I'm thrilled that they're finally looking at these issues. I would like to own a tiny pickup, like the old Tacomas, but the way the regulations are written prevents anyone from manufacturing something small and efficient, all trucks are behemoths now. I'd love to kill the trend of making everything an SUV as well. Bring back the more efficient sedans. Families going to soccer practice should have a station wagon or minivan, not a four wheel drive Suburban.
> regulations are written prevents anyone from manufacturing something small and efficient
This isn't true. The regulations set a minimum allowed MPG is based on size. Manufacturers have decided it's cheaper/easier to build bigger vehicles with worse MPG, than build the previous size with better MPG.
As much as I agree that this is great news, I would like to see something that isn't focused exclusively on emissions - or even weight for that matter. As important as those are, I would also like to see something that focuses on size as well. There is so much potential in small vehicles, but it is stymied by the proportion of over-sized vehicles on the road. Something to short circuit the 'visibility arms race' would be welcome in my opinion.
The SUV Loophole was not a consumer decision. It was a bill passed by Congress after lobbying by the big three automakers who had a niche they could compete against the Japanese and the Europeans. Without it, our domestic automobile industry would have died. It won’t be closed unless the big three have another profitable path forward. I expect electrification is that path with products like the F-150 lightning. The vehicles will not get smaller once battery density and price points are met. I’d actually predict them to get larger. If I could drive an electric suburban, charged by my solar array - why wouldn’t I?
> If I could drive an electric suburban, charged by my solar array
Could an Average American home solar install actually charge enough to match their consumption (average daily miles), and with such a big vehicle (very heavy, moreso as electric)?
IMHO Americans might like these if they ever got a chance to buy them : https://www.autotrader.co.uk/cars/citroen/berlingo.
Super practical. Not exactly beautiful but hardly worse than a lot of things that cost 4x the price. Take tons of stuff around with you. Fuel efficient. Affordable new, without a huge income. What's not to like? Well, apart from some people being anti-French, they aren't sold in USA presumably because US car-makers and lobby groups have kept them out.
I've been looking for a new small car in the US. There really aren't any options any more. Even the 'small' cars are all 4 doors and I only want 2. All I can come up with is:
Mini and MX-5
I'd love to go electric but the Mini-E range is terrible (~100 miles). They are supposed to be coming out with a new version that doubles the range though, so at least that is good.
So regulations on small cars forced people to buy larger vehicles, and their solution is even more regulations, just this time on larger vehicles? How about just relax regulations on the smallest vehicles, making them more feasible?
No the regulations did not cause people to buy trucks/suvs. It exempted them from fuel efficiency requirements. People want to drive tanks but if we make tanks expensive they won’t. I’m not sure though if it’ll work since the average truck/suv is 50k with many close to 80k.
What they need to do is increase visibility requirements and make the trucks safer for pedestrians.
I’d limit the carveout to trucks with a certain minimum bed size. If you’re using most of the space for seating instead of a cargo bed, you aren’t actually using it as a utility truck.
What's always missing from this discussions is mention of the social norms of the upper middle class who do the bulk of the new car buying and who's preferences determine the shape of the new and used car market. Sure, the CAFE rules are dumb but the behavior of the people who who are spending $50k on midsize pickups and $40k on electric sedans can't solely be explained by a nudge at the margins of tax policy.
As long as the people who's demands and preferences do the lions share of shaping the new car market act like stuffing two car seats into anything less than a 3-row SUV or hauling bulk material on a tarp in a station wagon/crossover is some large burden SUVs/crossovers and pickups will continue to fly off the metaphorical shelves. And this is a self-reinforcing pattern. If people feel like buying a lot of vehicle is the kind of thing that successful white collar professionals do then that's what people with that kind of money will do, at least at the margins.
People buy large cars because that’s what’s available. Anecdotal example: I grew up driving Toyota Camrys. Nice car, lasts forever. At some point in the 2010s they started getting bigger, larger turn radius, lower visibility - all around a worse product.
