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itsameta4 | 2 years ago

The dots are indeed called umlauts, at least in English:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umlaut_(diacritic)

discuss

order

henrikschroder|2 years ago

That depends.

In English, ¨ is a diacritic mark called diaeresis, which indicates that a vowel is distinct, and shouldn't be diphthongized or dropped: Coöperation, Noël, Brontë.

In German, ¨ is a diacritic mark called umlaut, which transforms the vowels A, O, and U into their umlauted versions: Ä, Ö, and Ü. These characters are not distinct letters of the German alphabet, but belong to a special weird in-between class.

In Swedish, ¨ is not a diacritic mark, does not have a name, and is simply an integral part of the letters Ä and Ö, which together with Å are distinct letters of the Swedish alphabet. The dots aren't modifiers, they're not optional, Ä is not sort-of-an-A, it's as distinct from A as any other vowel, and its pronunciation is closer to E than A.

draven|2 years ago

I had a german teacher insist we write umlauts as two little dashes instead of dots, because "they're not trémas" (French for diaeresis) which are written as two little dots. The wikipedia article above seems to say they're the same. Was I lied to all these years ?

29083011397778|2 years ago

That's pretty funny - makes me think it's less diaeresis (thanks! TIL) and more akin to the dot over a lower case i or j: A letter with distinct sounds that can't be written without the marking above it.

ska|2 years ago

I think OP's contention was that in Swedish these are not diacritical marks, but different letters.

Findecanor|2 years ago

I think the OP is splitting hairs. I'd say that they are just as much different letters in German, from which the word "Umlaut" comes. One is replaced with the other in word inflections. For instance, the noun "Land" is "Länder" in plural — both in German and Swedish.

But what the two dots are not: they are definitely not diaeresis.

pessimizer|2 years ago

I'm not sure if that's a distinction or a difference. "Ñ" is a completely different letter than "N", but that doesn't make "~" less of a tilde.

okamiueru|2 years ago

Indeed. The equivalent Norwegian letters are æ/Æ, ø/Ø, å/Å (in the correct order). And you wouldn't call those umlauts either.

bjoli|2 years ago

Only in languages where they are umlauts. Look at, for example, Ä and Umlaut-A: they have historically been written differently. They were simplified to mean the same thing in handwriting a long time ago, but as recently as in iso-8859-1 they made a conscious decision to merge them.

Unicode also makes a difference, but generally recommends the merged character.