]

From the GitHub repo:

* A community fork of a language named after a plant fungus. All of the memory-safe features you love, now with 100% less bureaucracy! *

I assumed with the 'oxide' and 'ferrous' references that Rust's etymology had to do with corrosion, and while that's part of the explanation, it's mostly about fungi [1]

[1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/16494822/why-is-it-calle...

[adrianmonk]

I assumed it was a joke based on the phrase "close to the metal" (zero-cost abstractions allowing high-level features without sacrificing performance). Nothing is closer to metal than an oxidation layer.

[Sindisil]

This is similar to all the snake references around Python. That language being named after Monty Python's Flying Circus.

[Waterluvian]

Wow had no idea. My assumption was it was about building something so durable and stable that it’ll be around forever.

Which doesn’t make sense given oxidization slowly robs something of its durability. But Discord is named using a word that means “disagreement and lack of harmony” so I kind of look past weird branding in tech.

[lucasyvas]

Fortunately I'm in it for the language and not the name - the fork likely just stands to prove a point and it'll probably end there. But if the governance turns out to be ridiculous the dominant fork will eventually change and most would follow that without hesitation I'd think.

Contributors won't want to work on the whatever the "inferior" version is.

[programmarchy]

Reminds me of the io.js [1] fork of Node in the battle with Joyent.

[1] https://gist.github.com/maxogden/d96123138522c84cdb25

[jitl]

IO forked for technical reasons because Joyent wouldn’t entertain improvements. This rust drama is because some programming Youtubers/streamers don’t understand copyright and fair use, and of course want to bait rage clicks.

[The_Colonel]

So ... will anyone reveal the secret and say of which language this is a fork ok?

No samples, no documentation, vague reference to "plant fungus"?

[Brian_K_White]

Part of the point is that if you read the Rust foundation's recent document strictly enough, anyone else aren't actually allowed to say the name Rust, since they didn't get explicit permission and/or aren't willing to comply with all of the terms.

So they don't dare say the name to avoid any chance of being sued.

Not that it's actually likely, but the point is that the document is that bad, so IF you take it at it's word, then well that's how it evaluates out, is the only way to be safe is just don't use the actual logo or name at all. Anything else you do technically runs afoul of at least one of the many terms and conditions in there.

[mjmsmith]

https://extension.umn.edu/plant-diseases/cedar-apple-rust

[a2800276]

Rust

[spencerchubb]

So the only difference with CrabLang is that others are allowed to use the CrabLang name and logo in the ecosystem?

And I don't think CrabLang will be allowed to just copy the Rust logo.

[sporkl]

The logo CrabLang is using is Ferris, which is not an official Rust logo, and also in the public domain I believe.

https://www.rustacean.net/

[toomuchtodo]

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35510987

[muyuu]

Is it ok to include the copyright message from Rust including references to Rust? https://github.com/crablang/crab/blob/master/COPYRIGHT

What about attribution?

[bogwog]

CrabLang - the world’s most unpolished programming language!

[apaxson]

My favourite part is the PR to delete the entire repo.

[tcmart14]

Easiest code review of my life. Can't let bad code through a code review if there is no code at all!

[doodlesdev]

https://archive.ph/o4It6

[wiz21c]

FTA:

> Our main goal is to ensure that the community has an alternative that aligns with their values and desire for unrestricted use.

How is the use restricted nowadays ?

Moreover, wouldn't it be better to help the gcc's rust front end ? GNU will protect the community for sure.

[spion]

There is a new proposed trademark policy that bans the use of the "rust" trademark in domain names, package names and educational material (unless the educational material starts with a disclamer denouncing affiliation with the Rust (TM) Foundation https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/12e7tdb/rust_trademar...)

[rascul]

Is rust-gcc an allowed name according to the draft policy?

[zokier]

"lighthearted" and has logo/mascot brandishing a knife not in a friendly way.

[serial_dev]

I believe it's based on the "mess with crabo, get a stabo" meme.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-mess-with-crabo-you-get-a...

And let's not pretend that it is anything other than a lighthearted joke.

[bmacho]

tl;dr: you can't announce your project on HN with "written in Rust" at the end of the title, but you can say "written in Crab" instead.

That's it. Everyone loses, the Rust foundation, the Rust users, and the people who don't care about any of them.

[jitl]

There’s nothing in the new trademark policy that discourages saying “written in Rust”

[daviddever23box]

You Rust folk are easily wound up.

[speed_spread]

Raging Freedom Fighters overtaking that fork in 3,2,1...

[numeromancer]

This project will be like a cancer for the rust community.

[downvotetruth]

Any pincer attack damage will help get rid of any free radicals by forming a new oxidation layer.

[yebyen]

I see what you did there.

[Brian_K_White]

It's too bad the name is so terrible. It would have been unlikely enough for a fork to go anywhere even without that.

I might have tried "Trust".

[EntrePrescott]

"Trust" would sound nice, but it contains "rust" so it might have given an attack surface for a trademark infringement lawsuit by some un-t-rust-able foundation.