People wanted rear wheel drive, American made, V8 powered cars. Detroit stopped making those, so people compromised and bought pickup trucks and SUVs. Now Detroit will be forced to stop making those.
You don't want a V8 powered RWD car. Car manufacturers spend huge amounts of money to make you want a V8 powered car. When everyone has an EV, TV ads show cool new EV's and make you look backward for even thinking about burning gasoline you will want an EV.
I frequently have a train of thought for “why so many SUVs” and then remember a line from David Foster Wallace’s “This is Water” speech [0]…
“ it’s not impossible that some of these people in SUV’s have been in horrible auto accidents in the past, and now find driving so terrifying that their therapist has all but ordered them to get a huge, heavy SUV so they can feel safe enough to drive.”
This specific speech changed my way of thinking from considering all these soccer moms in SUVs as jerks sucking up resources into more nuance that maybe they have reasons for why they want a big vehicle and don’t mind paying extra for gas because of it.
It also helped me when my adult child really wanted a big SUV as their first car even though they had no kids, no dogs, no sports with equipment. It was kind of inexplicable to me why they wanted a big SUV, but this quote made me relax and trust that they had a good reason.
[+] [-] TexanFeller|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jawmes8|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] op00to|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] malfist|2 years ago|reply
This isn't true. The regulations set a minimum allowed MPG is based on size. Manufacturers have decided it's cheaper/easier to build bigger vehicles with worse MPG, than build the previous size with better MPG.
[+] [-] SyzygistSix|2 years ago|reply
Is that a type of wagon I am unfamiliar with?
[+] [-] baseline-shift|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tmnvix|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Paul-Craft|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jmpman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maerF0x0|2 years ago|reply
Could an Average American home solar install actually charge enough to match their consumption (average daily miles), and with such a big vehicle (very heavy, moreso as electric)?
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|2 years ago|reply
But ya, I totally expect for the canyonero EV to come out and be popular.
[+] [-] cozzyd|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hinkley|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nickd2001|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] latchkey|2 years ago|reply
Mini and MX-5
I'd love to go electric but the Mini-E range is terrible (~100 miles). They are supposed to be coming out with a new version that doubles the range though, so at least that is good.
[+] [-] smackeyacky|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] derdlick|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theGnuMe|2 years ago|reply
What they need to do is increase visibility requirements and make the trucks safer for pedestrians.
[+] [-] AlecSchueler|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ummonk|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|2 years ago|reply
As long as the people who's demands and preferences do the lions share of shaping the new car market act like stuffing two car seats into anything less than a 3-row SUV or hauling bulk material on a tarp in a station wagon/crossover is some large burden SUVs/crossovers and pickups will continue to fly off the metaphorical shelves. And this is a self-reinforcing pattern. If people feel like buying a lot of vehicle is the kind of thing that successful white collar professionals do then that's what people with that kind of money will do, at least at the margins.
[+] [-] AbrahamParangi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Proven|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] RecycledEle|2 years ago|reply
Just let people but what they want.
[+] [-] bzzzt|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smackeyacky|2 years ago|reply
Same thing happened here in Australia. Lots of hand wringing over the fate of our big, RWD sedans, but Mazda 3 and Hiluxes were where the money went.
[+] [-] xqcgrek2|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Gigachad|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prepend|2 years ago|reply
“ it’s not impossible that some of these people in SUV’s have been in horrible auto accidents in the past, and now find driving so terrifying that their therapist has all but ordered them to get a huge, heavy SUV so they can feel safe enough to drive.”
This specific speech changed my way of thinking from considering all these soccer moms in SUVs as jerks sucking up resources into more nuance that maybe they have reasons for why they want a big vehicle and don’t mind paying extra for gas because of it.
It also helped me when my adult child really wanted a big SUV as their first car even though they had no kids, no dogs, no sports with equipment. It was kind of inexplicable to me why they wanted a big SUV, but this quote made me relax and trust that they had a good reason.
[0] https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/